Actually I don't!
Of the following I wouldn't say any are sufficient
223
243
8mm Mauser
7.62x54R (only because it comes out of a POS Nagant)
7.62.39
11x58 Beumont.
That's about what I'm thinking at this point too. Except probably a 4.5 to 14
Elk and Bench Gun - Caliber Decision
- Thread starter NDGeek
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Actually I don't!
Of the following I wouldn't say any are sufficient
223
243
8mm Mauser
7.62x54R (only because it comes out of a POS Nagant)
7.62.39
11x58 Beumont.
That's about what I'm thinking at this point too. Except probably a 4.5 to 14
Rob96
Member
Actually what the OP is looking for is not uncommon or unrealistic. If you read on the long range hunting forums you will see reference to "tactical hunters", rifles that are made for precision shooting as well as hunting. You will definetely be looking in the 9-10 pound range. A Remington SPS Varmint or Tactical in 308 will certainly fill this role. Go with the varmint you have te option of staying with the 26" barrel or shortening it to your desired length, although I wouldn't go below 20".
Still Shooting
Member
You might want to consider a 7mm Win Short Mag - I just picked up a Savage in that caliber, and it is not bad to shoot, with plenty of power to "reach out and touch" an elk. I've been loading 139gr. and 162gr. Hornady SST's, and recently shot through 30 rds. on the bench (working up loads-it likes the 162's near max) without a sore shoulder. The gun is out of production at Savage, but I found mine nib at a local gun shop at an irresistable price. Put a Leupold 3-9x40 on it and I'm a happy man! With the Savage, if I decide I want to try a .300 WSM, barrels are available and it's a 20 minute changeover.
Gtscotty
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I'm going to throw the idea of a switch barrel Savage into the ring. I bought a Savage 110 with the express intent of pulling the 30-06 barrel and installing a 35 Whelen or 338-06 barrel. The op could buy a 110 in 30-06 for elk, and then buy a second barrel in say 260 Rem or 7-08 for long range shooting. Conversely if the Op wanted a little more gun for the Elk hunt, he could switch to pretty much any magnum (not including the short mags) with the addition of a barrel and a $20 bolt head. Just another possibility, there is a bunch of info on the subject at the savage shooters forum if you're interested.
Edit: Beaten to it.
Edit: Beaten to it.
MachIVshooter
Member
.280 Rem, .30-06, 7mm Rem Mag or .300 Win Mag would be my top choices for your purpose. None of them are too brutal to shoot from the bench (.300 WM is very close to the limit, though), all are more than capable big game cartridges and .284 and .30 caliber offer the best bullets for long range shooting short of stepping into .338 territory.
6.5mm's have been mentioned, and you listed the .264 WM in your OP, which would also all work fine. It's just that rifles so chambered are uncommon, and brass for all but the 6.5x55 and .260 Rem is rather expensive. But the 6.5x55 and .260 Rem. are a bit short on oomph, IMO; Good deer rounds that'll work for elk, but you already have a .243.
I don't see where he said it was. It is a capable elk round.
Neither of them would be particularly well suited to the OP's primary purpose, with the overwhelming majority of bullets available in either caliber being hunting type, not match.
The WSM's are down, wounded and twitching, just barely hanging on in the market. The 7mm has the highest viability, but that's like being the prarie dog who only had his back legs squished by a car, rather than the entire body. They were an answer to a question no one asked, and sales have proven it.
6.5mm's have been mentioned, and you listed the .264 WM in your OP, which would also all work fine. It's just that rifles so chambered are uncommon, and brass for all but the 6.5x55 and .260 Rem is rather expensive. But the 6.5x55 and .260 Rem. are a bit short on oomph, IMO; Good deer rounds that'll work for elk, but you already have a .243.
I don't see where he said it was. It is a capable elk round.
Neither of them would be particularly well suited to the OP's primary purpose, with the overwhelming majority of bullets available in either caliber being hunting type, not match.
The WSM's are down, wounded and twitching, just barely hanging on in the market. The 7mm has the highest viability, but that's like being the prarie dog who only had his back legs squished by a car, rather than the entire body. They were an answer to a question no one asked, and sales have proven it.
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Coal Dragger
member
NDGeek,
You say you own an 8mm Mauser? It seems that you have a more than adequate elk rifle then.
You say you own an 8mm Mauser? It seems that you have a more than adequate elk rifle then.
OKcarburetor
Member
Ya, but he's trying to justify another rifle.
.264 mag or 7mm mag would be my choice.
edit: I love my 25-06 as well, and the recoil is very mild.
Coal Dragger
member
In that case I would give the nod to a .280, .280AI (personal favorite), or a 7mm Mag.
223 Probably not
243 Getting warmer, but still probably not
8mm Mauser If .270, .308, or .30-06 will do the job, so will this.
7.62x54R (only because it comes out of a POS Nagant) If .270, .308, or .30-06 will do the job, so will this.
7.62.39 Getting warmer, but still probably not
11x58 Beumont. Not familiar with the cartridge, but the dimensions would lead me to think it might also be capabler of taking elk.
243 Getting warmer, but still probably not
8mm Mauser If .270, .308, or .30-06 will do the job, so will this.
7.62x54R (only because it comes out of a POS Nagant) If .270, .308, or .30-06 will do the job, so will this.
7.62.39 Getting warmer, but still probably not
11x58 Beumont. Not familiar with the cartridge, but the dimensions would lead me to think it might also be capabler of taking elk.
MachIVshooter
Member
It's 11.3x50 Beaumont (as opposed to 11x58 Werndl, or 11x58 Spanish).
And where in sam tarnation did that come from? Honestly, you couldn't have found a more obscure cartridge to recommend. Like most others of it's type, it was a transitional military cartridge (BP to smokeless era, ~1870-1890), and not very powerful. It would not be well suited to either intended purpose, considering both the cartridge and the Beaumont rifle.
Collectors item, not contemporary hunting rifle
X-Rap
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These questions always get some very obscure responses as well as joes favorite in the non magnum caliber while bashing any worth a belted case may have.
Given your own parameters I will suggest the 7MM or 300WM. (either win. or wea.)
The .26 cals may do fine for long range target but the limited bullet selection won't let them shoot to the potential of the gun you are looking for. The smaller 7&30's are the same IMO.
I base my views on what some long range target only shooters pick as being low recoil easy to shoot lighter calibers (the 26's) and what long range man hunters use. (300&338's)
The light calibers are good for punching paper and the bigger can reach out and still be lethal at 1500 or more yds. My conclusion then for an effective big game caliber at 600 while still be fun and interesting at 1000-1500 would be those I suggested in 175-180 gr. bullets.
The Army is transitioning to the 300win mag and those guns are being humped over some of the toughest terrain in the world so I'm betting a Sendero with good glass would do you fine in ND.
Good luck and have fun.
Given your own parameters I will suggest the 7MM or 300WM. (either win. or wea.)
The .26 cals may do fine for long range target but the limited bullet selection won't let them shoot to the potential of the gun you are looking for. The smaller 7&30's are the same IMO.
I base my views on what some long range target only shooters pick as being low recoil easy to shoot lighter calibers (the 26's) and what long range man hunters use. (300&338's)
The light calibers are good for punching paper and the bigger can reach out and still be lethal at 1500 or more yds. My conclusion then for an effective big game caliber at 600 while still be fun and interesting at 1000-1500 would be those I suggested in 175-180 gr. bullets.
The Army is transitioning to the 300win mag and those guns are being humped over some of the toughest terrain in the world so I'm betting a Sendero with good glass would do you fine in ND.
Good luck and have fun.
pikid89
Member
270 or 30-06...id would venture to say that more elk have fallen to those two calibers than all the new expensive magnums combined
Ole Humpback
Member
Sunray, you're correct. Thats why you see those guys using 1885 High Walls or Low Walls and 1874-1877 Sharps Rifles commonly. Generally those rifles have 32" barrels and weigh in at 11lbs. I've not looked into the loads for long range ammo, but I'd imagine a large charge of slow burning powder is used in those long barrel rifles.
I did suggest the 375 H&H for its versatility of loads and game types, but apparently that's a bit too much for what the OP has in mind.
The 300 and 270 WSM are alive, kicking and doing quite well. They ain't going anywhere. Especially the 300. I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't out selling new rifles in 300 win mag.
Buyers are hard to figure out though. The 7mm WSM is probably the best of the bunch and is the least popular of the 3.
RugerMcMarlin
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NartDacodaGeek, You should have started with your second post if your 8Mauser has a scope shoot your elk with that. Its as perfect for that as an 06.Maybe a little better.Likewise 7.62x54R . Now you just need a target rifle.' Otherwise your wife is right you don't need another rifle.
MachIV, Thanks for the info on the 11x58 jobby I thought he was building an indoor range, and those were the dimensions. I'm glad I mis understood the 1st post I've completely convinced myself I need a 300 Holland.
You completely suckered me. When you said I reload, and I'm prepared to change out barrels, It sounded like you'd been reloading long enough to ruin a couple barrels.
MachIV, Thanks for the info on the 11x58 jobby I thought he was building an indoor range, and those were the dimensions. I'm glad I mis understood the 1st post I've completely convinced myself I need a 300 Holland.
You completely suckered me. When you said I reload, and I'm prepared to change out barrels, It sounded like you'd been reloading long enough to ruin a couple barrels.
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Vern Humphrey
Member
To quote the late, great Townsend Whelen, "The .30-06 is never a mistake."
captainjoe
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My all round favorite is the venerable .30-06. Reasonable recoil, can be handloaded to some pretty impressive levels and easy on the shoulder. I figure the .30-06 is about the most practical rounds out there for the average or casual shooter.
If you want to push distance, I prefer the 300 win mag. Easy to get ammo for and very versatile. The 300 win mag will give you a bit more range than the .30-06 for long range hunting. Some complain about the recoil. If it bothers you, use a shoulder pad on the range because when you are aiming at an elk, you won't feel or hear the shot. As far as targets go, just read a post on another forum of a guy that worked up a load and was successfully hitting his target at one mile.
Good luck.
If you want to push distance, I prefer the 300 win mag. Easy to get ammo for and very versatile. The 300 win mag will give you a bit more range than the .30-06 for long range hunting. Some complain about the recoil. If it bothers you, use a shoulder pad on the range because when you are aiming at an elk, you won't feel or hear the shot. As far as targets go, just read a post on another forum of a guy that worked up a load and was successfully hitting his target at one mile.
Good luck.
NCsmitty
Member
If you must have a magnum, the 7mm ReMag is a balanced round and gives you long distance clout without beating you up too much.
However, most of the '06 based rounds mentioned will suffice quite nicely.
NCsmitty
However, most of the '06 based rounds mentioned will suffice quite nicely.
NCsmitty
d2wing
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Of the cartridges you are interested in I would suggest the .300 Mag. My choice was a 7mm mag. I have actually hunted in North Dakota. In much of it is so open, you can really see game for miles. I dunno where some of these guys live but they sure haven't hunted open country as opposed to shooting a fixed target from a bench. Some don't realize that you need a rifle easily carried that hits hard at maximun range and shooted as flat as possible so you can get off a round quickly with a minimum of calulation.
I'd like to see that .45-70 guy carry that thing for miles then get off a 500 yard shot in
less than 10 seconds.
I'd like to see that .45-70 guy carry that thing for miles then get off a 500 yard shot in
less than 10 seconds.
BluegrassDan
Member
I would suggest an extra light gun if you're going to be running up and down hills in North Dakota looking for elk. You'll wish you had a light gun when you're packing that dude out in quarters!
My Kimber 84M Classic Select in .308 Win can do this at 100 yards with 150 grain, cheapo, grey-box Winchester Powerpoints, and it only weighs 6 lbs with a Leupold VX3. Put a 180 grain bullet in the ole Elk's boiler room and you'll have steak for dinner.
Comes with a match barrel, match chamber, and match trigger out of the box, and it's pretty to look at too!
My Kimber 84M Classic Select in .308 Win can do this at 100 yards with 150 grain, cheapo, grey-box Winchester Powerpoints, and it only weighs 6 lbs with a Leupold VX3. Put a 180 grain bullet in the ole Elk's boiler room and you'll have steak for dinner.
Comes with a match barrel, match chamber, and match trigger out of the box, and it's pretty to look at too!
Jim Watson
Member
I am not a tough young infantryman and I don't want to carry a benchrest/snipper rifle any farther than from the car to the bench. A good hunting rifle is a different gun and need not be heavy to be accurate for the few shots to sight in and the occasional shot on game.
Oh, by the way, the guys shooting .45-70s at 1000 yards (more likely a .45-90 or -110) are NOT using smokeless powder. Black powder is old fashioned and inefficient but it is amazingly consistent when loaded right. The last BPCR I chronographed was a .40-65 midrange rifle at 1207 fps with a standard deviation of 3 and extreme spread of 11; and that not my best.
Oh, by the way, the guys shooting .45-70s at 1000 yards (more likely a .45-90 or -110) are NOT using smokeless powder. Black powder is old fashioned and inefficient but it is amazingly consistent when loaded right. The last BPCR I chronographed was a .40-65 midrange rifle at 1207 fps with a standard deviation of 3 and extreme spread of 11; and that not my best.
RugerMcMarlin
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J56 yada
can I get one of you guys, besides j56, to help me with this troll thing, I'm not up on all the internet jargon, and I can't stop doing it, til I know what it is. And I'm serious, I would also like to know how you, single out a phrase or quote. I haven't done that to any body yet, partly because I don't know how, and partly because I thought it was intended to aggravate. PM me or tell public which ever.
can I get one of you guys, besides j56, to help me with this troll thing, I'm not up on all the internet jargon, and I can't stop doing it, til I know what it is. And I'm serious, I would also like to know how you, single out a phrase or quote. I haven't done that to any body yet, partly because I don't know how, and partly because I thought it was intended to aggravate. PM me or tell public which ever.
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451 Detonics
Member
Another suggestion would be a Savage 111 long Range Hunter in 6.5X284 Norma. Yes it weight 8 1/2 pounds plus the scope weight but it would also serve as an excellent long range target rifle.
Supertac45
Member
Out of your choices, I'd go with the .257 Weatherby.
Dr T
Member
I recently made the decision on the question posed by the OP: Elk + Long range targets.
I am also finding that I am getting a bit recoil sensitive with age.
My solution was a 6.5 Creedmoor. I picked it up in a Ruger M77 in stainless steel and a synthetic stock. Contrary to what the Ruger catalog says, it comes with a 26 inch barrel (not the 24 that the catalog states).
Initially, I will scope the rifle with a Redfield 4-12x.
It has a crisp trigger that feels like it is about 4 or 5 lbs, but that can be fixed if I want to put a lighter trigger on the gun.
While there is not the wide variety of bullets available that you find in 7 mm or 30 caliber, there are a enough to make it interesting (I even have some of the old Hornady 160 gr. roundnoses lying around).
I am also finding that I am getting a bit recoil sensitive with age.
My solution was a 6.5 Creedmoor. I picked it up in a Ruger M77 in stainless steel and a synthetic stock. Contrary to what the Ruger catalog says, it comes with a 26 inch barrel (not the 24 that the catalog states).
Initially, I will scope the rifle with a Redfield 4-12x.
It has a crisp trigger that feels like it is about 4 or 5 lbs, but that can be fixed if I want to put a lighter trigger on the gun.
While there is not the wide variety of bullets available that you find in 7 mm or 30 caliber, there are a enough to make it interesting (I even have some of the old Hornady 160 gr. roundnoses lying around).
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