TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
Those look just like the ones I reload for my PTR91 with a port buffer. No dents at all, just the fluting marks that don't come completely off in the tumbler.
FAL or G3
- Thread starter zephyr89
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Those look just like the ones I reload for my PTR91 with a port buffer. No dents at all, just the fluting marks that don't come completely off in the tumbler.
Wanta B
Member
Good choice of weapons. Difficult for most to decide between as most will never beable to tell the difference as to which one is actualy the better one.I have both back home and like both systems.
This day in age,thankfully,all manure of mods are availible for BOTH of these fine weapons systems...rails,telefolding stock adaptors,,etc...mags are plentiful and inexpensive...
+FAL...Barrels...Match grade,shorty,heavy,medium,fluted or not...this area belongs to the FALs. That I am aware of VERY few,other than hard to aquire factory parts,choices for the G3 and cousins. I currently use two FALs,one "Target" 1/2"@200yrds 3-5 shots, one shorty 16" 3/4"@100yrds 3-5 shots.
+FAL...Scope mounting...Again options are better for the FALs.
+FAL...Rebuilding the Main firesystem...FALs have it again. Roler Rocker Delayed Blowback,is EXTREAMLY dificult to rebuild. It can be done but most are beter off getting a new weapon. G3 Fans,please tell us were to get this done if you have a scource and or info!
+FAL...Been all over the world,more parts out there for FALs. See more in service than the G3. Not so much of a problem in the U.S.A. save mail order delivery time tho'.
+FAL...Lower recievers can be had in many different configueations,including standard,para,M-16 rear sight,picatinny rear sight base,etc...
+++FAL...UPPERS...If you want to convert to another caliber,you can build separate uppers and switch them like an M-16. If you want to configure for a different mission/purpose build a different upper!!! G3 will NEVER do this. I currently have uppers in .243Win.,.260Rem.,7mm-08,.308Win.,.338Fed. and .358Win.,in many different configureations.
+FAL...Supressor use...Fal's gas adjust makes supressor use FAR superior. Even adjustable down to single shot "sub-manual" opperation.
+FAL...Gas Adjustable...Match grade to total crud with fine tuned reliability.
I can go on but I think you know my pick...I have tens of thousands of rounds on both systems,field and range and owne them both.
Reloading...as several have pointed out,under certain conditions brass from the G3s can be reloaded with out problems...Under certain conditions,if not adjusted properly,FALs will tare brass up and can dent the crud out of it just like the G3s.
This day in age,thankfully,all manure of mods are availible for BOTH of these fine weapons systems...rails,telefolding stock adaptors,,etc...mags are plentiful and inexpensive...
+FAL...Barrels...Match grade,shorty,heavy,medium,fluted or not...this area belongs to the FALs. That I am aware of VERY few,other than hard to aquire factory parts,choices for the G3 and cousins. I currently use two FALs,one "Target" 1/2"@200yrds 3-5 shots, one shorty 16" 3/4"@100yrds 3-5 shots.
+FAL...Scope mounting...Again options are better for the FALs.
+FAL...Rebuilding the Main firesystem...FALs have it again. Roler Rocker Delayed Blowback,is EXTREAMLY dificult to rebuild. It can be done but most are beter off getting a new weapon. G3 Fans,please tell us were to get this done if you have a scource and or info!
+FAL...Been all over the world,more parts out there for FALs. See more in service than the G3. Not so much of a problem in the U.S.A. save mail order delivery time tho'.
+FAL...Lower recievers can be had in many different configueations,including standard,para,M-16 rear sight,picatinny rear sight base,etc...
+++FAL...UPPERS...If you want to convert to another caliber,you can build separate uppers and switch them like an M-16. If you want to configure for a different mission/purpose build a different upper!!!
G3 will NEVER do this. I currently have uppers in .243Win.,.260Rem.,7mm-08,.308Win.,.338Fed. and .358Win.,in many different configureations.+FAL...Supressor use...Fal's gas adjust makes supressor use FAR superior. Even adjustable down to single shot "sub-manual" opperation.
+FAL...Gas Adjustable...Match grade to total crud with fine tuned reliability.
I can go on but I think you know my pick...I have tens of thousands of rounds on both systems,field and range and owne them both.
Reloading...as several have pointed out,under certain conditions brass from the G3s can be reloaded with out problems...Under certain conditions,if not adjusted properly,FALs will tare brass up and can dent the crud out of it just like the G3s.
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Destructo6
Member
MJ, where did you get that Namibian furniture for the HK?
NWCP
Member
My HK91 is reliable and accurate. The surplus magazines are inexpensive and I opted to put XS Ghost Rings sights on mine rather than a scope. It's a battle rifle not a target rifle, but still quite accurate. I had a trigger job done to mine and it helped tighten up my groups at 100 yards. The roller locking delayed blowback system works and is simple in design and function. The fluted chamber ensures the spent case is going to clear the chamber each and every time. As for damaged brass I don't reload and shoot military surplus. I saved my money and purchased the HK rather than a CETME, or PTR. The FAL wasn't a comfortable fit for me so it never entered the equation. If you're looking for .308 goodness in a battle rifle design the HK91 is hard to beat. JMHO
1KPerDay
Member
M1A FTW.
Though those DSA carbines are pretty... *drool*
Though those DSA carbines are pretty... *drool*
Hatterasguy
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I would buy a DSA Fal, its better built than a PTR. If you are willing to spend the money for a real H&K with a proper chrome lined barrel it would be a harder call.
IMHO dollar for dollar a DSA Fal is built better and can be had cheaper.
You really can't go wrong with either one, they are both great rifles.
IMHO dollar for dollar a DSA Fal is built better and can be had cheaper.
You really can't go wrong with either one, they are both great rifles.
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Retro
Member
The achille's heel for FAL in terms of accuracy is the way the upper and lower receivers are mated together. The scope is mounted to the upper receiver cover (which should have aftermarket screws to secure it onto the upper receiver). However, the cheek weld/stock is linked to the lower receiver, and often times, there is vertical play between the upper and lower receiver, which causes inconsistency in grouping as the cheek weld to scope line-up will be inconsistent due to the vertical play. The same problem is evident in AR10 design but there is a aftermarket screw which locks in the upper and lower receiver to solve that problem for AR10. I don't know if there is a solution for FAL. Otherwise, I like the all-milled steel receiver of FAL.
Second problem is free-floating the barrel. PTR91 is completely free-floated, but FAL is not.
Second problem is free-floating the barrel. PTR91 is completely free-floated, but FAL is not.
Hatterasguy
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You can buy Fal's with free floating barrels.
IMHO its not a nail driver and was never ment to be. Both are more than accurite enough for their intended purpose.
http://www.dsarms.com/SA58-SPR-Special-Purpose-Rifle-308-Cal----SA58SPR/productinfo/SA58SPR/
They can be tricked out to be pretty accurite though, just takes money!
IMHO its not a nail driver and was never ment to be. Both are more than accurite enough for their intended purpose.
http://www.dsarms.com/SA58-SPR-Special-Purpose-Rifle-308-Cal----SA58SPR/productinfo/SA58SPR/
They can be tricked out to be pretty accurite though, just takes money!
1KPerDay
Member
Way cool.
First off you are looking at buying a used millitary weapon. With that you should understand that the weapon most likely will not be perfect and may need some tuning unless it was built by a proffessional or someone who really knows their stuff.
I own a DSA receiver FAl with all other parts being Imbel. Mine is very accurate and has no problems and is an absolute joy to shoot. That being said I've seen DSA's that are junk maybe I got lucky but to right off DSA completely is maybe out of line.
All the cetme g3 hk91 and fal are great rifles but be prepared to work on the thing no matter what you buy.
I own a DSA receiver FAl with all other parts being Imbel. Mine is very accurate and has no problems and is an absolute joy to shoot. That being said I've seen DSA's that are junk maybe I got lucky but to right off DSA completely is maybe out of line.
All the cetme g3 hk91 and fal are great rifles but be prepared to work on the thing no matter what you buy.
iamkris
Member
I highly doubt you've seen DSAs that are junk. You MAY have seen some idiot buy a DSA receiver and slap some crap rode-hard-put-away-wet kit on it. If you buy a full up DSA StG58A or SA58 you will get a beautiful rifle made out of either completely new or new-surplus parts. You can pay $800-1000 for a crap build or $1200-2000 for a good rifle.
You are right that most Century CETME or G3s need a little work and the craftsmanship tends to be sub-par. If you buy a PTR you will be getting a top notch rifle that is as good or better than an original HK91.
Hatterasguy
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Fal builds can be really hit and miss. Thats why IMHO its just simpler to buy a known, such as a DSA or FN.
I have seen some total scrap put on good receivers and called a Fal.
I have seen some total scrap put on good receivers and called a Fal.
Wanta B
Member
Before I continue with this response,look at my post #27 earlier in this thread...I like the FAL system more than any other out,so far anyhow.
I have one DSA PARA Elite that I ordered direct from them,with a few mods done by them...It hits 18-20" low at 20 YARDS!! Total POS...Iam still too pissed to even deal with it. Now this was built by them. They have made crud as all manufactures have. I was unlucky enough to get one. Some day I will have them fix it perhaps. More than likely just a bad barrel but on that same rifle the Heavy Duty Scope mount and the picatinny on the quad rail do not match up correctly as well.
Every other DSA that I have seen is great but this one MOST certainly is not.
I have one DSA PARA Elite that I ordered direct from them,with a few mods done by them...It hits 18-20" low at 20 YARDS!! Total POS...Iam still too pissed to even deal with it. Now this was built by them. They have made crud as all manufactures have. I was unlucky enough to get one. Some day I will have them fix it perhaps. More than likely just a bad barrel but on that same rifle the Heavy Duty Scope mount and the picatinny on the quad rail do not match up correctly as well.
Every other DSA that I have seen is great but this one MOST certainly is not.
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Wanta B
Member
True FAL barrels are typicaly not free floated but this can be done very easily.
Very few of the FALs that I have seen have any play between the upper and lower recievers.Those that do have very little,certainly not enough to notice under any real world use. Some do but fixing them is not that much of a problem and then they are rock solid again.
Very few of the FALs that I have seen have any play between the upper and lower recievers.Those that do have very little,certainly not enough to notice under any real world use. Some do but fixing them is not that much of a problem and then they are rock solid again.
MJ
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I also had a bad experience with my DSA SA58 para tactical carbine. For such an expensive rifle I was expecting it to work out of the box. However after several range trips of not being able to get the damn thing to cycle a round to save my life, I took it to my local shop who noticed that they completely fudged up the gas system. Sure I could have sent it back on warranty work and waiting many months, but I was way to pissed off and sold it.
This was after I bought a DSA TP9 which would have several FTF/FTE every mag.
I am not saying DSA makes crappy products, I just have had bad luck with them.
My HK91 clone on the other hand has run without a hiccup. I will take unergonomic and reliable any day over fancy and problematic.
Wanta B
Member
Goon--Completely agree with you,thing is every time I think about it,
, I can hardly maintain a publicly acceptable demeanor. I have heard a few others,as Gelgoog,above,that have had similar experiences.As it is currently I can not do much until I get back State side.
Please keep in mind that I have other DSAs and know several folks that have them too...All with no problems. Still you are quite correct that they should be held accountable for their work.Especialy for a rifle that cost well into the high side of 2K!! AND when one considers that I have built "kit" rifles that have no problems.And have used and work with,daily,weapons that are sometimes older than I am,that still work flawlessly! Ahuh...there I go again thinking about it.
Still,the weapon system itself is VERY sound.
, I can hardly maintain a publicly acceptable demeanor. I have heard a few others,as Gelgoog,above,that have had similar experiences.As it is currently I can not do much until I get back State side.Please keep in mind that I have other DSAs and know several folks that have them too...All with no problems. Still you are quite correct that they should be held accountable for their work.Especialy for a rifle that cost well into the high side of 2K!! AND when one considers that I have built "kit" rifles that have no problems.And have used and work with,daily,weapons that are sometimes older than I am,that still work flawlessly! Ahuh...
there I go again thinking about it.Still,the weapon system itself is VERY sound.
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Wanta B
Member
Gelgoog-- I sympathize with you. I also agree with you that reliability in a weapon such as these is THE primary deciding factor. If your G3 clone works for you then run with it.
As I stated earlier,both systems are very good but I see more advantages to the FALs than the G3s. Every system will have a few bad ones now and then. Law of averages and all... See my initial post above in this thread to find why I prefer the FALs.
As I stated earlier,both systems are very good but I see more advantages to the FALs than the G3s. Every system will have a few bad ones now and then. Law of averages and all... See my initial post above in this thread to find why I prefer the FALs.
Wanta B
Member
MJ-- +1 your Nambian furnature is freakn' AWESOME! Don't see all that often here in Afrika but back in the States !!
!!
nwilliams
Member
I like the HK design but the charging handle operation keeps me from placing it above the FAL design. In a combat situation I would choose a FAL over HK rifle without question.
Here's my Stg.58, it's built from an Austrian parts kit on an Imbel receiver with just enough US parts. Great gun, lot's of fun and very accurate.
Here's my Stg.58, it's built from an Austrian parts kit on an Imbel receiver with just enough US parts. Great gun, lot's of fun and very accurate.
actually I kind of like where the charging handle is on the HK. I have more difficulty using the FAL charging handle then the HK due to the amount of leverage. Ever try getting a FAL open thats locked up? lets just say that even with a bootheel its not that easy.
Frankly the AK has the best location of a charging handle IMHO.
Frankly the AK has the best location of a charging handle IMHO.
I kind of agree about the AK's charging handle. It allows you to keep the butt braced against your shoulder as you yank back on the handle, which should hopefully allow the stuck round to come out.
Personally, I think the FAL is a bit heavy to really keep good control of from just the pistol grip, which is a bit behind the middle of the rifle, while you pull the charging handle with your left hand. I think the charging handle on the FAL makes a lot of sense if you have the bipod out and are firing from the prone. But I didn't do much of that with mine and it doesn't even have a bipod anymore.
Personally, I think the FAL is a bit heavy to really keep good control of from just the pistol grip, which is a bit behind the middle of the rifle, while you pull the charging handle with your left hand. I think the charging handle on the FAL makes a lot of sense if you have the bipod out and are firing from the prone. But I didn't do much of that with mine and it doesn't even have a bipod anymore.
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