Firearm Related Deaths by State

[collector14]

My wife said she saw a report on one of the morning TV shows yesterday. They said that Louisianna was first, Alabama second and Alaska third in firearm related deaths. Anyone see this report?

 

[danprkr]

No, but I'd be interested in seeing it, and the source of the information. After all there are fewer people in Alaska than logged onto this forum at any given time, and it's hard to figure out how they could have that many deaths, and still have any one left to... umm... well, do whatever it is the Alaskans do.

 

[General Geoff]

Firearm Related Deaths are not necessarily a bad thing. A total number of "firearm related deaths" would comprise police shootings, self/home defense shootings, and suicides, along with accidental shootings and murders.

 

[rbernie]

This is probably the source of the 'news':

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=450732

 

[Husaberg Man]

there are fewer people in Alaska than logged onto this forum at any given time, and it's hard to figure out how they could have that many deaths

Without seeing the source, it must be a "per capita" number.

In Alaska especially, I wonder if they include the number of gun deaths caused by bears?? You know...in those situations in which a guy shoots the bear, only to make the bear mad and cause the bear to shove the gun up the shooter's hinterlands?

BTW, be sure to file down those sights.

 

[Husaberg Man]

Firearm Related Deaths are not necessarily a bad thing. A total number of "firearm related deaths" would comprise police shootings, self/home defense shootings, and suicides, along with accidental shootings and murders.

Yup. Over just the past few months right here in San Antonio, we've had more than a handful of justified self defense shootings/deaths.

One wonders what other crimes would have been reported buy not included in the CDC data if folks had not defended themselves?

 

[Kind of Blued]

You're going to want to look at the FBI's Uniform Crime Reports (UCR) which is available on their website.

As mentioned above, reporting "firearm deaths" doesn't really tell us anything useful unless you're the tool-blaming type.

This chart provides murders by state and by weapon for 2007. Those numbers, along with state populations on another chart, could be plugged into Excel very easily to find murder rates involving firearms for each state.

 

[collector14]

Thanks rbernie

When I heard this I immediately thought something was fishy. Danprkr and General Geoff echoed my thoughts.

You really can make statistics say anything, for example ...

If I were to remove my socks and shoes, put one foot in a tub of ice and the other foot in a tub of scalding hot water, on the average I'd feel pretty comfortable.

 

[Proinsias]

Firearm Related Deaths are not necessarily a bad thing. A total number of "firearm related deaths" would comprise police shootings, self/home defense shootings, and suicides, along with accidental shootings and murders.

I would consider those bad things, in the sense that if there are many of them, that implies high crime which makes those shootings necessary.

 

[rbernie]

http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=4849

Friday, May 08, 2009


The Joyce Foundation gives millions of dollars to the two or three radical anti-gunners that make up the Violence Policy Center, to put together white papers vilifying everything related to guns and gun owners. But after VPC's latest effort, Joyce might want to reconsider whether it's getting its money's worth.

This week, VPC came out with one of its most trite and superficial bits of gibberish to date--an extraordinarily brief piece pointing out that Louisiana, Alabama, Alaska, Mississippi, and Nevada are the five states that have the highest firearm-related death rates, and among the highest rates of gun ownership and "weakest" gun laws.

Anti-gun groups rely heavily on "rankings," because rankings make for good soundbites that the anti-gun media will latch onto at the drop of a hat. But anytime you rank states, no matter what the subject, one will come in first, another second, and so on. Therefore, rankings are usually next to useless for anyone trying to get to the bottom of a complex issue.

Despite its affection for rankings, however, VPC forgot to rank the District of Columbia, the murder capital of the country, whose firearm-related death rate is higher than that of any state. And, it forgot to mention that Maryland, one of the states with the strictest gun control laws, ranked higher than Florida, which VPC regularly berates for its Right-to-Carry law. And, it forgot to mention that California, the state with arguably the most gun control, ranked higher than Vermont, which has among the least restrictive gun laws in the country. And, it forgot to mention that Illinois, despite Chicago's handgun ban, ranked higher than Maine, New Hampshire and North Dakota.

VPC also failed to mention that Alaska and Nevada were among the top five largely because of their high suicide rates. Yet study after study has shown that suicide rates are not affected by gun prevalence. For example, Japan has virtually no guns and a much higher suicide rate than the U.S.

VPC also failed to mention that Alaska's non-gun murder rate is higher than its gun murder rate, despite widespread gun ownership in the state, and that Louisiana and Nevada also are among the highest five states in terms of their non-gun murder rates.

There is no correlation between state gun laws and crime rates; some higher-crime and lower-crime states have relatively tough gun laws, and some have relatively less stringent laws. And, studies by and for Congress, the Congressional Research Service, the Library of Congress, the CDC, the National Academy of Sciences, the National Institute of Justice and others have found no evidence the gun control reduces crime in this country or abroad.

Additionally, the FBI reports that crime levels are determined by factors relating to population, transportation, the economy, culture and family, climate, law enforcement agencies, the criminal justice system, and citizens' attitudes toward crime and the police.

The bottom line is, since 1991 federal, state, and local gun control laws have been rescinded or made less restrictive; the number of gun owners, guns, and Right-to-Carry states has risen to all-time highs. And the national murder and total violent crime rates have declined over 40% since 1991; to 43- and 35-year lows, respectively. More guns has coincided with, and perhaps contributed to, less crime.

Ultimately, VPC's purpose is to argue for stronger gun laws, but it has a hard row to hoe in that regard, no matter how much money Joyce wastes on VPC's handful of squeaky anti-gunners.

To the folks at Joyce, spend your money however you want, but we think the money would be better spent on a playground for some neighborhood kids, than on nonsensical propaganda slapped together by Josh Sugarmann, Kristen Rand, and whoever may sweep up their office after 5:00.

 

[cchris]

Statistics LIE.

I can go ask 500 people about a shirt I'm wearing, whether they like it or not. I can take 100 of those and say that "100 out of 100 people like my shirt", or "100% of people like my shirt". It's all a load of bull.

Now here's a list of suicide rates by state.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2007-11-28-depression-suicide-numbers_N.htm

Well looky, some of those states in the top of the first list are also at the top of this list as well.

So what's a potential argument of that VPC list in response to the suicide rate list?

"If you ban firearms, then everyone will re-think suicide and will definitely not find another way to end their lives."

 

[sthomper]

Statistics LIE.

statisitcs lie do they?? i guess they can be falsified by a person. of somene can provide a false conclusion (lying or fraud) and us actual staticitcs.

Reading a thing doesn't automatically make it so; repeating it doesn't necessarily make it any truer.

would you leap off of a tall building??

In Alaska especially, I wonder if they include the number of gun deaths caused by bears??

i doubt you wonder that at all.

If I were to remove my socks and shoes, put one foot in a tub of ice and the other foot in a tub of scalding hot water, on the average I'd feel pretty comfortable.

if i cut off one foot would you feel ok??? no. if i shot one hand off of you???

"There is no correlation between state gun laws and crime rates; some higher-crime and lower-crime states have relatively tough gun laws,......"

reallY?? based on what statistics??

"As mentioned above, reporting "firearm deaths" doesn't really tell us anything useful unless you're the tool-blaming type."

why not?? they chose firearm over bow and arrow. because they thought it better to kill with. accidental or not.

would comprise police shootings,............

have these types ever made mistakes??? would that be a bad thing???

I can take 100 of those and say that "100 out of 100 people like my shirt",........

but that that would be a deliberatee lie on your part and not a statistic.

 

[Owen Sparks]

As I understand it Alaska his the highest rate of suicide and alcoholism in the nation, and also the largest percent of native Americans.

 

[Cryogaijin]

As I understand it Alaska his the highest rate of suicide and alcoholism in the nation,

This.
If one were to remove suicides and "self-death by misadventure" due to intoxication, I wonder where alaska would be.

 

[MachIVshooter]

sthomper-

Please use the quote function. It will make clearer what are your words and what are not, and allow you to condense your responses into one post, rather than a dozen.

 

[El Mariachi]

Methinks Stomps is on a roll right now. Perhaps we should let him ramble on?......

 

[seuadr]

sthomper, do you realize you are arguing with people in a conversation that happened (make that) TWO YEARS AGO?!

??

 

[Sam1911]

Please use the quote function. It will make clearer what are your words and what are not, and allow you to condense your responses into one post, rather than a dozen.

I cleaned it up a little for him. Gratis.

Sthomper, you can go to your post and hit the "EDIT" button to see how those quotes are done, so you can use them in the future. Should make life a little easier for all of us.

sthomper, do you realize you are arguing with people in a conversation that happened THREE YEARS AGO?!

Um...rather.

 

[hermannr]

Many years ago, to my boss (about another situation, not guns)

Me: "But Bill, the figures don't lie" (just like guns do not kill)

Bill: "true, but liers sure can figure" (as in you can make a statistic say anything you want it to, by ignoring some things, and including others)

 

[wally]

To be totally politically uncorrect, perhaps a break out of "firearms deaths" by race would be more informative.

 

[cbrgator]

These are 2008 numbers. The 2009 numbers are not radically different. The 2010 numbers are still not available from the FBI.

No correlation between a state's gun homicide and its gun control laws. Louisiana is sort of an outlier because it has yet to fully recover from Katrina.

 

[au01st]

Dang...2nd place. Maybe we can get into 1st place next year!

I guess there's a reason Birmingham is one of the featured cities on The First 48.

 

[geekWithA.45]

statisitcs lie do they?? i guess they can be falsified by a person. of somene can provide a false conclusion (lying or fraud) and us actual staticitcs.

FWIW, I was once a professional statistician. A specific part of the training is on how to recognize (and conversely, use) 100% factual, defendable before your peers numbers to create an impression that other numbers, if they were known, might negate.

Thing is, most deceptive numbers batted about in public discourse and newspapers don't even get to that level of sophistication and nuance. Flat out lies have been known to be uttered.

Deception with numbers is a high art and science.

 

[JustinJ]

"statisitcs lie do they?? i guess they can be falsified by a person. of somene can provide a false conclusion (lying or fraud) and us actual staticitcs. "

Statistics don't lie but people do. It can be extremely easy to misrepresent data. The easiest way is to omit relevant data. Ecspecially in observational studies as opposed to controlled experiments.

 

[Neverwinter]

To be totally politically uncorrect, perhaps a break out of "firearms deaths" by race would be more informative.

A boring graph would be one of firearms deaths vs median/mean population density.

I'd like to see one of firearms deaths vs income disparity.