DammitBoy
Member
Usually.
dpms vs. s&w mp 14
- Thread starter zk85
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hardluk1
member
But don't you have a sportical now
Al Thompson
Moderator Emeritus
S&w imho. 
ugaarguy
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What specific 3-9 power scope? What specific QD rings. There's a wide margin of difference between a 3-9 Barska, and a 3-9x40 Nikon ProStaff. There's also a huge difference between NC Star QD rings, and Leupold or Warne QD rings. You can new GI mags for under $10 each from places like Palmetto State Armory.
It's far more than just bbl. twist. A 1:9 twist barrel will not shoot light bullets any better than a 1:8 twist. A 1:8 twist bbl can shoot slightly heavier (longer technically) bullets than a 1:9 twist. That's also ignoring that DPMS uses traditional 6 land & groove button rifling vs. S&W's more expensive, and better, 5R rifling - that 5 land & groove rifling with radiused lands, hence the name 5R. You're also ignoring the unlined, untreated bore in the DPMS, vs. the Melonited (nitrided) bore on the S&W which increases surface hardness, reduces friction, is highly corrosion resistant, and increases bbl. life to near chrome lined levels. That's all before we even get into the higher quality parts & better assembly on the rest of the rifle.
These are not assumptions. I've sold both DPMS and S&W at a fairly high volume dealer. I've owned a 5.56 DPMS carbine. I've owned other S&W M&P15 carbines, and still own a Sport. I also own a DPMS LR-308, and from experience these rifles don't suffer the parts & assembly problems common to DPMS AR-15 pattern rifles.
DammitBoy
Member
No. As I stated earlier, I'd never own a sportical.
In .223 I own a Colt HBAR-15 match grade target, and a Bushmaster Carbon-15 P97S. In .308 I own a DPMS RFLRT-SASS with an 18" barrel.
I paid $1000 each for the Colt and the Bushmaster. I paid a little over $1700 for the DPMS.
I prefer the DPMS, especially with the few extras like the JP trigger, the flip-up sights and the chrome bolt carrier.
hardluk1
member
DamditBoy I guess someone has to buy what they feel is best of the best rifle for there intended purpose. I look at the expensive ar rifles like I would any firearm. If what they hype does not show its better for my intended purpose I don't need it. If you feel you need chrome and carbon or a brand name and need to spend 2/3rds more dollars for it ,,you got it. Kinda like the guy that buys a springfield range officer 1911 , would you would say they should spend twice as much for a,, ,what.kimber or DW or ?? Does not mean it will do anything better for the normal guy .
DammitBoy
Member
Complete nonsense. I buy the best bang for my buck instead of buying the cheapest thing I can afford. It simply means saving a little longer and being smarter about your purchase.
$1000-$1700 is not in anyway anywhere near going dollar crazy on a spendy AR system. You can easily blow $4000+ on the top end factory AR's these days.
It's not at all comparable to your comparision to a Range Officer Springfield, Kimbers or Dan Wesson 1911's.
The last thing I am is a brand name buyer. If I was, I'd own a LMT, a Sigsauer, and a Les Bauer. I don't.
What I do own works well for a reasonable dollar spent.
hardluk1
member
I don't care what you own. Or if you bought it well or not. Oh by the way you did not buy the pistol well. The other 2 are good for new priceing. If i wanted a costlier AR I would have ordered one. And the 1911 is a real compairison. If you need the other frills you have be happy.
Some of us are going to want a more basic AR , not allways a cheaper AR for plinking but a BASIC AR for, coyote hunting teach the grandkids about centerfire rifles or just for the heck of it a little pig or deer hunting. Not many are going to play in a desert or mud puddles and need a full on milspec rifle ether . I now yours ain't mil-spec. Most just don't need the few extras you think are a requierment, for the extra price.
When I watch a guy at the range shooting a rock river 24" varment upper and pieced to gether lower with 850 dollars total in it shoot 200 yards with.550 or smaller groups. Why would i spend more than that if I wanted accurate. Or why would i spend more for chrome bore and bolt and other frills. He's had the RRV for 1 1/2 years with zero issues.
A buddy bought one of the m&p sports back some where round april or may and has run almost 2000 rounds thru it, he has a range at his house. He is not new to ar's ether with only 40 years of shooting them and likes the rifle for its price and has some darn fine ones. I have shot it and like the accuracy for a short barrel and he said it works as well as the pricers ars that he has.
Is it you just can't get over the fact that the dpms sportical or the m&p sport might be worth while for some shooters.
Some of us are going to want a more basic AR , not allways a cheaper AR for plinking but a BASIC AR for, coyote hunting teach the grandkids about centerfire rifles or just for the heck of it a little pig or deer hunting. Not many are going to play in a desert or mud puddles and need a full on milspec rifle ether . I now yours ain't mil-spec. Most just don't need the few extras you think are a requierment, for the extra price.
When I watch a guy at the range shooting a rock river 24" varment upper and pieced to gether lower with 850 dollars total in it shoot 200 yards with.550 or smaller groups. Why would i spend more than that if I wanted accurate. Or why would i spend more for chrome bore and bolt and other frills. He's had the RRV for 1 1/2 years with zero issues.
A buddy bought one of the m&p sports back some where round april or may and has run almost 2000 rounds thru it, he has a range at his house. He is not new to ar's ether with only 40 years of shooting them and likes the rifle for its price and has some darn fine ones. I have shot it and like the accuracy for a short barrel and he said it works as well as the pricers ars that he has.
Is it you just can't get over the fact that the dpms sportical or the m&p sport might be worth while for some shooters.
hardluk1
member
ugaarguy & popper Thanks for your open minded input.
DammitBoy
Member
The fact of the matter is that the "best of the best" goes for over $3000 and easily into the $4000 range.
Spending 1/4th of that amount is not excessive or unreasonable or akin to buying a Dan Wesson or a Kimber.
Your analogy is flawed from the outset. I never said the $700-$800 rifles didn't work or were not worth the money you spent on them. So please refrain from putting words in my mouth.
My contention from the outset is that by spending $200-$300 more, you get a better rifle.
hardluk1
member
There you go again ,spend what is now 2 or 300 more . It was 3 or 400 more and the m&p 15 sport can be bought all day for under 600. Not 700 or 800. Keep your facts straight. And like i said, be happy with yours and I am sure some of us have no need for a 9- to 1000 dollar ar.
ugaarguy
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DammitBoy, based on experience with DPMS & Oly $600 price point rifles I used to agree with you about spending a little more. Then the M&P15 Sport came out, I looked at the specs, and I bought one as an inexpensive backup to my DD.
Spend $25 to get double heat shielded handguards on the Sport, and you essentially have a top tier rifle without a dust cover & forward assist. Heck, there are some top tier components like the VLTOR MUR that don't have a forward assist. If you absolutely need to keep dust out of the action I've posted the link to the Safe-Port already. That takes us to the bbl. It's not a 1:7 twist, hard chromed tube made from Mil-B-11595E certified 4150 steel. Yes, it's 4140 steel. But the T/C Arms manufactured tube 1:8 twist 5R rifling and Melonite (Black Nitride) treatment are a mean counter punch to the Mil Spec bbl. Both S&W and LWRC use H&M Metal Processing for their Black Nitride. LWRC has claimed that their testing has shown their black nirtrided bbls to outlast Mil Spec hard chromed bbls. Before the T/C Icon & Venture bolt guns hit the market you only saw 5R rifling on high end Remington tactical & target bolt guns, or custom rifles. I'd call the barrels a push.
As I've said here before, that's why I'm a Sport advocate. If another manufacturer turns out an equivalent or better AR for $600 I'll tout it too. As much as I like my DD, it's hard to argue against the Sport on features alone - even harder when price is factored in.
Spend $25 to get double heat shielded handguards on the Sport, and you essentially have a top tier rifle without a dust cover & forward assist. Heck, there are some top tier components like the VLTOR MUR that don't have a forward assist. If you absolutely need to keep dust out of the action I've posted the link to the Safe-Port already. That takes us to the bbl. It's not a 1:7 twist, hard chromed tube made from Mil-B-11595E certified 4150 steel. Yes, it's 4140 steel. But the T/C Arms manufactured tube 1:8 twist 5R rifling and Melonite (Black Nitride) treatment are a mean counter punch to the Mil Spec bbl. Both S&W and LWRC use H&M Metal Processing for their Black Nitride. LWRC has claimed that their testing has shown their black nirtrided bbls to outlast Mil Spec hard chromed bbls. Before the T/C Icon & Venture bolt guns hit the market you only saw 5R rifling on high end Remington tactical & target bolt guns, or custom rifles. I'd call the barrels a push.
As I've said here before, that's why I'm a Sport advocate. If another manufacturer turns out an equivalent or better AR for $600 I'll tout it too. As much as I like my DD, it's hard to argue against the Sport on features alone - even harder when price is factored in.
DPMS
if your pressed about the barrel,firelap it and coat the chamber&bore with Militec-1. Would be hard to outfire that barrel. Extra twist rate this and rifling that is all well, and, probably very accurate info and I still put 5 rds 1M.O.A. off sand with factory rounds.
if your pressed about the barrel,firelap it and coat the chamber&bore with Militec-1. Would be hard to outfire that barrel. Extra twist rate this and rifling that is all well, and, probably very accurate info and I still put 5 rds 1M.O.A. off sand with factory rounds.
JustinJ
Member
Please tell me who sells a factory AR for $4k.
gennro
Member
I own a S&W MP15 and it is a fantastic rifle for the money I paid 742 dollars for mine from a local dealer. I use a 1" riser on mine and it is perfect for me. The dust cover or forward assist isn't needed for normal range use/hunting. The 1:8 twist allows the gun to shoot 50 to 80 grain bullets without issue. I have shot M16A2s in the military and I like this gun much better. The trigger is a good clean break, I know from the DPMS rifles I own the DPMS LR308 which has a terrible trigger, and has a small amount of creep. Anyways that is my 2 cents of this gun.
mdauben
Member
I've never shot a DPMS but I bought a MP15 Sport earlier this summer and have nothing but good things to say about it. I had been prepared to spend over $1000 for my first AR but I admit the fact that my FLGS had the Sport on sale for less than $600 carried the day.
The more I read about the gun and the more I shoot it, the happier I am with my decision. I don't think you will regret it if you buy a Sport.
The more I read about the gun and the more I shoot it, the happier I am with my decision. I don't think you will regret it if you buy a Sport.
DammitBoy
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ugaarguy
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DB, the most expensive LMT is $3400 MSRP, and it's a .308 based rifle, which isn't comparative to the smaller & less expensive 5.56 rifles. FN doesn't sell AR-15 type rifles to US civilians. The SCAR may look like an AR to some, but it's own its own thing. The HK MR556 (US civvy version of the 416) sells for under $3k street. Like most HK products, it's grossly overpriced. I've yet to see a $4k Les Baer AR-15. The one LWRC that I can find available is $1600 for an M6 in 6.8 SPC. Their REPR might be $4k, but again that's getting into a bigger .308 frame, and isn't comparative to the 5.56 rifles being discussed in the context of this thread. The Noreen AR style rifle in .338 Lapua Mag is getting way outside the context of standard 5.56 ARs. JP maxes out at $3300 MSRP for their .308 based rifle. Yes, they do a $2k MSRP 5.56 LE rifle, but it comes with DVD, Kyle Lamb VTAC sling, high end BUIS set, etc.
rem22long40x
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- 111
If I were to bie a new black rifle it would be a Stag Arms , but I like my Colt SP1 Carbine made in the late 60s .
DammitBoy
Member
The question was who sells an AR for 4k. I answered based on msrp as stated in gunguides and online for any AR. Sales tax would easily put many AR's selling in the 3k range into the 4k range.
Your results may vary. In the context of this thread I'll concede it's more likely that the highest priced 5.56 AR's are in the 3k price range.
fpdsniper
Member
There are TONS of really good used AR's out there for sale. Don't spend less money on a new "budget" model when you could spend the same amount on a slightly used, nice gun.
JustinJ
Member
Thats actually still too high. I don't believe there is a single factory 5.56 AR out there above $3K even with tax.
DammitBoy
Member
2ndtimer
Member
FWIW, I picked up a new S&W M&P15 Sport a couple of months ago for $599 + tax at the local hardware store where my oldest son works. They had just gotten them in and he showed it to me. Then he told me the price, and I decided the time had come for me to get my first AR style rifle. I had been planning on having my dealer order me a Stag Arms Model 6 Super Varminter with the 24" stainless barrel and 2 stage competition trigger, but I just couldn't pass up the M&P 15 Sport. I haven't put that many rounds through it, but it has been 100% reliable thus far, and seems to be pretty accurate for an open sight 16" barrel.
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