• You are using the old High Contrast theme. We have installed a new dark theme for you, called UI.X. This will work better with the new upgrade of our software. You can select it at the bottom of any page.

Educate me on compressed charges-44mag

Status
Not open for further replies.
B

bocefus78

Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2013
Messages
205
Location
Indianapolis area
I am trying to get a load developed for my Ruger SRH using Barnes xpb 225gr 44mag projectiles and IMR 4227 powder. (Whitetail round)

Heres my issue: The minimum charge per barnes manual is 19gr. I cannot get that into the case without having to SERIOUSLY compress the powder in order to seat to the cannelure. When I mean seriously, I mean its actually closing the hollow point a little bit due to how hard I have to press the ram!

Whats going on here? How compressed is compressed by book definitions?

Im about to just give them (the barnes) away and stick with the Hornaday xtp's I have. the only thing that holds me back is that I know exatcly how deadly these are coming from my muzzleloader. :banghead:
 
For me, although there may be published data for 4227, I would not use it for that bullet. You just can't fit enough into the case even with it compressed. I know people do it but I would go with a faster powder.
 
No other mag powders available. Just unique and 231 which I would prefer not to use since I have no data for.

These bullets are hard to find data for.
 
44 magnum and Barnes xpb 225gr #42922 with IMR 4227

XPB_42922.png
No wonder your having problems. Can the COL be longer and not use the crimp groove? The loaded round would have to fit the cylinder. Let neck tension hold the bullet? I would call Barnes also. Ask if there load data for that bullet and IMR 4227 is correct on there web site. http://www.barnesbullets.com/copper_manual/44_Rem_Mag_Pistol.pdf Keep in mind that an all copper bullet will produce more pressure than a lead core jacketed bullet, when using the same powder charge.
 
Last edited:
Not to question your reloading skills / experience, or offend you.

What are you weighing the charge with, and did you double check that the scale is both zeroed, and definitely adjusted to the right weight?

And are you also absolutely certain that you are working with mag. brass, and not spl.?

GS
 
Gs...

Yes, im new to reloading. Not offended at all.

100 percent new starline 44mag brass. Don't have a single piece of special brass.

Weighed on 2 different digi scales...mtm and Frankford arsenal
 
It's a revolver...back the charge off til it fits and see if you like it. And no reason to shoot maximum mag loads for deer. I loaded max load 44 spl for my contender and bang flopped a small buck. In 44 mag load for accuracy, not for power when talking about anything other than predators.
 
I'd go with the AA #9 and drop the IMR-4227 as RC "suggested". I've found it to be as good as IMR-4227 with less unburned powder in my 44s.

Out of curiosity, what's your location?
 
You could also drive that bullet hard enough with Unique to take a deer, if backing off the 4227 charge doesn't work.
 
rcmodel said:
It's listed under 'pistol' clear down below all the rifle bullet list.

http://www.barnesbullets.com/images/44RemingtonMagnumWeb.pdf

But no IMR 4227 shown.
Only AA #9, and Enforcer.

rc
Click to expand...


Yes and even those powders are compressed a starting loads. My first thought when I saw the title to this thread and before I read the OP was "can you get enough IMR4227 under an all copper bullet in .44mag?"

I love IMR4227 in .44 mag and .460 mag. It fills the case and gives excellent accuracy. Altho it does not give me the velocities of W296/H110, it is less temperature sensitive an thus more consistent when used in a wide variation of temperatures. Even with heavier conventional jacketed bullets, best loads come with compressed or nearly compressed loads. I would think the XTPs will give as good of terminal performance as the Barnes all-coppers at a much more reasonable cost. My experience with the XTPs in .44 mag is that they are also very accurate.
 
sounds like the unique powder, or the xtp bullets are your viable alternatives.

murf
 
Are you 100% sure you have the correct powder charge?

Hodgdon lists a 225gr bullet in the .44 Magnum with IMR-4227 and the Min charge is 23.0gr and the Max is 25.5gr with no compression. Something sounds very wrong if only 19gr causes excessive powder compression. Inexpensive digital scales are not always accurate.

Even though above the consensus is to change powders I have found 4227 to be a very good choice in the .44 Magnum.
 
I did some checking. Took a fired, unsized Starline case with a length of 1.275, which is trim length shown in the load data. OAL listed is 1.604, bullet length lists at .890. With everything at ideal length, the bullet base will be .561 from the case mouth.

19.0 gr. IMR 4227 fills the case to an approximate depth of .52, which will mean a compression of .04. 21.0 gr. fills to about .46, compression of .10.

Since it has been 30 years since I loaded the 44 magnum, I will leave the commentary to others.
 
Jesse Heywood said:
I did some checking. Took a fired, unsized Starline case with a length of 1.275, which is trim length shown in the load data. OAL listed is 1.604, bullet length lists at .890. With everything at ideal length, the bullet base will be .561 from the case mouth.

19.0 gr. IMR 4227 fills the case to an approximate depth of .52, which will mean a compression of .04. 21.0 gr. fills to about .46, compression of .10.

Since it has been 30 years since I loaded the 44 magnum, I will leave the commentary to others.
Click to expand...
Jesse, IMR-4227 does compress with 19.0gr? I'm very surprised because Hodgdon is usually very accurate with their online load data and they didn't report a compressed load with 23.0gr or the max of 25.5gr of IMR-4227. Very strange...
 
Copper Bullets

ArchAngelCD, The Barnes xpb 225gr 44 mag bullet is long for its weight because its an all copper bullet. The shank is going much deeper into the case than would a normal lead core type bullet. All copper/longer bearing surface = higher pressure. This is how it looks to me?? :confused:
 
243winxb said:
ArchAngelCD, The Barnes xpb 225gr 44 mag bullet is long for its weight because its an all copper bullet. The shank is going much deeper into the case than would a normal lead core type bullet. All copper/longer bearing surface = higher pressure. This is how it looks to me?? :confused:
Click to expand...

^^^This. Because I load standard jacketed bullets in .44 mag with 4227, and my loads are compressed, I knew that any all copper bullet in .44 mag would probably have to be used with compressed loads also. Being limited to powder charge with IMR4227 because of it's bulk, is why, IMO, velocities are lower than with H110/W296. The increased bearing surface of the Barnes bullet may mean one can still get good velocities, even with the lessened case capacity. Unless I hunted where lead core bullets are illegal, I would tend to stick with them just because they perform well on deer size game and they are much more reasonable than all copper at this time.
 
The length of the bullet below the cannulure uses roughly half the case volume. If I had to load, I would go with the minimum load. A slight compression of 4227 seems to yield the most accurate load.
 
Barnes XPB 200 gr .429" Diameter

I found a post with photo, saying the Barnes XPB 44 200 gr bullet is made 2 ways. One for the 44 magnum and the other for the 44 special. From Barnes link - http://www.barnesbullets.com/Copper_Manual4/44Special.pdf
*The Barnes #42921 200-grain XPB bullet (not the 200-grain #42920) is intended for use in the
.44 S&W Special cartridge. The cannelure position and design of the X-cavity on the #42921
bullet are tuned specifically for the .44 S&W Special, while the #42920 bullet is intended for use in
the .44 Remington Magnum cartridge.
Click to expand...
BarnesXPBBullets.jpg Thread & photo link - http://smith-wessonforum.com/reloading/351958-fyi-differences-between-barnes-xpb-bullets-44s.html No help for the 225 gr.
 
Last edited:
243winxb said:
ArchAngelCD, The Barnes xpb 225gr 44 mag bullet is long for its weight because its an all copper bullet. The shank is going much deeper into the case than would a normal lead core type bullet. All copper/longer bearing surface = higher pressure. This is how it looks to me?? :confused:
Click to expand...
Thanks for the information. I didn't realize the bullet we were talking about was all Copper! My mistake, sorry... :eek: Yes, I know all Copper bullets change all the rules. That sure explains why only 19gr of powder is compressed.

Since I have been schooled I now agree the OP should probably change powders. Since space is limited by the excessive length of the bullet I also agree a ball powder will probably be best.
 
Seat the bullet out as long as you can, crimp groove or not. I've always thought 4227 too slow a powder for 44 Mag, I know some think it hung the moon however.

Yes, when you compress enough to deform the bullet or feel resistance on the press, it's too much.

And no, #9 or Enforcer are not to be compressed. If you do you are way over max pressure.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

B
  • Locked
IMR 4227 in 44mag-mag primer or no?
Replies
5
Views
2K
JimKirk
JimKirk
A
  • Locked
will any .430 bullet work for 44mag?
Replies
23
Views
2K
someguy2800
someguy2800
coloradokevin
  • Locked
Compressed Charge help needed!
Replies
17
Views
1K
243winxb
243winxb
A
  • Locked
44mag max load?
2
Replies
26
Views
6K
bluetopper
bluetopper
TTv2
Seating depth and compressing powder charges for handgun
Replies
16
Views
434
TTv2
TTv2
Back
Top