FAL question

[Ash]

YMMV, and mine has varied tremendously. My m1a was hardly any more accurate than my FAL but more than twice the cost. The FAL sights are great, certainly ideal for any combat rifle. Indeed, given combat ranges, the FAL sights, especially the L1A1 versions, are more usable than the tiny peep.

Ash

 

[JustAnotherPlinker]

Having shot both I can say I like the FAL more. If you strip it down to the essentials (no bipod or other tacticool stuff hanging off it) it does seem to be lighter than a stock M1A.

The M1A is more accurate though.

 

[W.E.G.]

The M1A is more accurate though.

I know 46 guys who (say they) have FAL's that can reliably hold 2 MOA.
See http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=241840

you can't break open the rifle because the bolt carrier is not all the way forward

What?

I can "break open" my FAL with the bolt carrier in any partial-battery position.
You must be thinking of the mousegun. That's the one you can't get open if the carrier is jammed in a partial-battery position.

 

[HorseSoldier]

Certainly the M14 beats the FAL in just about every area

For guys who want to pour money into getting a 1 MOA gun for benchrest use or long-range performance, perhaps.

On the other hand, put a bone-stock M14 and a bone-stock FAL on a clock and run them through an actually combat-marksmanship focused course of fire, and (while neither is particularly ideal, being stuck with 7.62x51) the FAL will win hands down. It's simply a better platform, ergonomically speaking, for real world use at real combat ranges.

I'm sure someone will be along presently to stomp their foot loudly and tell me how wrong I am, but I doubt that person will have actually tried the test I just described . . .

 

[Al Thompson]

Ten FAL magazines - 100.00 bucks. Ten M1A/M14 magazines - what, 350.00?

Pretty clear advantage right there.

Buy both, sell the one you like least. Or keep both -

 

[JustAnotherPlinker]

Quote:
The M1A is more accurate though.

I know 46 guys who (say they) have FAL's that can reliably hold 2 MOA.
See http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showt...hreadid=241840


Quote:
you can't break open the rifle because the bolt carrier is not all the way forward

What?

I can "break open" my FAL with the bolt carrier in any partial-battery position.
You must be thinking of the mousegun. That's the one you can't get open if the carrier is jammed in a partial-battery position.

Well my opinion is based on shooting my dad's SA M1A bone stock alongside my Stg-58. The brand spanking new M1A was landing 1.5" groups with surplus port in a leadsled and my FAL did 2.5". Could have been the bipod I suppose..

 

[Bwana John]

Quote:
Originally Posted by BwanaJohn
Just about everybody experiances "problems" with the FAL
adjustable system. The adjustable gas system is a mistake.
Hmm, kinda surprised to hear you of all people say that.

The world must be ending

You guys complain about a FAL when you cant get it to run in 150 rounds.

It took 3k rounds until my first FAL was deadnut reliable. (but I started with worn out parts, a out-of-spec Entreprise receiver, a hammer, Vise grips, and a blow-torch).

I concider the rebuilt, untuned, FAL to be one of the most unreliable rifles that are out there.

Making them work is part of the fun.

 

[MyTFAL]

I like FAL's
anyone who wants to read about their reliability go here
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68486

Most modern assault rifles use a gas system based on the FAL
Sig 556, DSA Z4-GTC,HK 417, Robinson arms: xcr, Magpul Masada, FN SCAR,
AR-180B, LWRC, Knight Armament,etc etc.

The next U.S. issue weapon will most likely be based on the FAL gas system. With the exception of the Ruger Mini-14,and Mini-30, will someone please list the current assault weapons that are based on the M1A? chirp..chirp..chirp

 

[hso]

I have both FALs and M1As. I like both for different reasons.

If I were grabbing something to drag through the mud and brush, handle easily, that would tolerate variable manufacture ammo and would be working under 500 yards I'd grab the FAL.

If I wanted accuracy beyond 500 yard and I had good quality consistent ammo I'd grab the M1A (and it's scope).

 

[Grayrider]

2-3 MOA at best? Hmm....I thought I was really firing my FALs when I went to the range. Was I mistaken and shooting an M1A? Perhaps age really is getting to me.....



(Just kidding you 1911, all we can do in life is go by what we see and of course each of us have different experiences).

John

 

[TexasRifleman]

You guys complain about a FAL when you cant get it to run in 150 rounds.

Both of my DSA's were running fine within the first couple of magazines and have been ever since.

I'm just wondering why you think the adjustable gas system is a mistake. Seems like a pretty good idea to me, wondering what I'm missing since so many people dislike it.

 

[Ash]

Evidently the Soviets liked it because the SVD has one and it is touted as a tremendous advantage over the PSL's non-adjustable system (regardless of short or long recoil, the non-adjustability of the PSL compared to the SVD is also lamented).

Ash

 

[HorseSoldier]

I don't think military forces issuing the FAL ever had problems with the adjustable gas system -- guys were able to grasp it with even sketchy basic training (or possibly some of the dodgier forces that issued it may have made system adjustment an NCO only task or something I guess), and the rifles tend to run pretty well when dialed in. (Which has also been my experience with both mil issue StG-58s as well as my DSA Para and even Century Rhodesian parts kit gun.)

The only times I've had reliability issues relating to the gas system is when shooting different bullet weights and loads in one sitting -- my experience has been that, for instance, switching to heavier than 147-150 grain bullet weights can require tweaking the gas system. This seems like it isn't an issue for either military use or civilian shooters interested in accuracy, so I'd think it's only a liability for real cheap plinking or those with an eye towards going Road Warrior in a hypothetical TEOTWAWKI scenario where you've got a mag's worth of random bullets with which to outfight the next guy for the last can of spam on the planet.

 

[Bwana John]

I'm just wondering why you think the adjustable gas system is a mistake. Seems like a pretty good idea to me, wondering what I'm missing since so many people dislike it.

It is extrainious. It is somthing else to go wrong. It "seems" like a good idea and it "might" be in equatorial Africa during the rainy season using ammo reloaded with IMR-elephant dung powder and a pair of vice-grips as a reloading press. The AK currently does just fine in this roll, and isnt hampered by any adjustable gas system

Many other small arms have been very sucsessful without it.

I have never had to Pogo an M-1A or M-1 or AR or AK because of a gas setting.

 

[TexasRifleman]

I have never had to Pogo an M-1A or M-1 or AR or AK because of a gas setting.

Fair enough, but how many bent op rods you see on FALs (other than they don't have one lol)

I have gas relief valves on my M1A and Garand so I can shoot commercial ammo that might be higher pressure without worrying about bending an op rod.

With both systems it comes down to ammo I guess. If you have a steady source of known performing ammo you're good. If you're buying whatever is available and in stock the adjustment comes in handy.

 

[Coronach]

People whine way too much about the FAL's gas adjustment.

Seriously, it's not that big of a hassle. I've kept mine on "5" ever since I got it. I've played around with it, and it's not hard to figure out.

What do you mean, I might have to turn a dial? This is too complicated.

Returning to the original question:

Avoid:

Anything with an aluminum/alloy upper receiver.

Anything with the words Hesse, Vulcan, or Century associated with it.

Anything that looks like the gunplumber might not know what he is doing (tool marks, anything that looks bent, forced, dremelled or ground).

Things to look favorably upon:

Springfield SAR-48s.

Anything FN.

Anything with the name DSA on it (it's no guarantee its good, but the rifle does have a warranty).

Imbel receivers (again, not an assurance of quality assembly, but the base receiver is good).

I believe AZEX and ARS are good assemblers, also, but I have no experience with them.

The problem with FALs is that no large maker (except DSA) really makes them for sale in the US anymore. This results in a lot of small makers assembling parts from kits or new stock, and this means that the quality will vary from truly outstanding to truly horrid. There's just so much variance it's hard to give a definitive list.

Mike

 

[Wolfgang2000]

You might try this link. I bought the carbine version, I love it.

http://www.entreprise.com/RiflesSTG58C.htm

 

[powermad]

Good grief, 200 - 3K rounds to break it in.

It is a pretty simple system. How in the world folks screw it up is beyond me.

After I built mine it took about 15 rounds to set the gas and adjust the sights.
Done deal. It has eaten any ammo I have tried in it with no malfunctions.

From some of the posts I have read I am wondering if you shouldn't just stick to a sling shot.
It seems that would be a lot easier and less confusing to you.

If I can pop a 20 OZ water bottle at 100 yds and a milk jug at 400 with the supplied iron sights with my 40 year old eyes over and over and not on a bench...

What more do ya want out of a Battle rifle for crying out loud??

If I want to pick Quarters off a fence post at 100yards I'll grab the bolt gun.

 

[Bwana John]

Fair enough, but how many bent op rods you see on FALs (other than they don't have one lol)

Actually the BATF says they do. We call it a "charging or cocking handle".

Ill bet Ive seen more bent gas pistons than youve seen bent op-rods.

Good grief, 3K rounds to break it in.

No, not to break in, but to be dead-nut reliable.

If you started with a wornout Turk G-1 kit, and an out-of-spec Entreprise receiver, and $0.13/round delivered ammo you would understand. Everything that could be wrong with that rifle was. It might have taken replacing every single part except the barrel and receiver (and I had to file and drill on those), adding weld on a couple of parts, and 3k of ammo to do it but >10k later it still runs like a raped ape.

From some of the posts I have read I am wondering if you shouldn't just stick to a sling shot.
It seems that would be a lot easier and less confusing to you.

You talking to me? and what am I "confused" about on this weapon system?

Nothing is perfect, and just because it's your favorite MBR dosent mean it dosent have its faults.

What more do ya want out of a Battle rifle for crying out loud??

I want a better trigger, better adjustable sights, a self-adjusting gas system, lighter overall weight, 7mm bore, a bolt/bolt carrier lock up that is not affected by how many rounds are in the mag, a bigger mag release, a more ergo pistol grip, less wobble between the upper and lower, and the return of cheap parts kits and $179 Imbel receivers and free Para kits for everybody.

I want it all.

 

[MyTFAL]

I am still waiting........
"Most modern assault rifles use a gas system based on the FAL
Sig 556, DSA Z4-GTC,HK 417, Robinson arms: xcr, Magpul Masada, FN SCAR,
AR-180B, LWRC, Knight Armament,etc etc.

The next U.S. issue weapon will most likely be based on the FAL gas system. With the exception of the Ruger Mini-14,and Mini-30, will someone please list the current assault weapons that are based on the M1A? chirp..chirp..chirp"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[TexasRifleman]

$0.13/round delivered ammo you would understand.

Stop. I'm going to cry......

 

[M1911]

I'm just wondering why you think the adjustable gas system is a mistake. Seems like a pretty good idea to me, wondering what I'm missing since so many people dislike it.

Do you agree that the SKS, AK, M1 Garand, and M1A rifles are reliable?

All of those rifles use a gas piston and none of them have an adjustable gas system. Therefore, an adjustable gas system is not needed to have a reliable rifle. And, in fact, the adjustable gas system adds too additional modes of failure if you adjust it incorrectly.

The adjustable gas system is not needed and gives you another chance to screw up the rifle.

Simplicity is a good thing.

 

[redneckrepairs]

Voland In all honesty buying a fal pattern rifle today is like buying a bridge . First off is the fact that it is likely that NO ONE will offer a fn built fal in your budget . You are likely today in the usa to buy a " parts gun " . A parts gun is a set of parts on a new reciever . All the parts may match up , and it may shoot well , but none the less someone built it on a new upper ( on the fal the upper is the serial no that counts ) . You cant go wrong with a DSA rifle , they build them well tho spendy imho) . I shoot a fal , it will shot into the top quarter of a 5 gallon bucket at a quarter mile with almost no effort on my part . My fal is not a DSA. It is a parts gun that wears an undated ( for the snobs ) imbel reciever . Mine happens to be metric pattern but honestly for the non " fal " folk here the main diference between metrace and inch is the mags the rifle might take . An L1 ( inch pattern ) might take a mag from my metric rifle , My rifle Wont take a mag built for the inch pattern . Cheap mags are metrec mags , but dont dispare the english ( inch ) pattern rifles may well feed some metric mags fine . I find that i can shoot " minute of bucket " ( with the bucket being a standard 5 gallen plastic hydrolic bucket ) out to over a half mile . come sun down i cannot reliably hit a coyote at 50 yards or so . The sights on a fal do a journymans job at regestered ranges , and good light for me . On dark light and bears i have learned to love the " ghost ring " on the ar sights , and also just shoot a lot at once.

 

[TexasRifleman]

Do you agree that the SKS, AK, M1 Garand, and M1A rifles are reliable?

I agree that the Garand and M1A are reliable with gov issue ammo.

I also agree that I'm not the dot gov with unlimited resources and now and then I might shoot God knows what through my rifle. I also know I've bent 2 Garand op rods because of that.


It's why I put an adjustable gas system on my Fulton M14 and my Garand.

If I had one and only one source of ammo I'd be good, but I don't.

Just because the M14 and Garand don't have an adjustable gas system doesn't mean that adjustable gas systems are a bad idea.

 

[outofbattery]

I've had cheapy Century/Imbel/Lithgow and Century/Imbel/BSA FAL's that have run 100% flawless for years.Are the DSA's 2 or 3 times the gun? Maybe for some but not for my purposes.I don't have fantasies that I'm one day going to use them "for serious social work" in current slang,I use em to shoot paper and whatever pumpkins,spaghetti squash and so on is handy at 100 yards.They were cheap,run well and are fun.With SKS's moving up towards $300 and WASR's pushing an incredible $500,I'm not going to pass up another cheap Century if I come across it.