firearm stolen by fraud?

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gunmaker2872

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here's the full story,,, about a month ago i emailed a guy and asked if he would be interested in trading his M1 for my MINI 14, then i found out that it was an inland police model and i wasnt much interested, a few weeks go by and i see that his ad is still there so i email him and ask him if he would be interested in a SUB2000 with many extras plus some cash on my end, he mailed back and said sounds good what caliber is the mini?,, i sensed he was alittle confused, so i wrote him back this

the sub2000 is 9mm it takes glock mags and comes with AR style handgaurd and original handgaurd, and a front folding foregrip and mount plus one 10rnd mag and a 33rnd mag and it's still in the box

he then wrote back and said he will take the gun and all the xtras plus 200$, then i said how about 100$ he said deal,, we met up and he looked it over then we shook hands and parted ways, i even said here's your new SUB2000

i left town for a few days and when i got back i got these messages, note that he waited 24 hours before even emailing me?

this is john you con me with the kel-tec you were to bring a ruger mini 14 ss with bypod . would like to make it straight the gun you gave me is only worth about 400.00.if you would like to straighten this out .lets get toghter agin to trade back or bring the right gun or about four hunderd more dollars differance.john

because you choose not to respond to my e-mail the rife has been turned over to the atf as stolen by fraud and they will contact you by tracing your e-mail. john


and to top it all off when i got home and gave the M1 a closer inspection i noticed that the barrel is shot, not even any rifling left and all pitted

ive wrote him back twice asking to trade back but gotten no answer
 
Did he spell that way in his ad? I wouldn't have paid any attention to it if he did.

You got screwed, but, you accepted the rifle when you did the deal and walked away with the gun. Should have inspected it on the spot. I wouldn't worry at all about his threats, he's trying to take you for all he can get out of you. He already got the Kel-Tec for a P.O.S. M1. I would save all the emails, but not contact him again and chalk it up as a lesson learned.

The ATF isn't going to care, because he received the gun from you face to face and walked away from the deal with gun in hand just like you did. If it was by mail, it would be totally different.
 
I'd contact the ATF office he claims he turned the gun in to.

Print out copies of ALL correspondence and give it to them.


This guy is either confused, a crook (and you got took and is throwing this "I turned the gun in to the ATF" nonsense in there to keep you from following up on this) or has changed his mind about the deal.


If he HAS reported it stolen, you'll want to get this sorted out quickly.


Too bad about the M1 ... but you can always rebarrel it and make a nice shooter out of it.

Fulton Armory has them for $275 (or for an extra $50 you can get a chrome lined one) http://www.fulton-armory.com/MParts.htm
 
I'm am not an attorney so this isn't legal advice, but if I were you:

1.I would print out and save all the emails don't delete them.

2. I would write down a detailed account of your side.

3. I would consult an atty.

Do you think it was a fair trade? Could he be blowing smoke at you? Could he be compensating for the fact that the M1 is in bad shape.

Seems unlikely that you would mistake the Sub2000 for a Mini 14.
 
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Doesn't sound fraudulent to me in any way if you both traded and shook hands and parted ways.

I agree with others that he is a con artist (BS artist?) and wants to get as much as he can from you.

He might be the one in "deep-doo-doo" if he is using the ATF to try and 'con' more money from you, in which case the ATF might be breaking down HIS DOOR!
 
thats what i mean, he had it in hands and looked at it. how in the heck could you confuse a mini 14 with a sub2000?in person even if he was confused be emails,, im not sure why he is doing this, i didnt even say anything to him about the condition of the M1 carbine until after he wrote me those emails,,could he give the gun to the atf in two days? and is there such a thing as stolen by fraud?
 
Sheesh, I don't know THAT answer, I suppose today ANYTHING is possible, HOWEVER if you are telling us the truth, and I don't have reason to think you aren't, then the guy is most likely pounding smoke to get more $$$.

Maybe he thought you look like you are made of money and maybe he needs $400 for something (don't we all these days)!

If he's an addict of some sort, he might be all dazed and confused all by himself!

You don't have anything to lose, perhaps you should call the ATF and tell them the story. Maybe they have heard of this guy before as he might have done the EXACT same thing to a lot of other people!
 
There is such thing as theft by misrepresentation, and there is such thing as fraud.

Local PD wouldn't want to touch this; they'd hang their hat, fittingly or not, on "it's a civil thing." ATF isn't going to be interested, as it was FTF.

Now, if he reports it "stolen" and misrepresents the facts to the PD, that's a mess. Do you live in the same jurisdiction?
 
Perhaps you should take the positive approach and see if that gun he gave you has EVER been recorded as STOLEN.

Maybe in the past several days it has been (recorded as stolen), however the guy would have to know the serial number (which he might not know).
 
I don’t mean to insult you, but given the terrible grammar, punctuation, and spelling in your post, I can certainly understand how trying to work a deal with you could be confusing. If you’re going to wheel and deal for any item, it would best if both parties were speaking the same language.
 
I don’t mean to insult you, but given the terrible grammar, punctuation, and spelling in your post, I can certainly understand how trying to work a deal with you could be confusing. If you’re going to wheel and deal for any item, it would best if both parties were speaking the same language.


I believe you are refering to his emails? read the entire post before making a comment please,, i may not have the best grammer but lets be real, anyone who cant understand what i am typing probably shouldnt even own a firearm
 
My advice is:

1. run the numbers to see if it is stolen.

2. keep copies of all emails, yours and his, just in case the cops do come calling.

3. Ignore him, since he doesn't know where you live.

4. If you are really nervous, consult an attorney with all the facts of the situation and ask for his advice.
 
well i just called the guy and he wont give me back my gun and money,, so im just gonna chaulk it up as i got screwed, im going down today and buying a keychain bore light,,
 
…anyone who cant understand what i am typing probably shouldnt even own a firearm
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I tried to read your OP several times and it was painful. I could not understand most of it, and I own several firearms. Please don’t take it the wrong way! If you were making this deal through emails, it is understandable that there would be issues. It’s not just the nearly incomprehensible grammar and dozens of extra commas, but there are question marks where there are no questions, misspellings, and the sentences run on.
this is john you con me with the kel-tec you were to bring a ruger mini 14 ss with bypod . would like to make it straight the gun you gave me is only worth about 400.00.if you would like to straighten this out .lets get toghter agin to trade back or bring the right gun or about four hunderd more dollars differance.john
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What does that mean? Is this his email to you? Is this a direct copy/paste of his email? If so, I can see how the details could get muddled.

This reminds me of the con on ebay back when Playstations were hot and hard to find. A seller listed a “Playstation, picture below” (below the text was the picture of a playstation ) for what seemed like a great deal. Do you see the error? The ad didn’t say, “playstation, pictured below”, it said “playstation, picture below”. The buyer sent his hundreds of dollars and got exactly what the ad promised, the picture of the playstation! So my point is, if you’re going to wheel and deal via written text (as opposed to calling on the phone or dealing directly) it’s in your best interest to ensure clarity.
 
Mainsail

i left town for a few days and when i got back i got these messages, note that he waited 24 hours before even emailing me?

this is john you con me with the kel-tec you were to bring a ruger mini 14 ss with bypod . would like to make it straight the gun you gave me is only worth about 400.00.if you would like to straighten this out .lets get toghter agin to trade back or bring the right gun or about four hunderd more dollars differance.john

because you choose not to respond to my e-mail the rife has been turned over to the atf as stolen by fraud and they will contact you by tracing your e-mail. john


seems perty cut and dry to me,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Ive also posted this on a few other forums and out of all the people who "READ" my post your the only one who got confused:uhoh:

i guess when he had the SUB2000 in his hands and was looking it over i should have said hey you do realize this is not a mini 14?,,/,,/??,,

sorry if you feel that way:banghead:, but hey theres a grammer freak in every forum,,,,...///
 
If he HAS reported it stolen
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We wouldn't accept a complaint such as this. as pointed out earlier, it IS a civil matter. Unless there was a gross misrepresentation of either item, the deal is between two people and not a criminal matter.

Some people should just buy retail so they can get the item with a warrenty.

it was an inland police model
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What is an Inland Police Model? As far as I'm aware, there is no such firearm. As far as a shot out Inland M-1 carbine, that is worth in the area of $400 give or take a few dollars either way. It doesn't sound like either party was beat all that much.
 
The reciever is stamped bavaria forestry police, Most people try to stay away from these because they were abused. Ive found an underfolder for it, now i need a new barrel
 
To the Original Poster:

I have have several professions, and at least 8 years of paid higher education along with years of cumulative professional schooling, and a decade of work in professional jobs. I am also a highly trained Soldier in the US Army and have deployed to combat. Finally, I'm a law abiding citizen of the United States with guaranteed rights under the Bill of Rights - specifically the 2A.

I had difficulty understanding your posting. Whether it's your grammer, the seller, or both - it was quite confusing.

For you to state that I shouldn't own a gun because I can't understand your ramblings is quite insulting.

As to your original question as to what you should do, I think you should have inspected the product on the spot or re-evaluate who is responsible enough to own a firearm. Keep records of your conversations with the other party, report it to the police if you think he will report it as stolen, or hire an attorney.

Finally, learn to type, tell a story coherently, and not insult gun owners.
 
Oh this is about an M1 CARBINE (dunno why I was thinking Garand) ... well then swapping him the Keltec + $100 means you got ripped off by about $100 (actually more since you say the M1 is shot out). A shot out Garand could still be worth $500.

Fulton still the place to go for parts http://www.fulton-armory.com/MCarbParts.htm
 
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