Fast shooting run-and-gun bolt action rifle

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Armed012002

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I've been toying around with the idea of a fast shooting run-and-gun bolt action rifle chambered in .308 Winchester.

This would be similar to Jeff Cooper's scout rifle.

Requirements are:

  1. Able to shoot well from standing, kneeling, sitting, and prone positions.
  2. Able to hit accurately at 100 yards to 500 yards.
  3. Able to engage multiple targets very quickly.
  4. Able to reload very quickly.
  5. Able to shoulder quickly and quick handling.

This rifle can be used as a general purpose rifle while accurate enough for "social purposes".

Hitting multiple targets as fast as possible with a bolt action rifle is extremely fun :D

What I came up with is:

  • Remington 700 LTR
  • Manners MCS-T Stock with 90% carbon-fiber shell
  • Manners MCS-DBM Chassis
  • Manners Adjustable Butt Spacer System
  • Talley Lightweight Scope Mounts
  • Trijicon Accupoint TR24 1-4x 30mm Scope
  • AICS 10 Round Magazines
  • Galco Safari Ching Sling

I'm thinking this configuration is going to be too heavy.

According to Remington, the 700 LTR weighs 7.5 pounds. Remington also lists the 700 SPS at 7.25 pounds. So the LTR is very close to a standard hunting rifle in weight.

How would you configure a fast shooting run-and-gun bolt action rifle?
 
I think Ruger's new m77 Gun Site Scout would fit your requirements quite well.

I have been looking very hard at that rifle. I will probably be getting one in the next month or so.

Sent from my Ally using Tapatalk
 
Savage Model 10 Precision Carbine in 308.

7 lbs and probably just as many accessories available as the Remy.

They also offer a Model 10 FCM scout rifle with scope mount and ghost ring sights as well. It is only 6.5 lbs and offered in 308 and 7.62x39.

Winchester M-70 Coyote light is about 7.5 lbs in 308, but doesn't have the price advantage of the savage or the extras.
 
Bolt action < fast shooting. Aside from the Blaser, an AR15 upper with cut down BCG and bolt handle could do it - or a lever action, like the BLR. Straight pull actions, or lever actions, are inherently faster than a turn bolt that has to be lifted, retracted, pushed, and turned down.

Add that you lose sight picture doing it with a bolt gun, which forces reacquiring it every shot. The best example of a challenge would be a herd of pigs - getting off four or five shots at the group would be considerably slower with a bolt gun than semi auto. Accepting the challenge as is, I wouldn't use a turn bolt, especially one the forces me to break cheek weld and lose the sight picture.

Then consider recoil - the .308 isn't a soft shooting round. It will push back, and without a muzzle device, the barrel will rise under recoil. That will take more time to reacquire a sight picture, slowing the process further.

As a package, it would be challenging to reduce the cycle time of a bolt gun, get a new sight picture and consistent cheek weld, deal with the recoil, and still result in a fast string of accurate shots. Most hunters and professional military abandoned the effort in the late thirties because it cannot be done as nicely as an intermediate caliber self loading rifle.

It doesn't mean it can't be done - but it's more a personal challenge. In the broader spectrum of firearms use, it has three strikes against it, and plenty of modern designs to make it uncompetitive.
 
The latest CDNN has a new Russian straight pull in .308. I'd look at one of those for what you want. Russian stuff generally looks a little rough, but is 110% reliable and quality where needed.
 
keep in mind lots of folks compete with "match rifles" in NRA HP across the course which defines "rapid fire" as 10 rounds in 60 seconds standing to sitting with a mag change. if your target was bigger than 3" at 200 yrds, you could probably shoot that a good bit faster.


fwiw, shooting bolt guns quickly at steel targets is my favorite kind of shooting.
 
All of the requirements...

you stated are the responsibility of the shooter, not the gun. Most of the items you want can be had by practice with most any rifle. Buy a Swiss K31 and install a Darrell scout mounted scope and be done with it......chris3
 
In the run'n'shoot competitions at Gunsite, those who used rifles of the Scout sort were commonly the winners. The needs are to deal with varying distances while on the move, and targets which are unseen until some shooting lane becomes apparent.

Three choices, now; Steyr, Savage and Ruger.

In building my own scout-type rifle, I'd worry less about overall length. I would go with the forward mounting of the scope and stay with the light weight. The Ching sling seems desirable for any hunting rifle. The other criteria would be less important.
 
Would a 24" hunter profile barrel be preferable to a 20" heavy/LTR profile? Both weigh about the same if I'm not mistaken.

How does a forward mounted scope compare to a 1x to 4x scope mounted above the receiver in the "standard way"?

The low magnification variable power scope is the key to my configuration in my mind. Perhaps I've overlooked this aspect?
 
The 20" heavy profile is the way to go. stiffer and handles heat better.

I have a 3-9 on my LTR that's my go to rifle and a 7 round extended magazine box. i am planning on getting a manners stock with DBM when i get the money.
 
i prefer the low-power variable, though for a scout type gun, i'd take a 2.5-10 over the 1-4x. more importantly, if you want to make hits quickly, you will need a reticle that facilitates holdover.

detachable mags are good if you're going to do any sort of competition. if you're strictly looking for a trail/backpack gun, an internal mag is fine and i think would save some weight.
 
Most any bolt gun would do. There are several made specifically for scout rifles. I had the Savage for a while, but found I could shoot it just as fast, and more accurately, with a low powered scope mounted conventionally.

Forget a lever gun and just put in the time to learn how to work the boltgun fast. There is virually zero difference is shooting speed when you compare bolt guns to leverguns in rifle calibers. All those fast levergun shooters are using low powered pistol calibers that require much less lever throw than the leverguns in rifle calibers. Much less recoil to overcome as well.
 
Ruger Gunsite was developed to fit all of these requirements.... no modifications necessary
 
I've been working towards just this rifle.

I had a Left Handed LTR built several years ago, for use as a general purpose rifle. THe stock, which is the HS precision stock used for the VLS, is not to my liking, so i plan to replace it with the manners. all up, my rifle will be very similar to yours except for the scope and mounts, which on mine is a laupold VX-II 3-9X40 in the IBA one piece mount.
 
How would you configure a fast shooting run-and-gun bolt action rifle?
Click to expand...

Pretty much as you have. If you are using detachable magazines an aft mounted scope is not in the way of loading. Furthermore, dropping out the magazine makes most kinds of stoppages easy and fast to clear.

As to getting the weight down, you can only consider the usual suspects, the lock, stock and barrel. :D There have been all sorts of things tried, skeletonized receivers, Ti alloy receivers, fluted bolts, carbon fiber wrapped barrels, drilled out stocks, etc.

Or you could just go with one of the factory scouts, as already mentioned. If you don't like the scope forward, mount it aft. Savage's "Precision Carbine" also warrants a look; even if you don't care for the rifle it might give you some ideas.

http://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C...id=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=savage+precision+carbine
 
There is virually zero difference is shooting speed when you compare bolt guns to leverguns in rifle calibers.
Click to expand...
Statements like this only come from boltgun-only shooters and is no more than wishful thinking. Given equal skill, the lever will ALWAYS be quicker to operate than a bolt. It is physically impossible to operate a traditional bolt action as quickly as a lever. The lever gives up very, very little if anything to an automatic for controlled, aimed fire.
 
JMR's got a point. in actual rifle calibers, the recoil impulse is taking up enough time that the difference in speed between a bolt and lever is small. also, no levers use detachable magazines of greater than 5 round capacity.
 
Tommy finger, anyone?

Over on my blog I put together what I've found out about working a bolt action quickly. I'm not taking sides on whether a bolt is as fast as a lever--I'm not so hot with either one. :D

I figure self-loaders were invented for a reason. That reason was to put an end to this line of discussion. It didn't work. :rolleyes:
 
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