Dog Self-Defense

[Hammer059]

A real life situation made me start to wonder what the legal aspect would be. Please note: I'm NOT looking for advice on what to do, I'm just trying to find out whether or not I should expect legal trouble if I were to do this.

So say my dog is out in my yard and an unfriendly animal either looks like it's about to attack or starts to attack my dog. Examples would be another dog or wild or rabid animal. I wouldn't hesitate to intervene if it meant saving my dog's life, so whether or not it's legal wouldn't change my course of action. I simply want to know what to expect legally if another vicious animal attacks my dog on my property and I decide to shoot it.

I guess if it's attacking my dog, I could also argue that it was likely to also attack me also and I shot it in self-defense, which would be pretty reasonable.

Unfortunately I live in a suburban area so I'm not out in the country where I could just handle it myself; there's a chance someone would call the cops if they heard multiple gunshots outside.

Anyway, if you have any knowledge or experience regarding what the legal consequences of this would be (if there are any), I'd like to know. Thanks

 

[Snyper]

In most places it's legal to protect your property from injury or damage from animals.
The cops may respond but there "shouldn't" be any charges in what is a "defense" situation.

Most of the time the shooting must take place while the animal is "in the act" of causing damage or injury.

You can't shoot because they "look like they might do something"

Look up the ordinances specific to YOUR location

 

[Hammer059]

That sounds pretty reasonable. I guess a complication could be if someone's dog gets loose and it attacks my dog, then I shoot it and they want to press charges for killing fluffy. Still, I think I would be in the right (both legally and morally) in either scenario.

Just so we're clear here, just like in any self-defense scenario, I wouldn't pull my firearm unless it was the last option. And I'd rather it not come to that. But I've had a close call recently.

 

[BLB68]

Pepper spray will end an animal attack with a lot less hassle. Might be a good intermediate step between getting your hand chewed off and shooting an animal that's in a fight with yours. Safer for your dog, too.

 

[JERRY]

a lot really depends on the political climate of the state.

I've read where man shoots dog that was attacking his dog and was hailed a hero, while another was arrested on some ridiculous charge that was later dropped after a few court hearings.

if you live in a anti 2nd amendment venue, you might survive political criminal prosecution if you shot a dog that was attacking you after you tried to pull it off of your dog.

 

[Hammer059]

As mentioned, I wouldn't shoot unless I've exhausted all other options. I do have pepper spray in the house but I don't carry it on me and I wouldn't have time to run in and grab it.

Fortunately when this happened I was able to get in between the two dogs and a swift kick to the unfriendly one was enough to make it back off. If it hadn't backed off I could either choose to try and fend it off by hand/foot or try and shoot it. Obviously if there was a chance of me shooting my own dog I wouldn't shoot. It really would depend on the situation.

Honestly with health insurance it would be cheaper for me to get a few stitches from dog bites than taking my dog to the veterinary hospital. I'd rather take preventative action than try and let my dog handle it herself. She's not a fighter and doesn't distinguish between friendly vs unfriendly dogs.

 

[Hammer059]

Thanks for the input so far everyone. It's nice to know that if it ever came down to it I most likely wouldn't face any charges or legal action.

 

[Will-j]

Dog Attack

Hammer: In a rural area, PERHAPS not too much of a problem provided the animal is on your property. However, if you are in a residential or somewhat populated area, you might have a problem with discharging a firearm. Best to first check with authorities. If the dog is giving you trouble, then perhaps it's given someone else problems already and if so, then the proper personnel can handle it for you.
WILL.

 

[Hammer059]

Thanks Will, but if my dog is being attacked I'm not going have the chance to call the "proper personnel. I'm going to take action, whether it's a kick to the head, pepper spray, or using a firearm (as mentioned, last resort).

I'm gonna start keeping pepper spray on our enclosed porch, just so it's a little more accessible. Unfortunately it just isn't realistic for me to carry pepper spray everywhere. My pockets and belt are already overflowing most of the time.

As far as the specific incident that fortunately didn't escalate, I've informed the owners that if they don't fix their fence/gate and their dog gets out, they might not get it back.

 

[Tommygunn]

Hammer, I think Will meant for you to check with the authorities now, before any such incident happens so as to be prepared in case it does happen.
I think that is probably a good idea; I suggest contacting a lawyer who is familiar with that type of case law.

 

[Snyper]

You can likely find most of the information online by reading your state statutes and City ordinances.

In the majority of cases, it's legal to fire a gun to protect yourself or your animals even when there is a general restriction on discharging firearms.

Now is the time to get answers specific to your area, and ask for the statutes involved

 

[Crowcifier666]

Ask a lawyer in your area.

 

[DT Guy]

The way I view it, I wouldn't be shooting a dog to defend my dog; after I'd gotten between them to try and break it up, I'd be shooting to defend MYSELF if the dog continued aggression. That's how I'd view it, and that's how I'd explain it to the responding officers-"I went out to help my dog, when the aggressive animal TURNED ON ME, and I had to shoot to defend MYSELF."

I think this would put you on firm/firmer ground in nearly every jurisdiction.


Larry

 

[DeepSouth]

I know you said you weren't looking for advise, but I'm stubborn.

Living in a very rural area on dirt roads for most of my life, I've seen PLENTY of dog fights and I can honestly say I've never seen one in which I even remotely think I could have picked out a particular dog and shot it. If you shoot in to a dog fight there's almost no way you'll know which one you would hit. The idea of shooting into a dog fight is crazy unless your intending to kill them both.

One will win, the other normally walk of slightly injured, some dogs that have a lot of fight will need a vet. I have no legal advise other than to remind you the other dog may have an owner to, if you shoot his dog under any circumstances you could be in court, so the potential is always present.

As others have suggested.....pepper spray
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=768705

 

[j1]

If you do not feel like buying pepper spray buy a can of wasp and hornet spray which is advertised to go up to 20 feet. It WILL stop a dog I am sure.

Good thing you were spraying wasps when your dog was attacked too.

 

[TimSr]

A bucket of water will end most dog fights, and if you keep one outside for your dog, it will always be handy.

I agree with deepsouth in that most dog fights end when one decides to retreat. The exception is when one dog is very small, and the other is not, and when the larger dog is the agressor.

I also agree that once the dogs are fighting, its too late to shoot one of them, and your better choice would be to put a round in the ground, and SAY you were aiming at the other dog, which will also likely end the fight.

Nearly ever town has an ordinance against shooting. Very few would prosecute IF it were justified.

In the eyes of the law, pets are property, so you can only fire in a case where protecting property with a firearm is lawful.

 

[Japle]

My wife and I often take walks around the neighborhood and we've been bothered by dogs that act aggressive. My solution is a stun gun. A quick buzz and the dog always backs off, looking scared. Dogs don't seem to like the loud snapping sound and the bright, scary spark. They don't know what the hell it is, but they don't want any part of it.

I carry a gun, too, but the stunner has done the job every time and no one gets hurt.

 

[Snyper]

If you do not feel like buying pepper spray buy a can of wasp and hornet spray which is advertised to go up to 20 feet.

It WILL stop a dog I am sure.

So, how many dogs have you stopped with wasp spray?

Won't it also poison your own dog if they are fighting?

 

[coloradokevin]

From a strictly legal perspective, the answer to this question depends largely on where you live.

We don't often encounter this situation here in the city (as far as wild animals are concerned — save for coyotes in the fringe areas), but I've heard that it is usually seen like this:

1) You can shoot wild animals to protect livestock (cattle, etc).

2) You cannot shoot wild animals (out of season / without tags) to protect your domestic dog/cat.

3) You can shoot animals to protect yourself or another person.

4) You probably won't be prosecuted if it seems like you behaved reasonably in any of the above scenarios.

Articulation of the threat to yourself may be key in this situation. Or, as folks in more rural areas like to say: "shoot, shovel, shut-up" (though that's definitely not the legally advisable way to proceed).

As for a situation where another person's pet is involved in a fight with your pet, I think you're going to be under the microscope to a much greater degree. If your dog is in your yard when an at-large dog comes and attacks it, you're probably looking at the best case scenario for justifying your use of force. If you're out for a walk and some aggressive dog attacks your dog, maybe you could justify it. If you're at the dog park when your dog and another dog get into a fight, it's probably not going to go so well for you if you crank a few rounds into the other dog.

For whatever it's worth, I've encountered a lot of aggressive dogs during the course of my career. Both pepper spray and a Taser have produced favorable results against dogs who have come after me. For two dogs fighting with each other, I've had great luck with a big bucket of water. Honestly, in a full-on dog fight you'd probably have a hard time shooting one specific dog without a significant risk of hitting the other dog. When the dogs are REALLY fighting, these events tend to be furious and high-speed.

 

[kBob]

My last couple of dogs have had no need of a gun or other weapon for self defense, depending on size strength and teeth instead. Although, one of them was briefly armed with a repro Remington NMA (some folks call 'em 1858's) he carried on his yard patrols, neighbors talked about it for years......

;-)

-kBob

 

[g.willikers]

Most of the time the invading critter will be someone else's pet.
If it happens on your property, a garden hose spray up the snout works well.
If it happens off your property, then your dog might be considered the invader.
The use of deadly force will not be appreciated.
To avoid making enemies and the hassle of maybe being arrested,
Deadly force should probably be reserved for the wild and rabid ones.

 

[joem1945]

I've had two encounters with aggressive dogs. Once on a walk with wife and pet dog on leash and the other in my front yard. Both times I had my pistol out and aimed, finger on trigger when the owner called them back. Another second or two and I would have fired. I will not be bitten, no way no how nor will my wife or dog.

 

[herrwalther]

I asked a similar question of the local PD. There are tons of wild and neglected animals in my region. Some are quiet aggressive. When filing an anonymous complaint with my local police I asked if I could lethal shoot any animal on my property, aggressive or not. They were very adamant that I could, as long as I call them afterward for a police report and removal in the event of a civil matter. Haven't had to resort to lethal shooting the neighborhood animals yet, but they have been pelted with some BB warnings.

Ask your local PD for ordinances.

 

[Deanimator]

It depends ENTIRELY upon where you are.

In Ohio, you can shoot a dog to protect a human or LIVESTOCK (ie. cattle, sheep, chickens, etc.).

You CANNOT shoot a dog to protect another dog.

That having been said, there have been a number of instances since the passage of shall issue CCW here in which people have shot vicious dogs which attacked pets while in close proximity to their owners. I haven't seen one in which the owner protecting his or her dog was prosecuted.

At least in Ohio, the general rule is, "Don't want your dog shot? Keep it under your control (leashed or confined) and don't let it attack people or their pets."

 

[texasred777]

I won't mention the name of the town, but it was a suburb of Ft. Worth, Texas. I believe this was in 1973. I was continually having to clean up after the neighbor's dog turned over my trash cans and scattered it all over the yard. I tried everything within reason, even getting the tops to fit tightly. But the dog managed to get them open anyway. I came home one night about 9 p.m. and found my trash scattered all over the yard and the dog nosing through it. It ran back to it's house when I drove into the driveway. I immediately went to the police station and asked for a complaint form. The guy at the desk asked me what the complaint was about. I told him what was happening. I told him that I was going to file a complaint and this continued, I was going to shoot the dog. I was immediately and firmly told that if I fired a gun inside the city limits that I would be fined, possibly locked up.
I filled out the form. He looked at it and handed it back to me. He said I didn't want to file a complaint against these people. I asked why. He said they were 'bad' people, even suspected of two murders. I was still upset about the dog and told him to accept the complaint. I told him I had a gun and would defend my family and property. He took the form into another office and was gone about 3 or 4 minutes. The dispatch guy grinned, looked at me, and said if it was him, he would have already shot the dog.
The animal control people came out the next day. The neighbor woman yelled and cursed the people. The daughter was doing the same thing. The control people gave them a piece of paper and left. I suppose it was something telling them to keep the dog in it's own yard or some such. I never had another problem with the dog. The old woman cussed at me a time or two when I was out in the yard. I just laughed at her; and she just got madder. Turned out her husband had been dead for several months; so I didn't have to deal with him.