First-hand Account of Incident at National Shooting Club (from Calguns.net)

[CWL]

I was nearby when that happened, always wondered about the full story. You couldn't get anyone at NSC to talk about it while it was under trial.

NSC was the safest indoor range in Silicon Valley/East Bay/Peninsula area. -Sometimes bad things just happen. TargetMasters and Jackson Arms are nowhere near as close in safety and management. Reeds is pretty well run today and offers some excellent classes, though they no longer sell guns there.

Couple of important facts to remember from this:

Practice constantly to get a smooth draw from holster. Practice keeps you levelheaded under stress. Muscle memory works.

You can't tell if the BG is hit. Bullet holes are SMALL, clothes obscure and it is often dark. Keep shooting until the BG stops aggression.

You cannot count rounds under stress/combat. Cocktail loads don't work because you don't know what is actually in the pipe. Practice reloading instead.

Keep moving while under fire. Move away from fire to increase distance.

230gr. Hydrashocks don't allways expand even in 5" barrels.

edited to note that the poster/survivor of this above incident has recently joined THR.

 

[Mordwyn]

I recently clocked a 230gr LTC handload doing 885fps from my Glock 30. This was done with a pretty fast powder (I expected it to run around 825fps). They can get up there, but you do lose about 50fps vs a 5" barreled .45

If I remember correctly the various tests that were done by publications like Guns and Ammo, American Hangunner and the like. 8-900 FPS or simmilar results were produced, this was not good enough for full expansion of the heavier bullet in many of the test shots, especially if the target was wearing something like a Denim jacket or heavier.

They can get up there, but you do lose about 50fps vs a 5" barreled .45

Now If I'm only loosing 50 FPS with the shorter Glock 30 barrel than means that the 185 Gr. CorBons that I carry are still getting up to between 1000 FPS and 1100 FPS or better. It may be all in my head but that extra velocity for a bullet of that size is bit of a comfort Its the best of both worlds (9mm vs .45)

 

[fish2xs]

The guy's a hero. I have read enough stories about those involved in justifiable shootings going through depression/guilt, etc. I wonder how
many lives the store owner saved....

 

[Jmurman]

I have just changed from Federal Hydra Shock 230 gr, to Cor Bon 185 grhp, and Speer Gold Dot 185 gr.

 

[Jesse H]

Reading that makes you want to leave work early and just work on drawing from concealment.

Thank God none of the good guys were injured.

 

[Oleg Volk]

there should be a guaranteed non-fatal way to completely stop an armed opponent who is planning to hurt himself or others

Planning to hurt himself is one thing, but anyone trying to hurt another except in self-defense needs to meet Darwin/Shiva/Haron/etc. promptly. Once outed as a willing psychopath, that person should not steal oxygen a moment longer.

 

[Penforhire]

Wow, that is a scary story! I used to shoot there too, when I lived in Redwood City. I always tend to think of ranges as the safest place on earth. I mean, we're all armed, half of us tend to be LEO's, and we're watching for unsafe behavior (at least I know I am). But opening and closing the store must be the most dangerous times.

There wasn't anything wrong with QB's ammo that a third, CNS, shot wouldn't have cured. Talk about a lucky perp.

 

[Partisan Ranger]

God almighty, what a story.

 

[Selfdfenz]

God almighty, what a story.
Amen!

"Planning to hurt himself is one thing, but anyone trying to hurt another except in self-defense needs to meet Darwin/Shiva/Haron/etc. promptly. Once outed as a willing psychopath, that person should not steal oxygen a moment longer."

That's it in a nut shell.

Hope QBG lives a long, healthy and happy life.

S-

 

[Partisan Ranger]

...I'd add that stories like this and others I've read on this board have made me say the hell with what my wife says and go out and get my first gun (well I have a .22 Remmy rifle but that doesn't count).

I'm waiting for the FFL to get to the dealer in PA and hopefully by Monday I'll have my Kahr K-9.

I'm also thinking about picking up a shotgun for HD....

 

[444]

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't this guy an active member of this board ?

 

[Archer]

I'm somewhat fascinated by the negative reaction to the performance of the ammunition used in that gripping and well-told story.

Two shots- one somewhat marginal- and the goblin was stopped. The goal is to stop the goblin. He stopped, nu ?

What's the problem ?

 

[Sven]

Yes, the hero (he will downplay this label) is THR's own QuarterBoreGunner.

Here's part of the Bay Area THR crew from our recent shoot (click the link for more photos and VIDEO of jugs of water being shot with rifles):


Jim March, Sven, Atek3, QuarterBoreGunner, LabRat, MadKiwi

 

[QuarterBoreGunner]

Jeez Sven, I told you that was my goofy shooting hat! Not very heroic.

Now if I was going to pose as heroic... I'm thinking something along the lines of a Viking helmet... maybe one with the horns on the side.

Seriously, I want to thank everyone for the kind words. This is probably the most I've discussed, what was arguably The Worst Monday Night Ever. For awhile I never wanted to talk about it, for fear of being labled a 'braggart', but I've decided that if there is anything I can pass along that would ever help someone in a similar situation, then I would.

Thanks again guys (and gals)

 

[CZ-75]

I'm also thinking about picking up a shotgun for HD....

870.




Good job, 1/4 bore.

 

[thaddeus]

I am glad I finally got to read that account, years later. I was in San Diego when it happened, and I heard rumors about it. I scoured the newspapers and could not find any mention of the "heroic gun store owner stopping a crazed mass murderer".
That sounds to me like a story fit for the front page, as well as a feature in every news show. If the murderer had succeeded, hiss tory would have been everywhere. It is funny how newpapers avoid telling stories about good citizens with guns stopping a mass murder.


Re: 230gr
Through Ammolab and other studies I have found that you can't blame the weight of the bullet, but the bullet design. The 230gr HydraShok has failed way too many modern tests for me to carry it.
I believe that you are very safe carrying a 230gr Winchester Ranger T (RA45T/A) from any length barrel, though. Check out the tests on Ammolab and other places, and the 230gr Ranger gives stellar results from any length barrel, through any medium.

 

[Carlos]

Two shots- one somewhat marginal- and the goblin was stopped. The goal is to stop the goblin. He stopped, nu ?

What's the problem ?

None in my book. It was four, if I read correctly. Anyway, great post, great hero and glad he's/you're a member of this board.

Reading that post was like reading a detective novel. My hair was standing on end the whole time.

Glad you acted and saved lives QuarterBoreGunner. I don't know you, but you have my utmost respect.

Carl

 

[rebbryan]

*GASP* the .45 didn't completely destroy him? i don't believe it

QB you have night sights on the glock?

 

[QuarterBoreGunner]

rebbryan- Yes on the night sights question, Trijicon green/green three dot.

Not really a factor though as this happend in early July and it was still light out.

Carlos- it was four shots total; two hits two misses. And yes he did stop his aggressive action by dropping the rifle and running down the driveway. If he'd been determined to go out fighting, it may have been a lot more ugly than it was. As it was I was lucky that the second shot pretty much put his right arm out of action.

 

[PATH]

Makes me stop and think about when I am at the shop closing. Being robbed is one thing but facing a guy who is nuts. Whoa!

Time for me to stop being so complacent at the store.

 

[Jeeper]

That is an amazing story. Good to see the good guys come out on top. I cant even imagine what you had to of been thinking during this situation.

Do you think that you were less afraid of the gun since you are around them so much as compared to a non-shooter?

 

[QuarterBoreGunner]

PATH- yeah I know what you mean; like I said, I have a rule= never argue with the man pointing the big loaded gun at you. If he'd been after money or guns, 'hey man you're in charge, just tell me what you want and I'll give it to you' at least until I can get a clear shot.
One thing that we (the former range owners and myself) never considered was someone coming off the range with one of our rental firearms aimed at us.

Jeeper- I think the only time that having firearms knowledge/expereince helped me was when Stevens had me and Bob up against the range wall with our backs turned.

I *knew* that he had 115grn. Full Metal Jacket ammo. I *knew* that it was in a rifle with a 16" barrel. I *knew* that if I was shot right then, that the muzzle velocity would be pretty high, the round wouldn't expand, and unless he hit me in the CNS, I still would try my damdest to draw and fire.

I don't know if that's what they call 'survival mindset' or not. At the time all I could think of was my wife and how horrible it would be for someone to tell her that I had been killed at work.

Damn. I need a drink.