FBI "framed" men; lied for almost 40 years.
- Thread starter F4GIB
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Most, if not all, have probably passed away by now.
Cosmoline wrote:
Cos,
Respectfully, I dont' think framing, withholding evidence, purjury, and malicious prosecution (among others) is within the scope of what I would call vital roles. Sure, I know we are talking about once incident in a long history of the organization. Still, I watch documentaries constantly that discuss over-stepping of powers of this organization during that period of time.
I remember how people would think you were a tin-foil hat-wearing nutjob if you told of what the CIA did during the Cold War such as testing LSD on US soldiers. Only now, through the Freedom of Information Act, we KNOW it was true. It must be now.... I say it on CNN and Foxnews.
Yet, we NEED an intelligence agency, too. And they've done some valuable things for this country.
I still do not condone the inappropriate acts of either agency.
-- John
Cosmoline
Member
Did you look in the Constitution? Because I'm telling you, federal criminal law and law enforcement are at the core of it. I mean, how could we have a Republic without federal criminal law? It's not like we'd just invent federal criminal law enforcement to impose an insane federal booze law. And if we did, it's not like we'd forget to disband those agencies after that booze law was repealed. And there's no way we'd expand it after the booze law was gone, to fight an imaginary crime wave. And there's absolutely no way it would become the personal mob of a very odd cross-dresser who would use it to blackmail Presidents. There's just no way!
JohnBT
Member
"Only now, through the Freedom of Information Act, we KNOW it was true."
I wouldn't say "only now." John
"On the Senate floor in 1977, Senator Ted Kennedy said:
The Deputy Director of the CIA revealed that over thirty universities and institutions were involved in an 'extensive testing and experimentation' program which included covert drug tests on unwitting citizens 'at all social levels, high and low, native Americans and foreign.' Several of these tests involved the administration of LSD to 'unwitting subjects in social situations.' At least one death, that of Dr. Olson, resulted from these activities. The Agency itself acknowledged that these tests made little scientific sense. The agents doing the monitoring were not qualified scientific observers.[4]"
I wouldn't say "only now." John
"On the Senate floor in 1977, Senator Ted Kennedy said:
The Deputy Director of the CIA revealed that over thirty universities and institutions were involved in an 'extensive testing and experimentation' program which included covert drug tests on unwitting citizens 'at all social levels, high and low, native Americans and foreign.' Several of these tests involved the administration of LSD to 'unwitting subjects in social situations.' At least one death, that of Dr. Olson, resulted from these activities. The Agency itself acknowledged that these tests made little scientific sense. The agents doing the monitoring were not qualified scientific observers.[4]"
John.... Sure we do. It isn't "True" until we see it on Foxnews and CNN.
On the floor of the Senate? Nah... that's just some nutjob making it up. If it was said on the floor of the Senate, why didn't the media have it pasted all over the place????
And the above is exactly how it seems a lot of people think.
Just recently, the CIA report came up in a conversation. The response from the those at the table was "Oh, that's all those "government conspiracies" your crazy Uncle used to talk about."
I responded that they must not have been watching the news this week-- The CIA admitted to it and it's been on Fox all week. Just to push it, I added "It's funny. Everyone thought Uncle ____ was crazy. Now, we find out he was right. I wonder what other crazy things he said that are absolutely true?"
You could see a bit of guilt and uncertainty in everyone's face. They really were hard on my Uncle behind his back.
-- John
Turkey Creek
Member
I've been convinced for a long time that if "they" want you, '''they" are gonna get you- How much worse would it be without the 2A?-
JohnBT
Member
"If it was said on the floor of the Senate, why didn't the media have it pasted all over the place????"
It was. I can't cite chapter and verse of where and when, but then it was 30 years ago. I know it was a few years after I finished grad school in 1973 when it made the news.
Okay, there's lots out there. Here's an article from TIME magazine dated August 1977. www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,915244,00.html
Part of it:
"At night, women lured men to the hideaways and fed them LSD or marijuana, while other men watched the action through two-way mirrors and tape-recorded the sounds.
Scenes from seamy bordellos? Havens for desperate voyeurs? No, these were taxpayer-financed operations of the CIA, which was experimenting with drugs during the 1950s and '60s in a project with the sophomoric code name Midnight Climax. The women, apparently moonlighting prostitutes, were paid $100 for each assignment by the CIA. The operation, conducted by CIA alchemists from 1954 until 1963, was part of a quarter-century hunt for a psychogenic philosophers' stone. The purpose was to discover the secret of brainwashing, to protect U.S. agents and gain control over enemy spies.
Operation Midnight Climax was disclosed last week at a Senate hearing, adding bizarre details to the story of CIA drug research exposed in 1975 and 1976 by Government investigations."
In conclusion, after years and years of thoughtless stunts, why is anyone surprised when a rogue element rears its ugly head - in government or anywhere else.
John
It was. I can't cite chapter and verse of where and when, but then it was 30 years ago. I know it was a few years after I finished grad school in 1973 when it made the news.
Okay, there's lots out there. Here's an article from TIME magazine dated August 1977. www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,915244,00.html
Part of it:
"At night, women lured men to the hideaways and fed them LSD or marijuana, while other men watched the action through two-way mirrors and tape-recorded the sounds.
Scenes from seamy bordellos? Havens for desperate voyeurs? No, these were taxpayer-financed operations of the CIA, which was experimenting with drugs during the 1950s and '60s in a project with the sophomoric code name Midnight Climax. The women, apparently moonlighting prostitutes, were paid $100 for each assignment by the CIA. The operation, conducted by CIA alchemists from 1954 until 1963, was part of a quarter-century hunt for a psychogenic philosophers' stone. The purpose was to discover the secret of brainwashing, to protect U.S. agents and gain control over enemy spies.
Operation Midnight Climax was disclosed last week at a Senate hearing, adding bizarre details to the story of CIA drug research exposed in 1975 and 1976 by Government investigations."
In conclusion, after years and years of thoughtless stunts, why is anyone surprised when a rogue element rears its ugly head - in government or anywhere else.
John
Titan6
member
The great thing is that this won't ever happen again. Now with the Patriot Act the identity of the witnessess will be held secret forever and those convicted will simply rot in prison forever and never be vindicated. Good thing we can trust the DOJ now. They would never tell lies anymore. How is the AGUS doing anyway???
gyp_c2
Member
hmmm...
...now where did I hear that, better a thousand go free, than one innocent be punished......
...day_dream I guess...
...now where did I hear that, better a thousand go free, than one innocent be punished......
...day_dream I guess...
Waitone
Member
Does it bother anyone the FBI was evidently willing to send the men to their deaths to protect an investigation? They were willing to kill citizens of this country for what? The possibility of getting the goods on the mob? Who else have they sacrificed to the god of the state.
This wasn't a screw up. It was evil, pure and unadulterated.
This wasn't a screw up. It was evil, pure and unadulterated.
Remember that the "if you can't convict them for what you 'know' they did, it's OK to convict them of anything that you can fool a jury into believing" attitude is not just a problem at federal agencies. It is endemic in the LE community [although not every cop adheres to it, etc.].
LE's belief that the defendant is guilty of something, forgives the perjury, etc, that are necessary to gain a conviction of whatever is available. They are, after all, "known" to be bad guys.
The big question is which "they" are the real bad guys?
Interestingly, the soiled cops never seem to roll over on the prosecutors who aide and abet the perjury, etc. The ADA's always know, wink, and let it go on in front of their eyes.
LE's belief that the defendant is guilty of something, forgives the perjury, etc, that are necessary to gain a conviction of whatever is available. They are, after all, "known" to be bad guys.
The big question is which "they" are the real bad guys?
Interestingly, the soiled cops never seem to roll over on the prosecutors who aide and abet the perjury, etc. The ADA's always know, wink, and let it go on in front of their eyes.
nobody_special
member
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