Does anyone know the real story of the Israeli Hi Power imports?

[IMtheNRA]

I picked one up about ten years ago, when Aim Surplus had a bunch of Belgian Hi Powers that were surplused from Israel.

Like most, mine came with a holster, double mag pouch, and a single magazine. There seems to be some sort of a Mark-III type painted finish on this gun, with lots and lots of superficial scratches, but no dents or gouges down to the metal.

Once I removed the mag disconnect, it turned out the trigger on this pistol is perfect. Short, crisp, clean, not too heavy, and I think it has a 28-lb hammer spring installed, which helps the HP trigger a lot.

Serial number is 245NVxxxxx, imported by NHC in Sacramento, CA. I believe that stands for New Helvetia Company.

I really like the pistol, and I wish that I knew more about its history. Does anyone know who used these Hi Powers in Israel and when?

BTW - I just packed it up for a trip to the gun club tonight - as a direct result of typing this post.

 

[jonnyc]

The batch you are talking about came out of IDF surplus. Many had colored paint and tape ID marks for quick identification of fellow operators. The current batch of "Israeli" BHPs are out of police surplus stocks, and they got there via a wide range of sources.

 

[IMtheNRA]

Yep! I remember that colored tape - very clever.

Say - did I buy a set of Hogue finger groove HP grips from you via the Hi Power forum way back then?

 

[aliveisalive]

Wish I could find a cheap BHP for some customization thats for sure!

 

[rellascout]

The most recent ones sold for $350 to $500 depending on vintage and condition. IIRC correctly PW Arms was the most recent importer and from there the majority when to Roberstons. IIRC they are a mix of IDF and police guns. As others have noted they were often painted black in a less than perfect manner.

I pick one up from Dans ammo. It is was a MKII 1/2 in which is very common for the Isreali pistols. It has a ring hammer, ambi safety and the rib extending from the trigger guard on the lower end of the frame.

It is also marked with the Star of David. Here is mine. The black paint was stripped off and it was refinished in blue before I bought it for $400 or so.

 

[fallout mike]

Very nice rella, wish I had one.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

They were used by the Mossad obviously, you can find that out at gunshows.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

^^^

 

[Wags]

For other than rellascouts contribution, this thread is absolutely worthless without pictures. Here's my Israeli Hi-Power up to it's new recent addition of Novak sights & C&S strong side safety. I like the Star of David stamp rellascout! Really sets it apart from other BHP's.

 

[jonnyc]

The star with the letter Mem is a police marking, not IDF.

ImtheNRA, if I did, it was a long time ago. Can't recall ever having Hogues, but if I did it was early '90s and I didn't keep them for long.

 

[bofe954]

These around anywhere now?

 

[Black Butte]

Man, those are some nice Hi Powers for what seems like a very reasonable price.

 

[rellascout]

The star with the letter Mem is a police marking, not IDF.

Yes my particulare example is a police gun but there were others in the recent PW Arms importation that did not have the star of david and IIRC were IDF guns. Either way they were all bought in the same manner from FN over many years.

I have not seen any of these for over 6 months. There was a flood of them last year but it seems that they are all gone now.

If you wait it would not shock me to see some more pop up in forums when tax time comes around. That time of year is always hot for the used market. People selling to pay taxes people buying with tax refunds.

That said if you have the cash and are ready to pull the tigger keep and eye out on the auction sites & classifieds. I have purchase all of my BHPs for under $550 OTD including LNIB guns. You just have to be patient and time it right. Too many people over pay for BHPs. IMHO

 

[PabloJ]

I picked one up about ten years ago, when Aim Surplus had a bunch of Belgian Hi Powers that were surplused from Israel.

Like most, mine came with a holster, double mag pouch, and a single magazine. There seems to be some sort of a Mark-III type painted finish on this gun, with lots and lots of superficial scratches, but no dents or gouges down to the metal.

Once I removed the mag disconnect, it turned out the trigger on this pistol is perfect. Short, crisp, clean, not too heavy, and I think it has a 28-lb hammer spring installed, which helps the HP trigger a lot.

Serial number is 245NVxxxxx, imported by NHC in Sacramento, CA. I believe that stands for New Helvetia Company.

I really like the pistol, and I wish that I knew more about its history. Does anyone know who used these Hi Powers in Israel and when?

BTW - I just packed it up for a trip to the gun club tonight - as a direct result of typing this post.

The surplus US militaria net dealers and US gun show circuit is dumping ground for outdated military firearms of the world. While still viable for civilian use the BHP really shows it's age when put up against SIG 226 or Glock 19. That Browning design was antiquated by the famous Walther P-38.
PS. Not to rub salt in wound but it's most redeeming feature which is the hi-cap magazine was designed by a foreigner.

 

[rellascout]

The surplus US militaria net dealers and US gun show circuit is dumping ground for outdated military firearms of the world. While still viable for civilian use the BHP really shows it's age when put up against SIG 226 or Glock 19. That Browning design was antiquated by the famous Walther P-38.

I bet you think the 1911 is antiquated.... LOL

Someone should tell the British and Prince Harry....

 

[IMtheNRA]

Hello everyone, thanks a lot for the input.

Quick reminder to keep your posts on topic (see thread title). You can also start your own threads on anything else that you'd like to discuss

 

[mr.scott]

I just got an Feg from Sarco for $250. they had some Israeli hakeems for $300 and actual bhp for $350. Obviously for these prices they arnt going to wina beauty contest, but they are serviceable and mine hasa very nice trigger.

 

[IMtheNRA]

BTW - awesome pic of the Hi Power on Prince Harry!

 

[rellascout]

I just got an Feg from Sarco for $250. they had some Israeli hakeems for $300 and actual bhp for $350. Obviously for these prices they arnt going to wina beauty contest, but they are serviceable and mine hasa very nice trigger.

What rating were the $350 guns? Good condition? I heard that they were out of the VG. Did you see them in person or did you order blind through your FFL?

Did the Feg you got have a secondary import mark?

 

[KodiakBeer]

Note the pictures in Rellascouts post #5. There is a rib running forward from the trigger guard along the bottom of the frame. That rib is only found on a run of Israeli contract pistols purchased in the late 80's through the early 90's. That Israeli contract is the only Hi Power ever made with this rib, so if you see it you know exactly what you have. These are the "Mark II 1/2's" with features of both Mark II and Mark III Hi Powers.

Before and after that contract, the Israeli's just purchased whatever police/military pistols were in the FN pipeline at the time of purchase. They also bought FEG Hi Powers, captured an unknown quantity of Hi Powers from the Syrians (and others) and in the early days just bought any used or new commercial Hi Power they could lay their hands on. Many Israeli Hi Powers are stamped with the Star of David, but many are not.

The Israeli Hi Powers include every Hi Power ever made. Regardless of the background, these are police and military pistols that have mostly been carried a lot and shot little. The exteriors are often boogered up, but they've had armorer support and are generally fine shooters at good prices.

 

[IMtheNRA]

KodiakBeer, one of my Israeli HPs has the rib and an extended barrel bushing, which I really like, as it seems to do a good job protecting the muzzle.

The serial number is 245PPxxxxxx

The left side of the trigger guard has an M with a tiny five-pointed star above it, as well as the usual "flaming pineapple" proof mark.

There is an R stamped on the left side of the trigger guard.

Any idea what the R and M-star marks mean?

 

[KodiakBeer]

The PP in the code indicates 1988. The five pointed star, R, M, C, (and other letters) are various inspection marks from FN. They just signify the pistol has passed a certain inspection during the manufacture.