Dothan, Alabama LEOs are kids in candy store

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I threatened to file a civil rights violation in a federal court in my home
state (5 hours one way from the LEA in question) which would have required
them to appear in my home state before a federal judge.

My firearm was returned a week later and before my threatened filing
deadline.

Yes, this would have cost some money up front which I could have sued
the LEA for later --and won.
 
"After publication of an internal audit report characterizing the Dothan Police Department’s evidence locker as some police officers’ toy chest, Dothan Police Chief John Powell downplayed the situation, saying he was still looking into it. Despite his incomplete review, he stated no criminal action took place."
======================================================

The chief needs to be the first one booted out of the door, and if his wink-wink attitude toward official criminal conduct is not considered a problem by the city leadership then there is a definite problem with the city leadership that the voters in Dothan desperately need to address. I hope they get it done soon.

lpl/nc
 
Isn't there an indepent agency that should be investigating? (God forbid the BATF be useful to the citizens of the country...)

Just a hypothetical--say I know of someone in a position of authority that seems to have an overflowing gun safe (and otherwise living beyond their assumed normal salary). Is my just be suspicious enough to report that? And who would you even report that to?

Don't get me wrong--I like the police. I don't like crimminals. And you can't (shouldn't) be both!
 
This isn't particularly uncommon - there's an ongoing case in Hopewell (Va) regarding the evidence locker being more of a Stop'n'Shop. Anywhere you have people in priveleged positions, corruption will surely follow.

The funny thing is, people seem to question authority (in some respects) much more often now than in years past. So, was the problem even worse fifty or a hundred years ago, or have things been going downhill?
 
Powell stressed that the audit goes back many years and that many of the officers involved were not aware of the department's policy or that they were breaking those policies.

Funny, but I always though that ignorance of the law is no excuse. Guaranteed, if that was a civilian/sheeple, there would be a majorcase of SHTF. Stolen property is stolen property, regardless. You take something which does not belong to you, then you are guilty of theft. I don’t see any gray area about it.:cuss:

If the officers in question are guilty of this, they had better be prosecuted just like a normal person would be. If not, then a nasty precedent will be set: It‘s okay to brake the laws of the land, as you are above the law. I don‘t like that..
 
Dothan

I agreee that there were procedural errors all the way up to criminal acts. But if one of you gentlemen was ever charged with a crime you would clamor for ALL of the evidence to be examined before you were found to be guilty or innocent. No, actually the "law" doesn't say that all seized guns are to be destroyed. The method varies from department to department. In several departments permission has been granted for the agency to auction these guns off. Are they stealing? Of course not. As for "returning stolen guns" to the former owners...I have dealt with recovery of such guns and after the "former" owner has been bellyaching about getting his, or her, guns back I have found in some cases that the "owner" was compensated by the insurance company. So the gun really belongs to them. Who's the theif there? Could it possibly be, gasp, the former owner who has already been paid?? One certain thing. Without all of the facts, and a newspaper isn't a Bible just because it has pages with words on them, not one of us should rush in and condemn the entire Police Department.
 
I'm not willing to condemn the entire department. Apparently 75% had nothing to do with it. I am all for the remaining 25% being accorded their presumption of innocence until being found guilty by a jury of their peers. Just because they were ignorant of the law and lacked integrity is no reason not to charge them with their crimes and then let a jury decide. You know, as is done with non-LEO's.

I had a gun stolen and the insurance company paid off. It was so long ago that I don't even remember what insurance company. Tell you what, though...if my pre-WWII FN Hipower is ever recovered...I'll gladly return the pittance the insurance company paid. On the other hand, if I find that a law enforcement officer decided my recovered pistol looked better in his possession, I will do everything in my power to see him occupying a cell right next to the guy who stole it to begin with.
 
Dothan

I understand your concerns and share many of the same. I shall iterate...we out here in the world don't know the details yet...and may never unless some of us are called to jury duty.
As for your stolen pistol. I know that hurt. I'd hate to have it happen to me. BUT ! If your insurer pays off on the gun you might never be told it was recovered. Once they pay off you are no longer the owner...they are. And from my personal experiences I fear that what they paid you for your loss would not be acceptable to the insuror.
All that said...those guys in Dothan seem to be wrong completely.

"I am all for the remaining 25% being accorded their presumption of innocence until being found guilty by a jury of their peers."

Sounds to me like you've already tried these guys.
 
I'm not willing to condemn the entire department. Apparently 75% had nothing to do with it.
I imagine there are a number of officers in the 75% ranks who are thinking, "Boy, I sure am glad I didn't take anything." They may be 'innocent' of the pilfering, but they had knowledge of it.

Undoubtedly there are a few officers in the 75% ranks who are figuring out how they can take advantage of this. A one in three chance of promotion or better can be improved by anonymous tips of additional malfeasance.

Pilgrim
 
Why do certain THR members find themselves irresistibly drawn to defend or downplay alleged LEO criminal activity?

Would it make me a hypocrite if I were to say that I think people should not own televisions, and later get angry after learning that a police officer confiscated for his own personal use a recovered stolen television rather than return it to its rightful owner?

If I say a certain building is ugly should I not be allowed to be outraged if it is burned to the ground by an arsonist?

I could be anti-RKBA and still get angry about cops who take for themselves guns that belong to other people.
 
Be interesting to see if the newspaper editorial causes some shakeup via local politics. Depends on how much they push it, of course, along with noise from the pro-gun folks of Dothan.

Anybody here from around Dothan? Follow up, and give us a new thread in a week or three?

Pilgrim, you're making unwarranted assumptions, drifting OT toward bashing...

Art
 
Pilgrim, you're making unwarranted assumptions, drifting OT toward bashing...
How so? I taught classes for people interested in pursuing law enforcement careers. Included in my class presentations on corruption was a taped one hour television documentary on crooked cops in which corrupt cops in prison were interviewed. A common theme in those interviews was they did it because to them 'everyone' else was doing it, only they got caught.

Corruption in law enforcement, like any other career field, starts small and then gets larger and larger. It's the first violation of ethics that is difficult, then it becomes easier and easier and more pervasive. It thrives in an environment where co-workers look the other way. As one of the convicted cops in that television show said in his prison interview, "10% of the cops in (his) department were crooks, 10% were completely honest, and the rest wished they were honest."

Before I became involved in law enforcement, I got to know some truck drivers and become acquainted with the trucking industry. I was fascinated by the amount of pilferage that was taking place off of truck loads. It was called 'broken cases' and 'damaged packaging'. It was a way of life and it seemed everyone in the industry knew about it, but chose to look the other way.

Unwarranted assumptions on my part? No, just my life experiences and observations of several occupations and career fields.

Pilgrim
 
Dothan

"I imagine there are a number of officers in the 75% ranks who are thinking, "Boy, I sure am glad I didn't take anything." They may be 'innocent' of the pilfering, but they had knowledge of it." (Pilgrim)

You "taught" classes??? what did you teach them? Bigotry and ignorance? In the statement above you very clearly establish that your opinions aren't worth the paper you wipe with.
I hope I don't offend you.... Clearly you feel that you are the only person who is empowered by omniscience to the degree that you can offend others.
It is, Mr. Moderator, far beyond bashing. It is spiteful and loathsome and is something I never thought to see on the High Road. I have called for patience and open mindedness regarding the Dothan, Alabama situation. I have extended respect to all other's ideas.
I regret that I shall withdraw from the "High Road" as it no longer seems to be so.
Bash on, gentlemen. You are clearly at home with your own kind.
 
In defense of Pilgrim

I've read (and just reread) what Pilgrim wrote, and see nothing like bashing -- if anything, he's being restrained by a) accepting at face value the idea (which seems laughable to me) that 75% of the Dothan officers were neither involved in nor cognizant of this ongoing theft and b) even for the other 25%, affording them the presumption of innocence even as an observer (remember, that's a legal right of the accused, not a requirement for the general public to strain its credulity) despite seemingly clearcut evidence that there was some serious hankypanky going on in the Dothan evidence room.

I wonder how many of the guns that went missing belonged to people whose guns shouldn't have been taken in the first place.

Not to seem too strident, I could see this situation much differently if the evidence room's "fun" contents were converted to the benefit of the police force (nominally the good guys, and I'll join in with Pilgrim's magnaminity -- hey, that might even be a real word! -- by assuming that that's the case here, that Dothan's finest really are something close to Dothan's finest) under some better-designed system. For instance, a policy that firearms in the evidence room which have been carefully photographed, chronographed, forensically fingerprinted, etc, to the extent that could reasonably be expected to prove useful in court, *and* have been there for more than 24 months (or some other reasonable figure), *and* are in calibers in common use in the department, could be scrupulously checked out as backup weapons to active duty or retired officers of the department.

I'm certainly anything but a police officer; perhaps that idea is so wrong it's not even worth rebutting, but heck, from here is seems sort of reasonable. That is, the problem here (as I see it) is not that guns were taken from an evidence room, but that this happened willy nilly, with no respect for the rightful owners, for evidentiary value, or for the orderly and efficient administration of justice. Ahem.

timothy
 
I have called for patience and open mindedness regarding the Dothan, Alabama situation. I have extended respect to all other's ideas.
I regret that I shall withdraw from the "High Road" as it no longer seems to be so.
Bash on, gentlemen. You are clearly at home with your own kind.

Lighten up, Francis.

This is not a report from some outside interest group. It's from an "internal audit." Internal means that the department itself conducted this investigation, and they decided that it was appropriate to say that 25% of the department was taking stuff that doesn't belong to them.

The simple observation that if 25% of the department is stealing stuff from the evidence lockers, then there must be a lot more than 25% who knew about it is not bashing, nor does it warrant anybody taking their ball and going home in a huff. If you want to leave, fair enough, but don't expect THR to be run differently because you make the threat.
 
You "taught" classes??? what did you teach them? Bigotry and ignorance? In the statement above you very clearly establish that your opinions aren't worth the paper you wipe with.
I taught them that corruption starts with little transgressions, and when those aren't punished one goes on to bigger things. I taught them that ethics means doing the right thing when no one is watching. I taught them that nothing is worth lying about, even the smallest matter, to make sure a crook goes to prison. I also taught them that the only things that appear in the newspaper about them should be things they are proud to have their children brag about in school, not that they had to take the fifth amendment while being questioned in court.

Pilgrim
 
Sounds to me like you've already tried these guys.

If I had, then wanting them to have their day in court, with the presumption of innocence intact, and a verdict to be decided upon by a jury would be rather redundant, wouldn't it?

So many police officers don't get it. And it is harming them. The urge to not wash the dirty laundry in public and to shield colleagues if possible is natural. It is a road to public mistrust by any profession. Police officers need to ask themselves when faced with such situations,"Would we rather shield these officers from prosecution for crimes allegedly committed or have them prosecuted and maintain public trust in our profession?'
 
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