EAA Windicator
- Thread starter SIGfiend
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Underappreciated
I got the chance to see one in person and it was pretty darn nice. Fixed sights that are virtually impossible to break (the ones on my smith broke from a short drop).
only thing I didn't like was the tough cylinder release switch and the heavy weight.
my metallurgy isnt too good, does anyone know which is heavier, zinc or steel?
I got the chance to see one in person and it was pretty darn nice. Fixed sights that are virtually impossible to break (the ones on my smith broke from a short drop).
only thing I didn't like was the tough cylinder release switch and the heavy weight.
my metallurgy isnt too good, does anyone know which is heavier, zinc or steel?
Freidrich Pickert of the Zella-Mehlis region used the Arminius trade name until 1940 if anybody needs clarification on that matter.
Walther had absolutely no connection with him.
Sauer and Sohn has not used the Herters trade name for any product they have marketed.
None that I am aware of or have ever handled anyway.
Herters was a large trading firm however, it wouldn't be beneath them to market a revolver such as the Rohm RG with a mispelled and surious 'Saur' trade name stamped on the gun along with or including a Herters stamp mark.
Herters did in fact import and market Weihrauch revolvers with the Herters name stamped on them and examples can still be found.
Picture reference can be made in pre 1970 Gun Digest catalog sections. HTH
I'm not trying to slap down Weihrauch products, the company makes some high quality stuff.
Check out the HW-9 .22 lr Sport Revolver line if you happen too come across one.
Walther had absolutely no connection with him.
Sauer and Sohn has not used the Herters trade name for any product they have marketed.
None that I am aware of or have ever handled anyway.
Herters was a large trading firm however, it wouldn't be beneath them to market a revolver such as the Rohm RG with a mispelled and surious 'Saur' trade name stamped on the gun along with or including a Herters stamp mark.
Herters did in fact import and market Weihrauch revolvers with the Herters name stamped on them and examples can still be found.
Picture reference can be made in pre 1970 Gun Digest catalog sections. HTH
I'm not trying to slap down Weihrauch products, the company makes some high quality stuff.
Check out the HW-9 .22 lr Sport Revolver line if you happen too come across one.
unspellable
Member
Herter's
For a number of years Herter's sold single action revolvers chambered in 357 magnum, 44 magnum, and the 401 Power Mag. They had Herter's name on them. In 40 years I have never heard their manufacture credited to any one other than Saur. These were more or less similar to a Ruger Blackhawk and were of decent quaility. At least they were all steel.
Did Herter's ever pedal a double action revolver?
Iron or steel are heavier than zinc. The revolver parts mentioned here were probably cast from a pot pot metal. The pot metals are a category of alloys that are relatively easy to cast and take the mold well. They have fairly low melting points, a desireable feature for easy casting. many, but not all, of these alloys contain zinc. Usuall the main constituent is either zinc or aluminum. Tin, copper, & lead may be among the metals alloyed with the main one. Pot metels generally tend to be lighter than steel.
For a number of years Herter's sold single action revolvers chambered in 357 magnum, 44 magnum, and the 401 Power Mag. They had Herter's name on them. In 40 years I have never heard their manufacture credited to any one other than Saur. These were more or less similar to a Ruger Blackhawk and were of decent quaility. At least they were all steel.
Did Herter's ever pedal a double action revolver?
Iron or steel are heavier than zinc. The revolver parts mentioned here were probably cast from a pot pot metal. The pot metals are a category of alloys that are relatively easy to cast and take the mold well. They have fairly low melting points, a desireable feature for easy casting. many, but not all, of these alloys contain zinc. Usuall the main constituent is either zinc or aluminum. Tin, copper, & lead may be among the metals alloyed with the main one. Pot metels generally tend to be lighter than steel.
unspellable
Member
alloys
I don't think you would pick up much lead from handling a pot metal object with a small amount of lead in it. I don't think most pot metals contain a very high percentage of lead.
I would suppose that in this day of political correctness, pot metals containg lead, no matter how little, have been banned.
It should be noted that kitchen faucets are usually made out of a pot metal. I've seen warnings saying that for the first use of the day you should run enough water to flush the faucet out before taking any as drinking water as the water standing in the faucet over night will leach lead out of it. I very much doubt that they deliberatly put lead in the alloy, it must be a small trace as an impurity.
I don't think you would pick up much lead from handling a pot metal object with a small amount of lead in it. I don't think most pot metals contain a very high percentage of lead.
I would suppose that in this day of political correctness, pot metals containg lead, no matter how little, have been banned.
It should be noted that kitchen faucets are usually made out of a pot metal. I've seen warnings saying that for the first use of the day you should run enough water to flush the faucet out before taking any as drinking water as the water standing in the faucet over night will leach lead out of it. I very much doubt that they deliberatly put lead in the alloy, it must be a small trace as an impurity.
Speaking of Walther revolvers,,,,Walther does indeed offer a revolver on the European market.
The handgun is actually made by Smith and Wesson and is basically a 3" or 4" Model 66. These are being phased out and a new offering of the 7 shot 686 L frame will or has been introduced.
These guns are marked as Walther but actually made by S&W.
The handgun is actually made by Smith and Wesson and is basically a 3" or 4" Model 66. These are being phased out and a new offering of the 7 shot 686 L frame will or has been introduced.
These guns are marked as Walther but actually made by S&W.
Ash
Member
No. The Windicator is better than a SNS (at least the steel-framed ones are). I would have no problem owning one, personally. I wouldn't get a zinc-framed one because it too closely related to SNS's. But a good old steel-framed Windicator, while incapable of winning any beauty pagents, would still make a good revolver for the price.
Ash
Ash
Shear_stress
Member
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2005
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- 2,728
Hi SIGfiend.
See my post in "Handgun: General Discussion" about the approval status of the Windicator in California. Long story short: it's approved, City-Arms in Pacifica has one, and you can find out more on the California DOJ website:
http://justice.doj.ca.gov/safeguns/safeguns_new.taf
Hope that helps.
See my post in "Handgun: General Discussion" about the approval status of the Windicator in California. Long story short: it's approved, City-Arms in Pacifica has one, and you can find out more on the California DOJ website:
http://justice.doj.ca.gov/safeguns/safeguns_new.taf
Hope that helps.
Shear - thanks buddy. its a shame though that only the .38 caliber snub is allowed here and not the other 3 models. 
Ash - if you look on that same DOJ link Shear provided it says that the alloy ones also contain steel: 'Windicator/EAR38B2 / Steel, Alloy' So does it still contain Zinc? And even if it does, doesn't the steel in there make up for it?
Ash - if you look on that same DOJ link Shear provided it says that the alloy ones also contain steel: 'Windicator/EAR38B2 / Steel, Alloy' So does it still contain Zinc? And even if it does, doesn't the steel in there make up for it?
Hi,
some of this topic is have some prejudice against Weiharuch's Arminius revolvers.
They made some really junk pieces in the past, but nowdays most of the products are absolutely useful, and approvable product.
They made some very high quality steel-framed target revolvers (HW9 line), which are capable of great accuracy and many 1000s rounds. (Good barrel, sights, trigger).
Their .38 Special or .357 magnum revolvers are totally acceptable as inexpensive (not cheap) home defense guns.
Because Smith and Wesson once made the zinc-slided SIGMA-380, it do not means, that Smith and Wesson is a pot-metal-gun manufacturer!
some of this topic is have some prejudice against Weiharuch's Arminius revolvers.
They made some really junk pieces in the past, but nowdays most of the products are absolutely useful, and approvable product.
They made some very high quality steel-framed target revolvers (HW9 line), which are capable of great accuracy and many 1000s rounds. (Good barrel, sights, trigger).
Their .38 Special or .357 magnum revolvers are totally acceptable as inexpensive (not cheap) home defense guns.
Because Smith and Wesson once made the zinc-slided SIGMA-380, it do not means, that Smith and Wesson is a pot-metal-gun manufacturer!
Ash
Member
Steel is in the barrel, cylinder, hammer, trigger etc. Zinc alloy is in the frame.
Ash
Ash
22luvr
Member
I've owned two of 'em and.....no problems
I owned Windicators in .38 spcl and .357 mag and had nary a problem with either one. Sure, they're large and heavy (mine were about 30 oz loaded) but very comfortable to shoot with their Pachmeyer-style grips.
They are a bit too bulky/heavy for concealed carry.
My .38 spcl had adjustable sights and is still the most accurate snub I have ever owned.
Mind you, I did not shoot a lot of rounds through either gun and never any +P or handloads......just factory standard pressure ammo.
If it is all you can afford and you need a good home defense or glove box gun, I would recommend them highly.
I owned Windicators in .38 spcl and .357 mag and had nary a problem with either one. Sure, they're large and heavy (mine were about 30 oz loaded) but very comfortable to shoot with their Pachmeyer-style grips.
They are a bit too bulky/heavy for concealed carry.
My .38 spcl had adjustable sights and is still the most accurate snub I have ever owned.
Mind you, I did not shoot a lot of rounds through either gun and never any +P or handloads......just factory standard pressure ammo.
If it is all you can afford and you need a good home defense or glove box gun, I would recommend them highly.
Ash--thanks for the clarification on the steel and alloy part breakdown.
I can't believe people make this whole Zinc argument. For the Zinc frame detractors I ask you two things:
-If say a high quality gun like a Sauer 220 were made with Zinc frames, would the 220 become an abject piece of crap solely because of the material the frame was made out of?
-If Zinc's melting point is at an estimated (rounded up) 800 degrees F' would you have even a remote chance of surviving the same envrionment where your Zinc gun is melting? (I know I would be long dead and either dried up or melted...
)
I can't believe people make this whole Zinc argument. For the Zinc frame detractors I ask you two things:
-If say a high quality gun like a Sauer 220 were made with Zinc frames, would the 220 become an abject piece of crap solely because of the material the frame was made out of?
-If Zinc's melting point is at an estimated (rounded up) 800 degrees F' would you have even a remote chance of surviving the same envrionment where your Zinc gun is melting? (I know I would be long dead and either dried up or melted...
)unspellable
Member
again?
I thought we went through this before. The melting point in and of itself, has nothing to do with how good the gun is or isn't, it's merely a convenient hook to hang an antigun law on. Same as if we said revolvers with right hand threads on their ejector rods will be legal, but ones with left handed threads will be banned. The melting point thing was chosen for its propaganda value as the low melting point alloys are associated with "cheap saturday night special" in the public mind. As in all such cases, they don't want the issue decided by emotion an not clouded with facts.
The pot metals are a class of relatively low cost alloys primarily designed for easy casting. Since they are desigend for easy casting they have relatively low melting points. They are aluminum based with various other metals such as copper, tin, lead, and zinc as additives. They are not noted for their strength. They have often been used in children's toys and kids can be rough. Rightly or wrongly, they have become associated with the idea of "cheaply made". There is also a class of zinc based alloys that are similar but are not generally called "pot metal".
None of these alloys are even remotely close in strength to steel, titanium, or the aluminum alloys used in quality firearms.
I thought we went through this before. The melting point in and of itself, has nothing to do with how good the gun is or isn't, it's merely a convenient hook to hang an antigun law on. Same as if we said revolvers with right hand threads on their ejector rods will be legal, but ones with left handed threads will be banned. The melting point thing was chosen for its propaganda value as the low melting point alloys are associated with "cheap saturday night special" in the public mind. As in all such cases, they don't want the issue decided by emotion an not clouded with facts.
The pot metals are a class of relatively low cost alloys primarily designed for easy casting. Since they are desigend for easy casting they have relatively low melting points. They are aluminum based with various other metals such as copper, tin, lead, and zinc as additives. They are not noted for their strength. They have often been used in children's toys and kids can be rough. Rightly or wrongly, they have become associated with the idea of "cheaply made". There is also a class of zinc based alloys that are similar but are not generally called "pot metal".
None of these alloys are even remotely close in strength to steel, titanium, or the aluminum alloys used in quality firearms.
hey 22luvr--i have some questions for you since youve owned (and know a lot about the) windicator
are those grips really rubber or plastic? i hear they are rubber but they feel very hard like plastic
is the frame of the 38 cal only version zinc?
why is the small 2" barrel version so darn heavy???
a couple times my gun wouldnt fire (the cylinder seemed obstructed by the shell casing rings and the cylinder would not turn...). has this happened to other people? isnt this dangerous if you need to depend on it as protection?
anyone else that can answer these questions please feel free to join in and answer if you know. thanks
are those grips really rubber or plastic? i hear they are rubber but they feel very hard like plastic
is the frame of the 38 cal only version zinc?
why is the small 2" barrel version so darn heavy???
a couple times my gun wouldnt fire (the cylinder seemed obstructed by the shell casing rings and the cylinder would not turn...). has this happened to other people? isnt this dangerous if you need to depend on it as protection?
anyone else that can answer these questions please feel free to join in and answer if you know. thanks
unspellable
Member
Windicators
The Windicators I have actully seen on the hoof were all steel.
Use of zinc alloys and pot metals in a firearm is generally a cost cutting measure pretty much confined to the lower class of firearms. And where do you draw the line between between pot metal and the high strength alloy used in say, a Ruger P89 frame or Blackhawk grip frame? I'm sure the metallurgists have clear cut distinctions but for us, the great unwashed masses, how do we know the difference?
Cheaper metals do not automatically mean quality is totally lacking though. For years Ithica sold a martini action 22 styled to look like a lever action. The frame or receiver was cast of some alloy that I suspect was not a high strength alloy. But they were nice little rifles for what they were, never heard any complaints. I had one when I was a teenager. Kind of wish I still had it.
But to face reality, there are a lot of cheap junk firearms out there. Ones that cannot be relied upon to bang when they are supposed to. And some supposedly better ones that don't go bang when they are supposed to. I guess you would cal them well made junk. (I include going boom in the category of not going bang.)
The Windicators I have actully seen on the hoof were all steel.
Use of zinc alloys and pot metals in a firearm is generally a cost cutting measure pretty much confined to the lower class of firearms. And where do you draw the line between between pot metal and the high strength alloy used in say, a Ruger P89 frame or Blackhawk grip frame? I'm sure the metallurgists have clear cut distinctions but for us, the great unwashed masses, how do we know the difference?
Cheaper metals do not automatically mean quality is totally lacking though. For years Ithica sold a martini action 22 styled to look like a lever action. The frame or receiver was cast of some alloy that I suspect was not a high strength alloy. But they were nice little rifles for what they were, never heard any complaints. I had one when I was a teenager. Kind of wish I still had it.
But to face reality, there are a lot of cheap junk firearms out there. Ones that cannot be relied upon to bang when they are supposed to. And some supposedly better ones that don't go bang when they are supposed to. I guess you would cal them well made junk. (I include going boom in the category of not going bang.)
22luvr
Member
Sigfiend: to answer you questions....
The rubber grips on mine sure felt like rubber to me.
Also, both of mine were heavy because I am almost positive that both were solid STEEL. Also, they hold 6 rather than 5 rounds.
I have had a couple of rounds get hung up in other revolvers I have owned because they were cheap reloads and the case-ends had expanded, due to poor quality control.
(Never had an issue using factory fresh ammo.)
Still think they're a best bang for the buck.....an ideal bedstand or glove box gun.
The rubber grips on mine sure felt like rubber to me.
Also, both of mine were heavy because I am almost positive that both were solid STEEL. Also, they hold 6 rather than 5 rounds.
I have had a couple of rounds get hung up in other revolvers I have owned because they were cheap reloads and the case-ends had expanded, due to poor quality control.
(Never had an issue using factory fresh ammo.)
Still think they're a best bang for the buck.....an ideal bedstand or glove box gun.
Hectordude
Member
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2006
- Messages
- 4
the point is
Wow, save some acid for ME man! what about the revolver?
Wow, save some acid for ME man! what about the revolver? Hectordude
Member
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2006
- Messages
- 4
Alloy, weight
I wouldn't be too concerned about the alloy. Its probably more aluminum based than zinc, but I'm sure they came up with the best thing they could. On that note, however, EAA lists the steel version as the same weight - 1.8 lbs. w/ the 2" barrel. Metal fatigue is always a problem with aluminum, so given the lack of weight difference, its pointless to go with the alloy model. "Pot metal" means recycled metal. Because of the variability of materials and lack of proper smelting, pot metal products are more subject to unexpected breakage. If the 1.8 lb model is too heavy for you, might I suggest martial arts? I can't imagine anything lighter being effective or tolerable, save a knife.
I wouldn't be too concerned about the alloy. Its probably more aluminum based than zinc, but I'm sure they came up with the best thing they could. On that note, however, EAA lists the steel version as the same weight - 1.8 lbs. w/ the 2" barrel. Metal fatigue is always a problem with aluminum, so given the lack of weight difference, its pointless to go with the alloy model. "Pot metal" means recycled metal. Because of the variability of materials and lack of proper smelting, pot metal products are more subject to unexpected breakage. If the 1.8 lb model is too heavy for you, might I suggest martial arts? I can't imagine anything lighter being effective or tolerable, save a knife.
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unspellable
Member
Pot metals
The term "pot metal" does not mean recycled. The pot metals are a group of alloys primarily designed for ease of casting to reduce production costs. Since that is the primary objective, low cost constituents become a secondary objective. Ease of casting means a relatively low melting point and good flow and mold filling characteristics. It does not mean that there is no quality control. Changes in the alloy can screw up the casting. The pot metals are not, however, famous for their strength.
The term "pot metal" does not mean recycled. The pot metals are a group of alloys primarily designed for ease of casting to reduce production costs. Since that is the primary objective, low cost constituents become a secondary objective. Ease of casting means a relatively low melting point and good flow and mold filling characteristics. It does not mean that there is no quality control. Changes in the alloy can screw up the casting. The pot metals are not, however, famous for their strength.
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