EAA Witness: Still cracking or improved?

[Hammerhead6814]

Google search: "EAA Witness cracked frame".

I won't even try to post all the links and horror stories about the frames and slides cracking and the customer service. But something I did notice is that beginning in 2011, posts are getting positive. Apparently EAA/Tanfoglio have switched (or are switching) to squared slides/frames.

But that's the rumor. Can anyone show an example of a new EAA Witness (pictures, range report, etc) that is performing w/o the problems that plagued the old?

 

[918v]

I think they are cracking because EAA uses cheap castings instead of forgings to keep the cost low. Why aren't CZ slides cracking? Cuz they are forged.

 

[Hossfly68]

My .45 was made in 2003, has a square slide, is more accurate than I am, and has no cracks. Most of the stories I heard about involved the 10mm and the .40 with the newer, rounded slides. The general concensus over on the Witness forums is that you should probably re-spring them and if they do crack, ask for Christy or Chrissy (I forget which) at Customer Service.

Now if I could get EAA to make a little thing like the CZ 2075, I'd be in hog heaven.

 

[MachIVshooter]

I think they are cracking because EAA uses cheap castings instead of forgings to keep the cost low. Why aren't CZ slides cracking? Cuz they are forged

Frames are cast, slides are machined from billet.

The 10mm's had the issue on the rounded models. Just wasn't enough metal. They've gone back to square.

When CZ makes a 10mm, then you can compare. Otherwise, I think Mr. Eric Grauffel would beg to differ on the quality. I know I do.

 

[ATLDave]

I've got nearly 1,500 rounds of 10mm through my Witness Elite Match, bought earlier this year. When I was considering buying mine, I could only find reports of cracking in Wonderfinish slides, not the blued or stainless slides you get in the Elite series.

Before I fired a single round, I swapped the slide-return spring with a Wolf 20lb one, which is a LOT heavier than the stock one. And I just replaced that; it was amazing to me how much the old spring had "shrunk" over a few months of fairly frequent shooting. My understanding, which is possibly incorrect, is that the same spring comes standard in the 9mm, .38 super, .40, .45, and 10mm. It seems fairly self-evident that, if the spring is good for 9mm, it's got to be undersprung for 10mm.

 

[powwowell]

I have a 2002 all steel, blued, 9mm Witness There ain't nothing "cracked" about it.

So, if the Witness line is having trouble with cracked frames, I assure you that it is not with all of it's models.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Wonderfinish slides, not the blued or stainless slides you get in the Elite series.

It' not stainless; Hard chromed carbon steel.

 

[SuperBoomTurbo]

How about magazine fixes?

I picked up a Stock II 10mm in February, and while the gun itself it fantastic, the 15 round magazines choke up after putting 10 in, nosedive, and cause constant feed failures. I'm dearly kicking myself that a gun of this quality won't function because of the crap mags, both right out of the box and with aftermarket mags.

Anyone know if the Mec Gar mags ever came out for the 10mm? I see the 9 and .40's have a new channel up and down the body.

The Stock, Gold and Limited series all have the square frame and slides, reinforced compared to the round ones. Mine still looks relatively new after 200 rounds, half of which were full house loads.

 

[MachIVshooter]

I picked up a Stock II 10mm in February, and while the gun itself it fantastic, the 15 round magazines choke up after putting 10 in, nosedive, and cause constant feed failures. I'm dearly kicking myself that a gun of this quality won't function because of the crap mags, both right out of the box and with aftermarket mags.

The mag bodies and followers are fine. Springs are crap. Get some wolf extra power springs, should fix it. Also, get an appropriate recoil spring for the power level of the ammo you're running. Undersprung slides and mags are the #1 cause of witness 10mm feeding problems. If springs don't fix it, PM me, and I'll detail an extractor mod that helps. The fast cycling of full power 10mm can create problems with feeding, but they're fixable.

 

[918v]

Frames are cast, slides are machined from billet.

Not EAA slides.

 

[SuperBoomTurbo]

Thanks Mach. I did install a higher load recoil spring and Henning guide rod shortly after purchase (as well as the higher capacity magazine, which didn't help matters either). If its only mag springs, which I've read about and contemplated recently, I'd hang onto the gun, so I hope it works. Right now its an embarrassment to shoot this thing at the range and I'm >-< this close to putting in on gun broker or whatnot.

Which mag spring would you recommend? Wolff's site says all calibers except the 10mm.

 

[flinch]

Ive had 2 .45's and 2 9mm Witness'es + one 9mm polymer. over the years. All blued. Shot the hell out of all of them and not a crack, break etc . Could be the best kept secret in firearms. Cant talk about the 10's and 40.'s though.

 

[intercooler]

I have a Facebook page EAA firearms with pics, videos, etc.. Stop by and check it out. Adding videos right now of shooting my new Hunter today.

 

[ATLDave]

SuperBoomTurbo, I've got 3 MecGar 10mm mags, all from Henning's shop. The stock basepads have to be sanded to get them to fit, at least with my gun. Otherwise, though, they work well.

 

[ATLDave]

It' not stainless; Hard chromed carbon steel.

Sorry, brain cramp.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Not EAA slides.

EAA slides are made of unobtainium. In other words, they don't exist.

EAA is just the importer; The guns are made by Tanfoglio.

The slides have toolmarks throughout, which would not be necessary on an investment cast piece. With casting, only final machining of important mating surfaces is done; The casting will have the reliefs and recesses for the specific purpose of eliminating millwork. Completely milling a cast piece would mitigate the cost-saving purpose of casting. I have understood on good authority that they are milled from carbon steel bar stock. If you have a credible source stating otherwise, cite it. I suspect you don't.

Later this week, I should have a letter (email) back from Fratelli Tanfoglio, SpA. stating the material used in their slides in plain English (or perhaps Italian) to settle this debate.

 

[918v]

Let's contact EAA.

 

[918v]

although a simple google search indicates the slides are cast...

http://www.mnguntalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=22161

The Tanfoglio Pistol Slides and Frames are "lost wax" cast and then Finish Machined on modern CNC Machining Centers. Some of the smaller parts are MIM formed. Barrels are machined from stock, button rifled, and given a coating of Industrial Hard Chrome, inside and out.

http://www.gundigest.com/firearm-gun-reviews/research_cz75

The slide and frame appear to be extremely high-quality investment casting, though the exporter, Merkuria, claims all parts are forged.

When I contacted Sphinx, they replied their slides were cast and we all know they started back in the day by assembling Tanfoglio parts into guns.

 

[MachIVshooter]

The Tanfoglio Pistol Slides and Frames are "lost wax" cast and then Finish Machined on modern CNC Machining Centers. Some of the smaller parts are MIM formed. Barrels are machined from stock, button rifled, and given a coating of Industrial Hard Chrome, inside and out.

A post from another board is your "proof"? That was also about the series 88; The TA-90 and BTA-90. The force/witness are a new incarnation

Also, the elite series are poly rifled. Oops!

The slide and frame appear to be extremely high-quality investment casting, though the exporter, Merkuria, claims all parts are forged.

The frames are obviously cast; You can see where they were machined and where they were not. Again, the slides have tool marks on every surface, inside and out. That would not be necessary with invesment casting.

We should have our answer directly from Tanfoglio in a short while anyway, though. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But it's usually very easy to identify an investment cast part by a marked absence of tool marks in non-critical areas that are easily shaped during casting.

 

[918v]

That's because you are used to looking at Rugers.

I have an Entreprise Arms FAL that has a cast receiver, but there is not one casting mark on it. They machined every surface.

 

[918v]

Well, you were right. I got a vey quick reply from EAA this morning and they said the slides are made from extruded bar stock and machined.

No excuse for the cracking, then.

 

[agtman]

Interesting back-n-forth on this thread ...

Let's see:

Tanfoglio makes the 10mm Witness, a pistol on the CZ-platform, that's had documented issues in the past, and not just cracked slides but Q.C. issues, frame issues and mag issues too. Maybe they're all resolved now, maybe not.

Sphinx makes a line of high-end, slick-looking CZ-style pistols, including a hi-cap 10mm model, but I haven't seen where one's available for purchase in the U.S. :banghead:

CZ could make a credible double-stack 10mm pistol (ala their 97B), but doesn't ...

And two years of waiting for Vltor to actually produce their "updated and improved" Bren Ten, the putative heir apparent to the original, is like watching paint dry.

It would be nice if maybe, one day, one of the above could get it together and bring to the U.S. market a 10mm pistol having all the virtues of the first 10mm pistol built on the CZ-pattern and none of its flaws (or what appear to be recurrent QC issues of the Witness, something the CZs don't seem to exhibit).



Just thinking out loud ...

 

[intercooler]

Well that's where you are wrong. I have a Hunter and Match and both are flawless 10mm's with no known issues.

 

[agtman]

Well that's where you are wrong. I have a Hunter and Match and both are flawless 10mm's with no known issues.

Actually, your guns, not being the standard 10mm Witnesses I referenced, only prove I'm right.

And any minimal sampling from a Google search will confirm I'm correct, let alone just from threads on this board going back, say, even 5 years. Even just doing a Search here proves the point:

http://www.ar15armory.com/forums/10mm-Talk-Forums-f187.html

Again, maybe Tanfoglio has now corrected all the problems previously noted w/ Witness pistols, but that doesn't erase the fact of past complaints about defects and Q.C. issues.

 

[intercooler]

I had a Polymer 10mm and it wouldn't run right period. On the FB page the lower Witness have experience slide cracks even in 9mm. Never heard of a frame crack though.