Effective distance, shotgun @ fullchoke?

[twoblink]

What's the effective distance for a shotgun at full choke? I know, depends on the round, so name the round + distance..

Yes, I understand "effective distance" is subjective...

 

[HSMITH]

With some loads on some birds 80 yards is doable easily if you can shoot.......

 

[sm]

My old model 12 with a full bore using my reloads of 1 3/8 oz #5 extra hard shot consistently felled duck/geese up to 60-65 steps. The 1/14 oz ( again #5 shot) patterned about same but restricted myself to 50 -55 steps. Steps being rough for yds btw. When using the Win 1 1/2 oz with grex buffering...Ma Bell time...80 steps, I didn't condone long shots, cripples either, so I dialed long distance . My personal shots I kept (strived) to 40 yds.

Before non-toxic shot of course

 

[Kimber Kid]

I cut my teeth pass-shooting geese. An 80 yard shot is doable but don't let the game warden catch you with that buck-shot. Now that we must use steel, large shot is required to make-up for the lose of weight, unless you shoot the hi-dollar nontox stuff. BBB or bigger. If you can't make the trip the amount of shot that doesn't reach the bird doesn't matter. Lighter loads makes for more distance and velocity. Even if you can make the trip one must do so with enough shot and power to bring the bird down. This calls for the tightest pattern, be it full or whatever. A pattern must be checked from a particular gun using a particular choke with a particular load (shot size). What you learn might surprise you.

Before anybody learns at what distance a shotgun can kill he MUST first learn at what distance it won't. That takes practice. I know there are a lot of so-called sportsmen that with argue the point and say restrict your shots to 35 yards. I say BALOGNA! The knowledge and skill required to know when a bird is in range doesn't come overnight and it doesn't come from 35 yard shots. Pushing a shotgun to the ragged edge is sport indeed, I love it! Using steel BBB, TT or T, a honest 60 yards is a good shot. 80 yards with #4 lead shot?...you're shooting blackbirds in the eye.

BTW, stick to the 12 ga. 3 1/2, the 10 ga. offers no advantage and every shell you buy for it will be hi-dollar.

 

[Dave McCracken]

The idea is not to drop birds at fantastic ranges, the idea is to humanely KILL birds each and every time. That takes skill and closer ranges. At 60 yards, more ducks and geese are maimed and crippled than killed outright.There's a special spot in Hades for skybusters, I hope.

If you want to see sour looks on men's faces, ask some Eastern Shore guides about folks who take the longer shots. These guys bust tail getting setup so folks can get 30 yard shots on waterfowl.

And, steel runs out of gas about 40-45 yards out, even BBBs. Using these on long shots is egregious.

I've taken geese at 65 yards with a 16 gauge, 1 1/8 oz load of 3s. Knowing what I know now, any goose at 50 yards will get shot only if it's a cripple,probably someone else's.

Oh, yes, 50 yards with 4 buck, turkey full choke in Frankenstein. Doable.

 

[HSMITH]

Dave, I respectfully disagree with you on the effective range of steel shot. I shoot high quality high velocity 3.5" mags only, and #2 steel will knock a drake mallard out of the sky GYD (grave yard dead) at 55 yards every time on time if you can shoot, the actual limit is somewhere in the 60-65 yard area. I don't do many long shots or I would know more precisely, usually I am killing cripples that are escaping. I have killed mallards over 60 yards, but only 4 or 5 times that there were no holes in the head or the neck of the bird. The BBB steel on greater and giant Canada geese will kill them GYD with ease at 65 yards. I have not been able to get a decent pattern with T shot yet, and the BBB works so well inside of 65 yards that I quit trying.

The key to steel shot is LARGE pellets in copious quantities in a very dense pattern, making it a 3.5" endeavor with either 10 or 12 bore doing virtually the same. 3" steel anything is out of pellets at about 45 yards with pellets large enough to kill past 40 yards, 2.75" if anything is equal to 3" with steel shot inside of 40 yards. Patterns for effective steel use outside of 45 yards require patterns that are useless inside of 30 yards, if you center a bird at 25 yards you will blow it up. These steel patterns took a lot of shooting and a lot of money in shells and chokes, and the end may not even justify the means. I did however enjoy it, and learn a lot. When shooting backup, which is 75% of the time for me, it is very valuable to know and saves a lot of birds that would normally be lost.

In summary, steel shot sucks, but it can be used to good effect provided the right gun, loads, and chokes are used.

KimberKid, you would not be reffering to #4 buck out of a full choke dropping geese at 80 yards would you? I have seen it done and it is amazingly effective. Illegal though, so I left quickly. Out on the Mississippi river you see geese just fold and drop sometimes at up to 100 yards and know what is going on, those guys are going to get caught eventually and I hope the birds were worth it.

 

[sm]

Clarification

The 1/12 oz loads were #2 lead shot.

My personal shots I kept at 25 -35 yds. I or the gracious host would load up to take care of cripples. Many clients and guests were not very goood shots, no matter , we would have some cripples...I chose many times not to hunt, but to assist in the shooting...many times 'too far, don't shoot...etc". Cripples, as you know, can swim afar-quickly. Flooded timber or reseviour hunting, I loaded up for MA Bell.

I've taken too many ducks with a skeet choke (forgot to change) at 20 -25 yds with #1 or #4 steel shot. I prefer the new Bismuth nowadays. Heck I've gone and just watched and never pulled the trigger. Just taking it all in.

Hunting don't mean you gotta shoot something.

 

[Dave McCracken]

H, we must disagree a bit, but maybe not as much as one might think.

Steel BBBs (3") from Frankenstein's bunty barrel often need a followup on snows,30-40 yards out. Not GYD,and hit solidly. I've taken few mallards recently, so I yield to your experience there.

The only justification for 3 1/2" howitzer loads would be these situations,IMO. Ethical sportsmen and women use what it takes, or do not take the shot.

Steel does bite, but it can be used ethically, under controlled conditions. I'm sure, from the posts I've enjoyed and learned from, you do take only reasonable shots. Let's not encourage those of less experience and craft towards emulation before they're ready.

And, I'd wager the usual flagon of mead that most waterfowlers cannot judge range accurately within 5 yards when past 40.This means erring on the side of caution is the best way.

BTW, GYD=DRT. Dead Rat Thar....

 

[HSMITH]

DRT, I like that one!!!

I agree completely on taking shots you KNOW you can do 90%+ of the time, and I take only shots that fit that standard unless a cripple is getting out. I shoot backup a lot, and consequently I have gained a lot more experience in long range shotgunning than most will in 20 times the number of hunts. I also put in the time and effort and cubic dollars to be prepared with the right equipment and skills if I need to shoot waaaay out there. Most guys can't get within 6 FEET of a mallard crossing at 50 yards, and fewer yet would believe the lead it takes to hit that bird solidly.

I also agree VERY few people can judge distance worth a hoot, over water a rangfinder is needed but in fields steppint it off is close enough. I also think that if you are not a darn good shot you had better keep it inside 35-40 yards. Even if you are a deadly super shooter you had better keep it under 40 yards until you have shot lots of ducks and geese. They are a whole lot harder to hit under most circumstances than the target that had everyone complaining on the last sporting clays course you shot.

I prefer "roman candles" when talking about the 3.5" shells but howitzer does have a nice ring to it......

I wish there was a way to pound the need to pattern shotguns with the loads you are going to use into the heads of shotgunners. PATTERN THAT SHOTGUN BEFORE YOU SHOOT AT A CRITTER!!!!!!!! It IS time consuming, it IS a PITA, it IS a cost, and it can darn sure make you sore, but IT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO!!!! I would venture a guess that 99% of shotgunners do not pattern the loads they hunt with, but 90% of those same guys would never hunt deer without checking the zero of their rifle. It is effectively the same thing.

 

[Dave McCracken]

I've hunted with people that don't zero their rifles, H, but never twice.

Patterning can be a pain, but it's mandatory.

As for long shots, I still prefer less than 40 yards, and mostly I can get enough of them to be happy with the bag. It's like bowhunting, some folks like to see how far off they can take a critter, some folks like to see how close they can get and still harvest it.

I dunno if I can quantify the lead I'd use on a 50 yard mallard with a tailwind and a mission, but it's way ahead. Call it someplace between the length of a Surburban and a stretch limo. Probably I'd just grin and not shoot.

There's but one way to learn to shoot geese, and that's to shoot geese. Preferably with an able gunner on backup.

 

[HSMITH]

No big surprise, you are pretty close on the lead

I like to see them with feet down and wings cupped, then call the shot personally. Shoot two and save the third shell for a possible cripple unless someone is on backup and he can shoot. 40 yards is PLENTY long for a typical shot, and with good setup, calling and reasonable birds you can shoot plenty of them within that range.

 

[Dave McCracken]

H, a stretch 10 passenger Lincoln is 28 feet long. A Suburban runs about 14.

I too prefer cupped wings and landing gear lowered. My approach differs, tho. I stay on one bird until it folds or gets out of range. If the thing folds on the first shot, I stand by as backup. With the guys I hunt geese with, I'm not needed often. IOW, I don't shoot many doubles. This might be the result of early teachings, or distrust of steel shot, or both.

Also, I tend to go for birds higher and further back. This cuts down on two hunters ventilating the same goose.Most folks pick the closest and lowest.

 

[HSMITH]

I was guessing the Suburban was at least 18 feet long seeing as one will BARELY fit in my garage.......... The limo is too much for sure but the burb is darn close, better to miss in front if you are gonna miss.

You have heard enough about my rig to know I shoot high and/or back too, and I shoot a bird of my own ONLY if I can see that it is a drake. With my setup for gun and ammo if I hit them they fold and fall, plain and simple. I too stay on one bird until it folds if I miss. I shot at least a dozen doubles last year and a couple triples. Less than 10% of the total harvest last year out of my boat were hens, and considering diving ducks were over half the bag that is outstanding IMO. I can be a jerk about things like shooting hens, shooting too soon, flock shooting, shooting across the flock and some other things that really irritate me, but I have weeded out enough "hunters" that the guys I go with are outstanding hunters even if they are not the best shots.

Sounds like we could be right at home in each others blinds Dave.

 

[Dave McCracken]

You're definitely welcome in mine, H.

Over the years, quality has won over quantity. I have as much fun, take enough game, and sleep better at night doing it this way as in the old days of filling the P/U until the springs creak.

I'm feeling the itch right now. A snow goose day would really relieve the Shack Nasties, AKA Cabin Fever.

 

[Marshall]

I fall on the side of calling better and taking close shots. I just love the art of calling in long rangers to a close, wings set position. The majority of my hunts are a 45 minute drive and a wade thru flooded timber, it's usally just myself and a buddy so we have the joy of doing what we want, when we want.

Don't get me too wrong, we have our days once in a while when the next web footed legal fowl that flies anywhere inside 60-65yds tops is getting nailed. (the slow days)

Besides, both my labs think everytime the gun goes bang a bird should be falling to the water. I hate to dissapoint them!

Dave, you are right about the skybusters! When we're done hunting and at the local cafe eating breakfast, we try to pick out who the as*sholes are that shot away half the incoming and didn't hit one of them! Grrrrrrr They go out and stand around with no decoys, can't call at all and hope they put themselves in a position to pick off ducks or geese others are working for. Not a popular thing.

 

[12-34hom]

I say the max range one can shoot depends on the individual's skill and less on the weapon used.

My experiance, 3 inch - 12 guage mag - lead # 2 or 4 shot - 55 yards.

Steel shot - 45 yards. BB - BBB - T- shot.

I want dense patterns & lots of pellets. Pattern your gun is a must, with whatever choke is used. I prefer an IC choke with steel shot - with lead a modified choke.

Fullchoke = Turkey hunting. Other than that i can't see using a fullchoke.

12-34hom.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Amen, Marshall. Skybusters oft jacklight,etc. We do not need them.

 

[twoblink]

I gotta friend who's been huntin since he was a young'en, and he says 40 is the number for "humane" reasons..

So I guess you guys are backing him up..

 

[Kimber Kid]

I've patterened a shotgun or two and found that with steel, in one particular gun, using a modified at 40 yards was a waste of time and money. My pattern was to loose to kill even a duck. Shooting ducks over dekes is one thing but pass-shooting geese is something else. They say I can destroy a barrel choking it down to full with steel but it's my barrel and I consider myself warned. I can, have and will KILL geese at 60 yards using big steel. Pattern your gun yourself using 1/2 inch plywood at 60 yds and see what happens. This will be my 40 th year hunting geese and have yet to bust the sky. Fact is I don't want a bird within 30 yards. We don't wait to see feet, let them land or even set their wings. When they are in range we shoot. I don't try to second guess a wild goose. We never or seldom hunt a field all day and never two days in a row. Having several areas to move to without putting a lot of pressure on any one area is ultra important. Use big steel and push it as fast as you can. Federal makes some Premium F shot at 1400 FPS it'll kill at 60 plus yards. I love hunting with "ethical hunters" that say "don't shoot...don't shoot" they are to far then fold two giant Canadas up while they empty out without a feather falling. After they get over being mad they listen and learn, usually, but there are some that never do.

 

[12-34hom]

skybusters inc.

Yes, there are some [they are far and few between] that can consistantly kill out past 40 to 45 yards.

Most of the time though these "hunters" end up crippling the majority of birds shot at. They rely on "technology" to make up for poor shootong skills, lack of practice, poor ethics so that they can brag about how far this or that bird was taken at.

The ammo makers love this crowd also, instead shooting once, two or three shots are needed to dispatch a wounded bird. I guess some folks just love to hear thier guns go off??

Ironic, that the reason lead was banned, the number of birds wounded and not harvested by hunters using steel shot numbers in the hundreds of thousands.

12-34hom.

 

[Kimber Kid]

They rely on "technology" to make up for poor shootong skills, lack of practice, poor ethics so that they can brag about how far this or that bird was taken at.

After a 5000 round season of Trap and Sporting Clays my skills are polished. Practice is paramount, how can a shooter get 60 yard practice if he never shoots past 40? I'm not going to say a bird is never lost or crippled, no one is. Every effort is made to retrieve every bird, my retriever does his job very well. A shooter lacking the skills and the knowledge of his firearm, choke and loads is NOT made ethical because all he can make is a 40 yard trip. There is no magic that suddenly makes him a crack shot, if he aint got it at 60 he aint got it at any distance and should seek the council of one that does.

Is a 60 yard shot at geese sporting? You're damn right it is.

 

[12-34hom]

As i said, there are a FEW hunters that can take waterfowl over 40 to 45 yards consistantly.

90% can't and never will. My 30+ years of waterfowl hunting makes me believe that.

It's every hunters duty to make kills as clean and humane as possible. Many folks don't have the inclanation or time or money to "polish thier skills" shooting 5000 rounds in practice. For those folks who's skills might be marginal, 40 yard shots make more common sense than 60.

But thats just me, maybe a trip to the mountain top to seek council from "The Wise One" and i'll get with the program.

12-34hom.