FAL question

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I also agree that I'm not the dot gov with unlimited resources and now and then I might shoot God knows what through my rifle. I also know I've bent 2 Garand op rods because of that.


It's why I put an adjustable gas system on my Fulton M14 and my Garand.

Question about that: If you are shooting God knows what ammo through you M14 and Garand with the adjustable gas system, why wouldn't you bend the op rod on the first shot, before you have had time to see how that ammo performs, and adjust the system?
 
If you are shooting God knows what ammo through you M14 and Garand with the adjustable gas system, why wouldn't you bend the op rod on the first shot, before you have had time to see how that ammo performs, and adjust the system?

When you try something new you start with the weakest setting, same with the FAL.

It's pretty simple. Not as easy to adjust but you simply note which jet size you need for what ammo.

Here's a pic of the one Fulton sells.

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Do you agree that the SKS, AK, M1 Garand, and M1A rifles are reliable?

All of those rifles use a gas piston and none of them have an adjustable gas system. Therefore, an adjustable gas system is not needed to have a reliable rifle. And, in fact, the adjustable gas system adds too additional modes of failure if you adjust it incorrectly.

The adjustable gas system is not needed and gives you another chance to screw up the rifle.

Gee, here I was always thinking the adjustable gas system was brilliant myself....dozens of countries using the FAL and variant...several manufacturers, almost every country having its own ammo plant making thier own flavor of 7.62x51 Nato, and the adjustable gas system will make your rifle run reliably and safely on any load.

Always looked at it as a plus myself...not a negative, the overall simplicity of the design. operation and especially the field maintenance of the FAL speaks for itself. It is not rocket science.
 
Hey all!

I,just today,took my DSA Para Elite out of the safe after more than a year.
Just to let everyone hear know,I have used many others in years passed and loved them...I ordered mine custom from DSA and it COST to the tune of over 2500.00 AND took nearly 10 months to recieve.So you can imagine my excitement when I finaly got it.

This rifle has problems!!!!! Not the least of wich is the completely poor match up of the quad rail and heavy duty scope mount picatinies- about 3/16 off!!:scrutiny:
I odered this rifle with the AR sight rear reciever that DSA says interfaces with FN front sights that mine has.At 25 yrds it hits 15-18" LOW with the AR sight adjusted all the way up!!!!:fire:

I called DSA twice about this...they did not reply.It has been over a year!!:cuss:

So that is my experience with DSA.Had they backed up their product I would have a couple more FALs.

Wanta B
 
Which is odd since they have a warranty. What did DSA say when you sent it back to them?
The warranty will do you alot of good when your in a must work situation or even if your at the range target shooting. M1A's just simply work. No gas adjustments, no malfunctions, It just works and hits what you point it at. How many FAL's or for that matter how many H&K 91's do you see on the firng line at Camp Perry matches? .............................. That's right ....... NONE! .......... there is a reason for that.
Here's the reason why M1A's are the best combat rifle in the world, bar none!
Shoot N See target is open sights at 100yrds. The other is with scope at 100 yrds.
Let's see your FAL's do this
 

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My STG-58 will put 40 rds into a 5 inch cluster at 100 yds with factory sights.In fact,I shoot it better than my M1A(although I have far less time shooting the Springfield)The Fal is my favorite gun.
 
Here's the reason why M1A's are the best combat rifle in the world, bar none!
Shoot N See target is open sights at 100yrds. The other is with scope at 100 yrds.
Let's see your FAL's do this

OK lets be real honest about that M1A there (nice rifle by the way), that is nowhere near a "service rifle" as a military branch would issue. You've got serious money in many custom parts on that. Hard to compare that M1A to an off the shelf replica of a battle rifle built using surplus parts from DSA.

Take an off the shelf "service grade" M14 and a FAL and they will shoot about the same.
 
And a DSA is a service grade rifle? I've had both and hand down the M1A wins
 
And a DSA is a service grade rifle? I've had both and hand down the M1A wins

DSA is a near clone of an issue FAL. Fulton makes a near clone of an M14 as do several other companies.

I have both and without any "National Match" stuff or any aftermarket parts they both shoot about the same and they are both reliable.

The FAL was used 10-15 times as much as the M14 as well by armies around the world so it's clearly not "faulty" in any way or the M14 would have been adopted outside the US.
The iron sights on the M14 are much better than the FAL, that's probably the biggest difference in a "milspec" head to head.

Once you head into accurrizing the rifles however the FAL clearly fails. It is what it is and there isn't a lot you can do. The M14 is certainly a MUCH better platform to build on but out of the box, in a "milspec" condition, they are pretty much the same.
 
Sorry,I did neglect to mention that I have adjusted the front sight all the way down.Rear sight is adjusted all the way up.Area of impact at 25 yrds. is 15-18" low depending on ammunition.

Last night I ran a search in Google Image for STG 58,see militaryphotos.net, and ran across avery nice looking lower reciever that is a folder like mine complete with an ACE SOCOM stock,mine is the SOCOM stock but not ACE brand...this sweet looking reciever also uses the A2 rear sight just like mine only it looks to be about 1/4" higher in lowest setting than the one from DSA.I also like that this stock has no rear sling swivel,much cleaner looking than the DSA.

Wanta B
 
Sorry,I did neglect to mention that I have adjusted the front sight all the way down.

There are various height front sight posts available for the FAL. It's entirely possible DSA made a very simple mistake and just installed one that is too tall. Fulton Armory made that mistake on my shorty M14. On the shorties you need a different front post and they simply forgot. May be all that happened here.

They are a 25 bucks or you could simply get DSA to send you a shorter one under warranty.

Notice 4 sizes available:

http://www.dsarms.com/Belgian-Type-Front-Sight-US-Made/productinfo/012/
 
TexasRifleman,thank you for that information,I was not aware that there are different hieghts available...I thought that that might be the case with my rifle as it is equied with tritium from Trijicon and is a bit thicker than standard but even with the rear sight adjusted all the way up and using the base of the front sight to act as the top as the sight picture she hits 15" lowat 25 yrds.

As to the missmatch of the scope rail and the forearm quadrail,I was thinking that perhaps the barrel had not been properly fitted.:scrutiny:I have seen a few write-ups that builders have posted staiting that you have to,VERY CAREFULLY,take a sanding disc of 600 grit put a hole in the middle and give it a few spins,manualy,wipe off and trial fit...repeat as needed.However mine seems to have had this done TOO much as it is tilted to the left as veiwed from the back of the rifle.Like screwing a lid on too tightly.

Wanta B
 
And a DSA is a service grade rifle? I've had both and hand down the M1A wins
DSA is a near clone of an issue FAL. Fulton makes a near clone of an M14 as do several other companies.
Yes, the basic DSA SA-58 and the STG-series of rifles are pretty much rack grade FALs as made by FN. Ever handled a real FN-FAL? I have, and the rifle is very nicely built and machined. The action is smooth as butter. And, it is accurate.

The point is that rack grade FALs and M14s shot reasonably similarly in the accuracy department.

Is the M14 more tweakable? CV says yes. However, this might be partially biased by the fact that the M14 was shot for decades in service rifle competitions for which the FAL was not eligible. As we all know, National Match-ready M14s are "service rifles" in name only. Under the hood, they are tweaked to high heaven and are undeniably accurate. If the FAL had that many decades of institutional wisdom and tinkering behind it, where would it be accuracy-wise? I dunno...probably still behind the M14. But DSA's DM-capable FAL looks promising.

The basic point, though, is that the FAL and M14 in issued trim were comparable in accuracy.

Mike
 
who makes the more desirable and reliable versions
FN (Belgium), CAL (Canada), Lithgow (Austraia). Make sure all of the rifle's numbered parts match.

Unfortunately it is true that many shooters only experience with FALs are from poor quality makers or "gunsmiths" who build them in their garage or small shops with no real qualifications. I have fired several such guns over the years that were unreliable, recoiled excessively due to over-sized gas ports, and just plain looked terrible with junky parts and poorly cast receivers
Indeed. I don't understand why someone would assemble a bunch of diverse parts and then complain when the result is neither accurate nor reliable. :banghead:

The FAL has crummy sights
Well, you are certainly entitled to your personal opinion. But - with all due respect - that opinion counts for little, since you didn't even specify which of the FAL's various sights you were criticizing.

a trigger that is fair at best
Some are good, most are fair, some are poor: same as most other rifles.

Almost every FAL trigger can be tuned to the point where it would rate good or better. I do agree that the best FAL trigger will not be quite as good as the best M-14 trigger.

the balance just seems off to me. To me, it feels way too front heavy and very awkward to shoot offhand.
Again, you are entitled to your opinion. Personally, I find the FAL to be much superior for offhand shooting. I prefer the M-14 for prone shooting, which is not the FAL's strongpoint (many people tend to keep their supporting hand too far back, with some actually gripping the magazine. This reduces control and - of course - accuracy)

Accuracy is only fair.
Not in my experience.

The gas adjustment is a pointless complication that, if ill-adjusted, can jam the rifle (been there, done that).
No, it's a desirable feature that permits effective launching of rifle grenades and tweaking for use with ammunition of various origins and in different environmental conditions. It also facilitates maximum recoil reduction consistant with reliability.

Before this post, I had never even heard the gas regulator criticized. It is certainly not complicated. Many thousands of private infantrymen have used it without problems. So have generations of cadets. If they can handle it, so can any reasonably intelligent recreational shooter.

FAL magazines are far less sturdy than M14 magazines and are the only ones that I've ever had the base plate pop off, dumping the rounds at my feet.
Again, your views might be more credible if they weren't so general. FAL magazines are not all the same. The imperial magazines are much stronger than the metric verisons (the L1A1s and C1A1s can use both, which is another reason to prefer those rifles).

FWIW, I have never experienced a failure with either imperial or metric FAL magazines.

The FAL can be scoped, but the scope mount is a bit of a kludge.
I agree. But then, a (heavy, bulky, fragile) scope on a battle rifle isn't usually desireable anyway. The C1A1's disc rear sight is perfectly adequate for the purposes for which the FAL was designed. If one wishes to shoot > 500 yds, a bolt action or falling block is a better choice.
 
Well, there you have it................ clear as mud ...... as usual :banghead:
 
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