Wesson Smith
Member
No offense intended, but you seem to be a little snakebit when it comes to firearms stuff.
DSA SA58 FAL - had it a couple weeks and really not impressed
- Thread starter marktx
- Start date
- Status
ny32182
Member
I think you should cut it up. Just think, you could be internet famous, like those guys that smash iPhones.
Not really considering the quantities I buy.... other than this FAL I would say that my luck has been remarkably good. I have come across some incredible deals on excellent guns. Just bought a Kimber Custom II with tritium night sights added on for $500 from a guy I know, it has some slight holster wear but is barely used. Picked up a Dragunov Tigr for $800 not long ago and I can't say enough good things about it although spare mags are silly expensive.
I don't even know what to do with the AK mags other than having lubed them up. Best I can tell is that maybe the body is slightly tweeked, the one does have a small dent in the side. Not really worth shipping them back and I don't think it would be right to sell them to some sucker at a gun show. You would need a mandrel or something to fix them if they are tweaked.
Already am internet famous in another life.... Gotta admit that the iPhone in blender is amusing.
I have no personal involvement with DSA or any of its products, and am not interested in serving as their apologist. That said, for the prices charged, it should not really come as a surprise that their FN clones are "second-rate" and require some home-gunsmithing to function properly.
When purchasing firearms, we usually tend to get what we pay for.
Huh?
Please tell me if I've got this right:
(1) You don't like the rifle;
(2) Other people, who presumably know about the problems you've been experiencing, are prepared to pay cash to take it off your hands;
(3) Rather than cutting your losses, you prefer to wreck the rifle.
I respectfully disagree. An original Belgian-manufactured FN-FAL, or one of the Commonwealth military-production service rifles, is a good piece of kit that is capable of 2 MOA accuracy, and can usually be tuned to 1 MOA. It is not an incredibly-sturdy-but-inaccurate rifle like the AK-47.
Clones and parts guns, well, anything goes.
rubicon923
Member
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2009
- Messages
- 28
"For the prices charged"?
The current price on a base SA-58 is $1700 with nicer models in the $2000 to $3000 range. Why should a gun in this price range require home gun smithing to function properly?
I saw a post not long ago from a range instructor who sees lots of 308 battle rifles. His observation is that DSA FALs are more problematic than their reputation would indicate.
This observation matches my own experience with DSA FALs. I own 3 of them. Two I bought new and one I bought used. Both new rifles had to be returned to DSA with less than 500 rounds through them. My SA58 carbine developed hammer follow. My Stg58 standard failed on the first round that I fired out of it! The bolt stuck in the rearmost position. I was able to reproduce the failure by yanking on the charging handle.
None of my AKs that cost 1/3 of what the FALs cost have had to be returned.
My experience with DSA has been inconsistent. I have some good experiences with them and some poor experiences. I understand your frustration in paying top dollar for a rifle with problems that it shouldn't have. With the ejector problem, you really should send the rifle back to DSA. DSA should have never sold you a rifle with that kind of problem, but they did. My FFL ships back defective guns to manufacturer at no cost to me. In a few weeks, you'll probably have a rifle that works.
There's no free lunch
As modern automatic rifles go, the FN-FAL is a somewhat complex design, with lots of machined parts. It is not a stamped-out, mass-produced thing. It costs a fair bit to produce.
25 years ago, new semi-auto FN-FALs sold for $2,000. Taking subsequent inflation into account, that would now probably be approx. $5,000. Yet clones are currently being offered for less than $2,000, in depreciated 2009 dollars. A few corners are inevitably being cut, to keep the prices down.
By way of analogy: best-quality Mauser-actioned H&H magazines rifles are known for their superb quality, reliability and finish ... and their high prices. Indeed you can still order one today, and it will cost well north of $10,000. Or you can buy a CZ-550 for between $700 and $2,500. It will be superficially the same as an H&H product but will require considerably work to bring it up to the same standards. That doesn't mean that CZs are a bad deal, just that corners have been cut. Some gunsmithing TLC will improve them, and I presume would improve DSA's products too.
I do agree that $1,700 is still a fair bit of money (especially relative to what it will buy in a bolt-action rifle). For that amount, a purchaser should expect to receive a firearm that is safe and functions, more or less. But he shouldn't be surprised if there are a few rough edges that need to be rounded off.
As modern automatic rifles go, the FN-FAL is a somewhat complex design, with lots of machined parts. It is not a stamped-out, mass-produced thing. It costs a fair bit to produce.
25 years ago, new semi-auto FN-FALs sold for $2,000. Taking subsequent inflation into account, that would now probably be approx. $5,000. Yet clones are currently being offered for less than $2,000, in depreciated 2009 dollars. A few corners are inevitably being cut, to keep the prices down.
By way of analogy: best-quality Mauser-actioned H&H magazines rifles are known for their superb quality, reliability and finish ... and their high prices. Indeed you can still order one today, and it will cost well north of $10,000. Or you can buy a CZ-550 for between $700 and $2,500. It will be superficially the same as an H&H product but will require considerably work to bring it up to the same standards. That doesn't mean that CZs are a bad deal, just that corners have been cut. Some gunsmithing TLC will improve them, and I presume would improve DSA's products too.
No offense meant.
But I grew up in Singapore and in the Scouts, they used the Brit inch models for drill. Once in a while they would be taken out and shot. They were excellent rifles when properly maintained but accuracy was around 2 moa on the best of days by the best shots.
When I was deciding on which to get for a battle rifle, I settled on a DPMS LR 308 TAC 20. It is their model with the 20 inch barrel. I paid $980 for it including 2 magazines.
I decided on it because I could not afford a DSA FAL rifle and the M14 or M1A can be expensive as well and difficult to maintain while keeping a modicum of accuracy. In the past I had purchased an M1A put together by Clint McKee at Fulton Armory and paid $2000 for it. Keeping that gilt edge was expensive and time consuming. I had a Krieger match barrel 1 in 10. That rifle would shoot .8 to 1 moa with 168 grn. Sierra Match boat tail bullets. I sold it for $3000 because I needed the money.
However, this time around, I decided on a DPMS TAC 20 because of the inherent accuracy of the AR design and the heavy barrel lent itself to consistent 1 moa with not FTFeed, FTEject, and FTFunctions. I have been shooting Fed Match as well as Lake City Match from the late 1960s and early 1970s. I am glad I did not get a DSA FAL.
I am indeed sorry for your frustrations. To my mind though, it is worth more selling something so expensive rather than abusing it in a fit of pique.
But I grew up in Singapore and in the Scouts, they used the Brit inch models for drill. Once in a while they would be taken out and shot. They were excellent rifles when properly maintained but accuracy was around 2 moa on the best of days by the best shots.
When I was deciding on which to get for a battle rifle, I settled on a DPMS LR 308 TAC 20. It is their model with the 20 inch barrel. I paid $980 for it including 2 magazines.
I decided on it because I could not afford a DSA FAL rifle and the M14 or M1A can be expensive as well and difficult to maintain while keeping a modicum of accuracy. In the past I had purchased an M1A put together by Clint McKee at Fulton Armory and paid $2000 for it. Keeping that gilt edge was expensive and time consuming. I had a Krieger match barrel 1 in 10. That rifle would shoot .8 to 1 moa with 168 grn. Sierra Match boat tail bullets. I sold it for $3000 because I needed the money.
However, this time around, I decided on a DPMS TAC 20 because of the inherent accuracy of the AR design and the heavy barrel lent itself to consistent 1 moa with not FTFeed, FTEject, and FTFunctions. I have been shooting Fed Match as well as Lake City Match from the late 1960s and early 1970s. I am glad I did not get a DSA FAL.
I am indeed sorry for your frustrations. To my mind though, it is worth more selling something so expensive rather than abusing it in a fit of pique.
stubbicatt
Member
Sounds like you got a roach there.
Feel like revisiting the rant on American made rifles, none of which have worked correctly for me, out of the box, in the last 10 years. All had to be returned or fettled to get them to work. Perhaps I am snakebit too...
But then, so would be all my buddies. All of whom had the Rohrbach (sic?) pistol jam up on them....
Nah... the situation is that American manufacturers are not producing properly spec'd weapons and they ship them hoping not to get a return.
Feel like revisiting the rant on American made rifles, none of which have worked correctly for me, out of the box, in the last 10 years. All had to be returned or fettled to get them to work. Perhaps I am snakebit too...
But then, so would be all my buddies. All of whom had the Rohrbach (sic?) pistol jam up on them....
Nah... the situation is that American manufacturers are not producing properly spec'd weapons and they ship them hoping not to get a return.
Deer Hunter
Member
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2005
- Messages
- 4,097
They guy got a lemon. Every gun company throws them now and again. Yes, it sucks, but things like this happen. I paid less than 900 dollars formy STG58 and it has never given me any problems whatsoever, and it's a solid 2 MOA rifle with good ammo and great shooting.
Also, FALs are not hard to maintain... Pretty easy actually.
Head on over to FAL files to see their opinion on DSA.
Also, FALs are not hard to maintain... Pretty easy actually.
Head on over to FAL files to see their opinion on DSA.
Got the rifle back..... I called and talked to DSA a bit and they were able to expedite things a bit to help me out. After my more recent conversations my impression of their customer service is much improved
After giving the rifle a short inspection they did a very nice job of replacing the ejector block and the thing looks better than new. When I first got it when new the receiver had a small brass mark on it, presumably from test firing, and it had a few more when I sent it in along with some brass marks in the mag feed lip area. At first I thought they might have sent a whole new receiver stamped with the same s/n but after looking at my pictures and comparing tool marks inside the receiver it appears to be the same. My current hypothesis is that they either did an incredible job cleaning it or simply re-parkerized the receiver.
Haven't got a chance to shoot it yet but so far it looks good..... it came back with the gas port set to 4 and I'm hoping it works well that way.
After giving the rifle a short inspection they did a very nice job of replacing the ejector block and the thing looks better than new. When I first got it when new the receiver had a small brass mark on it, presumably from test firing, and it had a few more when I sent it in along with some brass marks in the mag feed lip area. At first I thought they might have sent a whole new receiver stamped with the same s/n but after looking at my pictures and comparing tool marks inside the receiver it appears to be the same. My current hypothesis is that they either did an incredible job cleaning it or simply re-parkerized the receiver.
Haven't got a chance to shoot it yet but so far it looks good..... it came back with the gas port set to 4 and I'm hoping it works well that way.
Hostile Amish
member
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2008
- Messages
- 522
Why not try factory ammo? Seems like you used only surplus. I fired about 500 rounds through a borrowed DSA from a friend with only 2 or 3 jams.
I agree on the scope mount, though.
I agree on the scope mount, though.
I did try some new Federal soft points through it but at that point the thing was basically a single shot. When I first started shooting it I figured military FMJ was what it was designed for originally and would work best. Not many people complain about either Radway Green or good German ammo and all my experiences have been positive so I figured it would be a good choice. After looking at the ejector I don't think ammo was any factor.
Ugh..... I will be upset if that is as good as it gets. My PTR91 has NEVER jammed in several thousand rounds, most of that being South African surplus that has a reputation for clogging up the flutes on that type rifle.
jpwilly
Member
You did the right thing.
I've always liked the look of the FAL but not the heft. Everytime I pick one up I wonder where they hid the lead bars.
AmEngRifles
Member
Marktx, hope your returned rifle will give you better service.
I wanted to add something. I noticed in your photos that the rifle looked VERY dry. This may have been from you cleaning AFTER your shooting sessions, but I did notice it. I believe you said something about using RemOil on it. I would definitely recommend in the initial stages to liberally oil the bolt carrier and the bolt carrier tracks in the receiver. Also, the action spring on yours is in the upper. Be sure to get oil on any of these reciprocating parts. I am sure you know this. It just caught my eye that your rifle looked like it had NO oil on it at all.
Hoped that what DSA did will have done the trick.
I wanted to add something. I noticed in your photos that the rifle looked VERY dry. This may have been from you cleaning AFTER your shooting sessions, but I did notice it. I believe you said something about using RemOil on it. I would definitely recommend in the initial stages to liberally oil the bolt carrier and the bolt carrier tracks in the receiver. Also, the action spring on yours is in the upper. Be sure to get oil on any of these reciprocating parts. I am sure you know this. It just caught my eye that your rifle looked like it had NO oil on it at all.
Hoped that what DSA did will have done the trick.
- Status
