Does the transition from SA to DA shooting on hammer fired guns bother you?

[strambo]

To dry-fire practice the DA/SA transition, shoot the DA shot, keep the trigger to the rear and rack the slide. As you are racking the slide, allow the trigger to reset and then take up the slack but keep contact with the trigger at all times. Fire the SA shot.

Works better with a partner who puts one hand behind your shooting shoulder to stabilize and works the slide for you after you break the DA shot.

Though a DA/SA does have 2 trigger pulls, it only has one reset point and that stays the same for every shot.

Prepping the trigger by letting it go to just the reset point (with constant finger contact) and taking up slack during recoil is a big key to the transition as well as fast and accurate shooting with any trigger.

 

[Plan2Live]

Anyone ever heard of Sig Leg or Beretta Leg? Me neither.

 

[steves2]

I prefer hammer-fired handguns that are DA/SA. To me this is a safer option than SA only, cocked-and-locked. I can't stand semiauto a that are DA only for the consistent long and heavy trigger pull.
I find it easy to shoot the first round DA or pull back the hammer for a first shot SA.
I had one striker-fired gun, which I sold. I have some CZs, Walthers, a Makarov and a Sig that are DA/SA. I also have some SA .22s, and a couple of BHPs and a 1911.

 

[mgmorden]

I don't like DA/SA guns myself (really I just don't like double-action triggers in generall). I USED to not mind them back when I first got into shooting, but I've since changed my mind.

I voted that it messed up my shot, but basically for the first DA pull I have a choice:

1. I can shoot it just as accurately as the rest of the shots, but I have to pull the trigger slower. A potential sub 0.5 second trigger pull will need to become a 1.25-1.5 second trigger pull to achieve the same accuracy.

2. I can shoot it just as fast as the SA shots, but with worse accuracy.

I don't like making that tradeoff - particularly since most of my shooting for the last few years has been competition oriented - so I typically stray away from DA/SA guns.

In 9mm I still have a Ruger P95, Walther P1, SIG P6, and Beretta 92 that are DA/SA though. Used to have a CZ-75 as well. The CZ-75 trigger bothered me the least (with the Ruger P95 surprisingly coming in second), with the SIG P6 bothering me the most. I prefer my striker fired or single-action guns to all of them though.

 

[orionengnr]

Owned a few, in at least one case liked the gun (in theory) enough to have gone back and bought another (S&W 469) but really disliked the action enough to have sold it again.

I like my DA S&W revolvers, and I like my SA 1911s.

I even like my striker-fired-sort-DAO Kahrs.

I just don't like changing the trigger from one shot to the next.

So in summary... yeah, I guess it does.

 

[bannockburn]

Some DA/SA pistols, like I have experienced with most of the SIGs I have had, have a trigger that is more conducive to transitioning with the first DA shot. Others like the earlier S&W models, like the Model 39 and Model 469, didn't work as well for me.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

It depends. I believe it vitally important that the gun fits your hand so as to point naturally with your finger on the trigger at or near the "crease" of the first finger joint, and that the DA trigger not be excessively long or heavy. Either condition will result in the first, second or both shots being wide of the mark. My CZ75D Compact fits both of those bills. Some other guns like SIGs, 92-series Berettas and HK USPs do not, being much too large for my hands.

 

[jmr40]

I prefer SA or the striker fired guns such as Glock. But I can use DA/SA well enough. If I'm spending my money it will probably be Glock, but if I were working with a gun issued to me I'd be OK with DA/SA.

The only thing I really DON"T like are DAO triggers. I realize Glock and the Smith M&P are technically DAO, but it isn't really the same feel.

 

[45_auto]

Anyone ever heard of Sig Leg or Beretta Leg? Me neither.

Either you have been shooting a very short time, or have never been part of a military or law enforcement agency.

 

[JDR]

Depends on which carry condition you practice with using your CCW or EDC gun. If you can't or prefer not to carry in condition 1 ("cocked & locked"), you can practice using either carry condition 2 or 3;

From Carry Condition 3 ("Israeli Carry"), rack the slide out of the holster - this is less preferable IMHO.

From Carry Condition 2, thumb cock the hammer out of the holster - this is preferable IMHO, this is what I practice with my H&K P30

 

[JR24]

I used to generally prefer anything other than DA/SA since I preferred a consistent trigger pull. Then I bought my CZ P-07 and learned 2 things. 1. The safety is too small for me to carry cocked and locked (as I had intended) and 2. I don't mind the DA/SA on it.

Might be from shooting more DA revolvers lately but at the range I haven't noticed much difference in speed and accuracy working from the holster between the CZ and, say, my Glocks. I've gotten comfortable enough with it to carry and feel perfectly comfortable with the setup.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

Anyone ever heard of Sig Leg or Beretta Leg? Me neither.

Just because a cutesy name hasn't been given to it doesn't mean it can't happen. If you've fired even one shot from a DA/SA, you now have a cocked pistol in your hand.

 

[VThillman]

Not a big fan of DA but it really depends on the gun. The HK USP and CZ doesn't bother me but any S&W I have never been able to shoot well. I have an Astra that I have a fondness for but the DA trigger is horrible. I can still hit with it...sorta...but am screwed if an assailant is wearing body armor over his groin. Jeff Cooper had a funny take on the DA/SA trigger system. I don't know if he was trying to be funny as he otherwise seemed humorless but said something to the effect of the utility of a DA trigger was to use the first shot as a technique to cock the piece for SA firing.

The guy may not have laughed a lot, but he was capable of intentional irony. That's an example.

 

[Shipwreck]

I've gotten so used to Berettas over the years that I like DA/SA the best. I just bought an Hk P2000 a couple weeks ago. I don't mind the DA first shot, after getting so used to shooting this style of gun. I also practice shooting several mags all in DA for every shot to get used to it

 

[Zaydok Allen]

The reason this came up as a discussion point in my mind is based on a pm conversation I had with another THR member. I carry an HK45 on the trail at times, off the trail also while I'm beating around the bushes, and also keep that gun next to my bed for HD. While in my home the gun sits with a snap cap in the chamber so I can casually dry fire practice whenever. So if I need the gun, I wrack the slide quickly and I'm ready to go. In that scenario, the gun is in single action unless I decock it.

While hiking, I carry the gun chambered but decocked, so the first shot would be double action. Now the trigger pull is smooth, but extremely heavy. The discussion involved the notion of sending the gun to Gray's Guns for a trigger job as it apparently really improves the DA trigger pull as well as the overall operation of the gun.

However the single action trigger pull is pretty nice and breaks crisply. I am also capable of shooting the HK accurately in DA mode despite not really being a huge fan of the pull. I tend to be a "If it ain't broke don't fix it." kind of guy. The gun works fine. Last but not least, I can't help but be a little miffed at the fact that a $1000 gun needs a $300 trigger job too. So, I don't know what I'm going to do.

I'd really like to compare the HK to a Sig P227. Anyway, the conversation and thought process bread a little curiosity in me. I've heard all kind of different takes on the DA/SA trigger and its faults and merits. It's interesting to hear what others think.

 

[Chuck R.]

The reason this came up as a discussion point in my mind is based on a pm conversation I had with another THR member. I carry an HK45 on the trail at times, off the trail also while I'm beating around the bushes, and also keep that gun next to my bed for HD. While in my home the gun sits with a snap cap in the chamber so I can casually dry fire practice whenever. So if I need the gun, I wrack the slide quickly and I'm ready to go. In that scenario, the gun is in single action unless I decock it.

While hiking, I carry the gun chambered but decocked, so the first shot would be double action. Now the trigger pull is smooth, but extremely heavy. The discussion involved the notion of sending the gun to Gray's Guns for a trigger job as it apparently really improves the DA trigger pull as well as the overall operation of the gun.

However the single action trigger pull is pretty nice and breaks crisply. I am also capable of shooting the HK accurately in DA mode despite not really being a huge fan of the pull. I tend to be a "If it ain't broke don't fix it." kind of guy. The gun works fine. Last but not least, I can't help but be a little miffed at the fact that a $1000 gun needs a $300 trigger job too. So, I don't know what I'm going to do.

I'd really like to compare the HK to a Sig P227. Anyway, the conversation and thought process bread a little curiosity in me. I've heard all kind of different takes on the DA/SA trigger and its faults and merits. It's interesting to hear what others think.

I also have an HK45(T) and was not too thrilled with the DA pull. My solution was twofold, and cost a lot less than a $300 trigger job (probably the best solution though).

1. I dropped a set of HK match springs in it, about a 15 minute job total. That combined with dry firing smoothed things out nicely. You can also modify a USP match trigger to fit, thereby giving you an HK Match trigger. I stuck with the stock HK trigger and just changed the springs.

2. I converted it to V9 (SA safety, no de-cock) which allows me to ride the thumb safety after disengaging like a 1911 grip. I retain the DA/SA capability, but carry condition 1 cocked and locked.

I still don't prefer the DA/SA trigger, but I work with it to maintain the ability. I can shoot the exact same CoF with my HK45 is DA/SA and in SA only and see the difference on the clock and by scores. Is especially more pronounced if you start the CoF with a further distance target out of the holster.

Chuck

 

[HammsBeer]

The reason a lot of people don't like DA/SA, they simply don't put in the trigger time or understand HOW to shoot DA/SA. I regularly shoot a 14 lb DA Sig and this is what I've learned...


Don't stage the trigger, think of it as a trigger stroke, like rowing a boat.

Remember you only have to learn one reset point while shooting, not two.

Decock the pistol every time you come off target, even if it's only for a moment. Thumb the hammer while holstering. The decocking habit and the tactile feel of the hammer will prevent holstering a gun in SA mode.

 

[benEzra]

My EDC is a DA/SA (S&W 3913LS) and the transition doesn't bother me; I'd rather have one long, heavy pull and a bunch of short, light pulls than umpteen long, heavy pulls as you would with a DAO.

Having said that, I'm currently selling my full-sized DA/SA 5906, and I intend to replace it with a striker-fired FNS-9L with a manual safety. I like the DA/SA for a CCW, but for a full-sized all-around pistol, I think striker fired is just as good.

 

[Ankeny]

The reason a lot of people don't like DA/SA, they simply don't put in the trigger time or understand HOW to shoot DA/SA.

I put in the time and I still don't particularly care for crunch-n-tickers.

 

[D Rock]

I like to shoot all different types of pistols but most of my carry life I've shot DA/SA S&W 3913. Also love to shoot Beretta 92 series pistols.

Currently I'm rotating my Sig P938 SA which is no problem either.

Dave

 

[ritepath]

Where's the : "Only Glocks are real guns." option???

 

[Nom de Forum]

...... While in my home the gun sits with a snap cap in the chamber so I can casually dry fire practice whenever. So if I need the gun, I wrack the slide quickly and I'm ready to go. In that scenario, the gun is in single action unless I decock it. .......

Am I comprehending the above statement correctly as: you have a magazine loaded with live ammunition inserted in the pistol and a snap-cap in the chamber so you can practice dry-firing but be instantly ready to chamber a live round for self-defense? If my understanding of your statement is correct I really wish you would stop doing this because it really makes it easier to make a mistake that results in a negligent discharge.

 

[chris in va]

I don't care for the DA/SA transition, but it didn't preclude me from buying a P01. I simply installed a lighter hammer spring to reduce the pull force. It is my EDC so I didn't want to mess with anything else.

Now my 97b is a different matter. The DA reach was absurd so I converted it to SAO, a vast improvement. It's my competition gun and I do very well with it.

 

[Welding Rod]

Don't like... it is the SECOND shot that I wrestle with.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Where's the : "Only Glocks are real guns." option???

You will never ever see that option in one of my polls.

Glocks are fine, and tend to work, but that can be said of a lot of striker fired guns, many of which I like a lot more.