Facial Wounds

[TrueTexan]

The area you are aiming at is very small from the eyebrows to the bottom of the nose.much of this area is multiple layers of bone such as the sinus cavities and the nasal bones. Even though they are thin compared to the frontal skull area, they can slow or deflect a bullet depending on the angle of impact. It will have an adverse effect on their day but it might not stop the threat. As for hitting the brain stem and stopping ll activity,maybe or maybe not. We had a patient come into the ER where I worked as a RN. He had been shot at very close range with a 32 cal pistol ball ammo to the lower posterior skull. It was close enough for powder burn to the hair. The bullet went through the brain stem into the upper brain . The patient went to surgery and two weeks later walked out of the hospital and went back to work with no deficits. It is just a matter of luck and if you can put the odds more in your favor you can have the better luck.

 

[GLOOB]

I think it would be pretty distracting to be shot in the face. If the threat isn't stopped, you might have time to try again.

A Vietnam vet told me how he witnessed a private accidentally shoot his best friend in the face with a 1911. The bullet plowed through his teeth, taking out a row of molars and stopping in the back of the mouth.

 

[Jim K]

I have no idea what kind of freakish condition was involved in that incident, but making the general statement that "A tooth can definitely stop a pistol bullet" is a bit extreme.

I knew of a man who was shot in the forehead with a .45ACP caliber pistol; the bullet travelled around inside his skull and exited at the rear. He suffered only a slight headache and walked to the hospital.

But I would not like to say that anyone shot between the eyes with a .45 will be fine and need only a couple of aspirins.

Jim

 

[Certaindeaf]

Old Bucktooth McGee always said to drink milk because if you get shot in the mouth, you've at least enjoyed a nutritional and refreshing drink. probably

 

[Godsgunman]

In my opinion you best be using FMJs if it a 380, from the head traumas I've seen a JHP will be very ineffective. Penetration is numero uno when dealing with head/face shots. The skull and facial bones are very effective at deflecting and stopping penetration. The very best bet especially if the assailant does have armor is a side shot to neck and base of head. The skull is very effective against frontal trauma, the weak points are from the side. Take out the trachea, c-spine, esophagus area and he'll stop the attack. Again you're hoping that the target is stationary which he most likely won't be so you'd pretty much be counting on a very lucky shot.

 

[KansasSasquatch]

My father was a Vietnam era Marine. An MP (or whatever the Marine equivalent is/was) had modified his issued 1911. The gun had a negligent discharge, the bullet ricocheted, went through my father's right cheek, took out his entire top right side of teeth, and still had enough energy to exit his neck. It missed his artery by about 2mm. I think a .380 would do just fine if you can manage to hit most places on the head.

 

[EmGeeGeorge]

Pelvic girdle...

 

[Certaindeaf]

Pelvic girdle...

Is that like a cervical sling?

 

[TrueTexan]

My CCW instructor caries a small 22magnum loaded with rat or snake shot. He said his wife carried the same. He taught withh a gun and load like this was to shoot the eyes and that would stop the threat because they would be blind.

 

[JohnKSa]

"A tooth can definitely stop a pistol bullet" is a bit extreme.

It's not extreme at all.

If one were to say, based on a single incident that a tooth WILL definitely stop a pistol bullet, that would be extreme. There's not enough evidence in a single incident to say that teeth WILL definitely stop bullets.

On the other hand, if we have a documented incident where a tooth DID stop a pistol bullet, then it's perfectly reasonable to note that a tooth CAN definitely stop a pistol bullet. There's certainly enough evidence in a documented incident were a tooth did stop a bullet to state categorically that a tooth CAN stop a bullet.

But I would not like to say that anyone shot between the eyes with a .45 will be fine and need only a couple of aspirins.

I wouldn't either.

However, it would be accurate to say that a person shot between the eyes CAN survive it without being incapacitated and without even suffering severe injury if the circumstances work out in his favor.

There's a huge difference between the words "will" and "can".

Besides, the comment was made in response to someone else's categorical statement that teeth can't stop bullets. That is clearly not correct because the documented incident shows that teeth CAN stop pistol bullets in certain situations. It's not a given that they WILL, but we should be aware that they CAN.

 

[hirundo82]

Any of those will at least get his attention for sure. I've seen facial wounds that were just through soft tissue and only required a dressing. On the other end of the spectrum, I've seen a man shot in a driveby where the bullet entered his cheek and was lodged in the anterior arch of C1--another centimeter and he would have been killed instantly.

For ideal shooting, I train for two triangles. The larger of the two has its points on the nipples and the Adam's apple. The smaller of the two is an upside-down triangle with its points on the eyes and the tip of the nose. A straight-on shot there has the best chance of hitting the brain stem of any frontal shot, and that's the most reliable stop there is.

 

[hirundo82]

Pelvic girdle...

I've addressed this before, but briefly the pelvic shot is very overrated as a reliable stop, at least in my opinion. It is my understanding that it is used in hunting, but there is a very big difference when talking self-defense--namely the difference between quadrupeds and bipeds.

The human pelvis is a strong structure (it has to be for bipedal locomotion) with lots of redundancy, and there are only a couple of spots you could hit that are likely to stop an assailant (symphysis, femoral head/neck). I don't think it is feasible to rely on it as a self-defense shot with a pistol.

 

[Sport45]

My CCW instructor caries a small 22magnum loaded with rat or snake shot. He said his wife carried the same. He taught withh a gun and load like this was to shoot the eyes and that would stop the threat because they would be blind.

I hope his attacker isn't wearing prescription glasses. I'm pretty sure mine would stop ratshot from a reasonable distance. But I'm not going to waste a pair to find out.

 

[JohnKSa]

Any of those will at least get his attention for sure.

Read the linked information I provided. The soldier was not incapacitated in the least and didn't actually even think he had been shot. He reported that he believed that the muzzle blast had knocked out his tooth.

I hope his attacker isn't wearing prescription glasses. I'm pretty sure mine would stop ratshot from a reasonable distance.

My prescription glasses are actually prescription safety glasses. I figured, why not? You can't even tell by looking at them.

 

[Sport45]

My prescription glasses are actually prescription safety glasses. I figured, why not? You can't even tell by looking at them.

Mine too. Safevision.net has some good looking frames and shooters on staff that are very helpful.

 

[brickeyee]

You can have polycarbonate lenses put in almost any frame.

I often end up with them to save weight since negative high diopter lenses start getting heavy to wear (think coke bottle bottoms).

While they are not actual 'safety glasses' they are still going to be pretty effective against smaller threats.
And even safety glasses are not going to stop a direct bullet impact very well.

 

[Certaindeaf]

My $7 sunglasses are the bomb. 100% yada, they fit very well, look cool, they cost uh, $7 and they are ANSI approved.
That fella might want to be able to run fast at the very least. never know though

 

[Gordon]

I think a hit in the "snot locker" from 90 degrees is pretty bad from a .22 mag up. A center thorax hit from 90 degrees with .38 special up is pretty final too and relatively quick. Plenty other "deep meat" hits will take somebody out but I go for the snot locker under 15 yards if time and the center thorax otherwise.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Learn something every day.. color me gobsmacked by the snotlocker

 

[MrDig]

"snot locker"

Learn something every day.. color me gobsmacked by the snotlocker

I have not heard anyone use that since I was, well a lot younger than I am today to say the least.
Had to laugh, made me think of my wrestling coach in H.S.

 

[GRIZ22]

One shot stop with a shot to the face with a 380? That depends. I am aware of an incident where a LEO was shot it the mouth with a 380 fmj. The bullet hit his teeth and roof of the mouth, went down and exited through the bottom of his lower jaw lodging in the flesh of his chest without penetrating any bone. The LEO drew and fired 3 shots hitting the BG killing him after taking this hit. The LEO then collapsed.

A lot of one shot stop depends on luck and the tenacity of who you're shooting at. Accuracy does come first.

 

[brickeyee]

ANSI approved.

For what?

Probbaly just the lenses pass the shatterproof test.
Nothing more.

 

[Certaindeaf]

For what?

Probbaly just the lenses pass the shatterproof test.
Nothing more.

Who are you talking to? hard to tell
It's a standard certification. For sure to stop dust/ratshot easy unless it's perhaps blast/contact affected but that's not what/how it's certified.
Perhaps more.
What are you going on about? You too can have a pair!

 

[JRWhit]

I think your spending a little to much time thinking about this. I'm no doctor, but I suspect if you shoot somebody in the face, they aren't gonna want to play anymore.

 

[MachIVshooter]

I've addressed this before, but briefly the pelvic shot is very overrated as a reliable stop, at least in my opinion. It is my understanding that it is used in hunting, but there is a very big difference when talking self-defense--namely the difference between quadrupeds and bipeds.

Not usually. The POA on game animals is usually neck, shoulder or "boiler room" (heart/lung area). While a destroyed pelvis may severely impede the animal's ability to move, they still have front legs, and there's not much in the way of vitals back there. My sister hit a small hog (~70 lbs) with a .22-250 through the hips, and in the time it took us to get out of the truck and make it to where he'd been hit (30 yards away), he was gone. Luckily, his drag marks gave him away, but he'd made it a good 40-50 yards through the mesquite brush in very little time, and was still very much alive.

The human pelvis is a strong structure (it has to be for bipedal locomotion) with lots of redundancy, and there are only a couple of spots you could hit that are likely to stop an assailant (symphysis, femoral head/neck). I don't think it is feasible to rely on it as a self-defense shot with a pistol.

Definitely not. Unless one's SD handgun is a .454 Casull or some other loudenboomer, handgun rounds simply do not have the power to catastrophically damage those large bones. I suspect a .380 round, even FMJ, would be stopped cold by the femoral head and do no damage to it after having traveled through a few inches of flesh.