Fast shooting run-and-gun bolt action rifle

[henschman]

How about a M1903A3 with a .308 barrel?

Not too heavy nor too long, loads quickly from the top with stripper clips, excellent sights, smooth bolt.

Throw a M1/M-14 GI web sling on it, with an extra hook up front so it is QD with a loop sling, and run with it! Who needs a scope with those excellent iron sights?

 

[rogertc1]

The true kick ass ...here
with the enfield action at top 7.62XS39 (AK MAG) it is fast
sweatest rifle:

top one can you identify?

 

[gunnutery]

I second an Enfield.

 

[Jon_Snow]

Add that you lose sight picture doing it with a bolt gun, which forces reacquiring it every shot.

Not necessarily true. I can work my long bolt actions without moving my head from the stock. It is a little disconcerting at first to pull the bolt back almost to your eye, but you get used to it eventually.

 

[crazyivan]

The OP said he wanted to be able to shoot prone.

Have never shot a lever-action but I have heard that you cant shoot them prone too well.

 

[HexHead]

Of course, if you really wanted FAST, you would build something on the SMLE action. I believe there was a .308 variant...

That's what I was thinking too. No.4 Mk1. They didn't call it the "mad minute" for nothing.

 

[Phaethon]

I love how someone starts a thread specifically discussing bolt rifles, and people instead insist that they should use an AR-15 or some other semi-automatic.

I'd probably use a Swiss K31.

• It's carbine length, at around 43 inches.
• The straight pull bolt action is both fast, and simpler to work in prone position than a turn-bolt.
• 6 round capacity
• Renowned for their accuracy and clean tangent sights
• Easy and notoriously fast to feed through stripper clips

The only problems I could forsee are that it's a little sensitive to dirt (so I hear), it's pretty heavy at around 9 lbs, and it's stripper-loaded rather than detachable-magazine fed. However, the stipper clips are a pretty novel design and keep the rounds lined up from all points, allowing you to push them down in the rough centre for better leverage. They seem a little faster than Mauser chargers, which in my opinion is a pretty damn fast way to load a bolt-action rifle as it is.

If you wanted to shed weight, though, then maybe you could find an aftermarket polymer stock; I assume you would want one anyway given the stress you'd put it under and the fact that most of them are pretty chewed up anyway. Add to that any other crazy tactical accessories, so long as you don't mind gutting the rifle, and I think you have a really interesting platform.

 

[rogertc1]

http://www.australianinternationalarms.com.au/

 

[Sistema1927]

Would I be stupid to suggest SMLE?

Not at all. My pseudo-Scout was built from an Ishapore 2A1. Barrel cut back to 19", syn stock, Leupold Scout scope mounted forward. A very handy little carbine, even if it doesn't technically meet all of the Colonel's requirements.

Not a Scout, but another handy carbine is my Mk. 5 Jungle Carbine. It is my truck gun, along with 65 rounds of ammo in stripper clips.

 

[jmr40]

Today, 05:14 PM #22
CraigC
Member



Join Date: January 27, 2006
Location: West Tennessee
Posts: 2,699 Quote:
There is virually zero difference is shooting speed when you compare bolt guns to leverguns in rifle calibers.

Statements like this only come from boltgun-only shooters and is no more than wishful thinking. Given equal skill, the lever will ALWAYS be quicker to operate than a bolt. It is physically impossible to operate a traditional bolt action as quickly as a lever. The lever gives up very, very little if anything to an automatic for controlled, aimed fire.

Spoken like someone who has never bothered to master the bolt gun.


I've shot plenty of levers. Got a challenge for you. Put a paper plate up at 50 yards and fire a bolt gun vs lever action "IN A RIFLE CALIBER". First shooter to put 3 shots in the plate wins. Some shooters my be a touch faster with the lever, others with the bolt, but there will be only a fraction of a second difference either way. Assuming equal skill as you say.

Now if you want to just spray lead at no target the lever may have an advantage. Especially the low recoiling pistol calibers with a short lever throw.

Virtually all Professional hunters guiding for dangerous game prefer the bolt gun and I've seen video of them emptying their guns amazingly fast. Like anything else it just requires putting in the time to master the skills.

Just to add the Military seriously considered the levergun at the begining of the 20th century. They were tested along with bolt guns. The levers failed and the bolt gun was adopted. Among other things it was found that there was virtually no diference in how fast the shooter could operate the rifle. Not to mention faster reloading, better accuracy, more powerful chamberings and much better reliability.

 

[deputy tom]

I also suggest a .303 Enfield.tom.

 

[TonyAngel]

Since this is a suggestion thread, this is what I'd do.

First I'd get me a Remington 700 action, by either just buying one or finding and ADL or other cheap rifle for the action. This will run you about $300.

Second, I'd get me a nice light stock with a good recoil pad. My preference would be a McMillan, but I could settle for a Bell & Carlson if money was tight. Figure $200 for the B&C.

Third, I'd get an 18" Krieger barrel in a sporter profile. It's a good barrel and you'll experience minimal POI shift as the barrel gets hot. Figure $600 for the barrel and the labor cutting it. Or you could erase the Remington and replace it with Savage and save a little on labor.

Fourth, $100 on a Shilen trigger.

Lastly, I'd top it off with a Nightforce 2.5-10X32. Figure $1500.

Yeah, I've been putting thought into a similar project too. I really love bolt guns these days. I know a guy that can put three rounds into a 6" target at one hundred yards off hand in under five seconds or pretty close to it. He really inspired me and I am going to build this rifle. I just haven't decided if I want to stay with Remington, since I already have the action or if I want to start all over and get a Steven action and go the Savage route, leaving the way open for barrel changes as I see fit.

I've also considered Bergara barrels. At $325 in a do it yourself kit, they seem appealing.

 

[TonyAngel]

Quick update, Bergara does have a kit that includes a 24" Sporter barrel in a do it yourself kit for a Remmy for $300. I might just do this myself.

 

[CraigC]

I have heard that you cant shoot them prone too well.

Not true. Only takes a flick of the wrist to cycle the action. Takes more movement to manipulate a boltgun.

 

[geologist]

LE No. 5 carbine. It'll satisfy most of your requirements as is. The 500 yard shots with the aperture sights might be a challenge though.

TBS it is probably the fastest cycling bolt action, it has a short range battle aperture that functions like a ghost ring sight, it has a 10 round box magazine, it is short and light and packs a big punch with 180gr softpoints.

2nd up from the bottom.

 

[taliv]

Only takes a flick of the wrist to cycle the action.

i don't think it's the wrist flicking people are questioning. it's the fact that the ground is in the way, obstructing the lever's path. you would have to raise up or rotate the gun from a traditional prone position.

further, if your elbow is on the ground, then you can't move your arm forward or backward, so it would either be in an optimal position to support your natural point of aim as you pull the trigger, or it would be far enough forward to reach the lever at the end of its throw to pull it back. try it.

 

[CraigC]

Got a challenge for you.

It's already been noted that I can shoot two deer in a sitting so quickly that it sounds like an automatic. If I didn't already KNOW how quickly each action can be cycled, I wouldn't be posting.

Virtually all Professional hunters guiding for dangerous game prefer the bolt gun...

Not too many .470Nitro Express leverguns around at the turn of the century. These days, the only thing preventing the lever from becoming popular in Africa is perception.

Just to add the Military seriously considered the levergun at the begining of the 20th century. They were tested along with bolt guns. The levers failed and the bolt gun was adopted.

Boltguns were adopted because the military was still 20yrs behind the curve and worried about soldiers wasting ammo. Let us not forget that the Winchester 1895 was used by the US military and its highest production numbers were those built in 7.62x54R for the Russian military.

Especially the low recoiling pistol calibers with a short lever throw.

The only thing with a "short" lever throw is an 1873 with a short stroke kit or a modern Browning. They're all virtually the same in stroke, while the "rifle length" 1895 is the shortest. Actually the 1873 in stock form has the longest stroke of all my leverguns, even though it utilizes the shortest cartidges. If you really had spent much time with leverguns, you would know all this and that cartridge length has nothing to do with the length of the lever's stroke.

i don't think it's the wrist flicking people are questioning. it's the fact that the ground is in the way, obstructing the lever's path. you would have to raise up or rotate the gun from a traditional prone position.

Do you guys ever try this stuff before posting? If I shoot my Winchester 1895 from the prone position, which has the longest lever of any levergun I own (two inches longer than an 1894), the lever is four to five inches from the ground at the bottom of the stroke. The 30rd magazine on an AR is longer. So it can all be done without moving anything but the strongside hand.

 

[taliv]

then you must take a much higher prone position than I do. normally, when i shoot a rifle in prone, the toe of the stock is no more than 2" from the ground, due to the bean bag. It would simply not be possible to operate the lever without getting out of position.

i love the two lever guns I have. Shoot them all the time and they're a lot of fun. But they have no advantage operationally over a bolt gun.

 

[Art Eatman]

Enough wandering. Lever actions aren't bolt guns...