FJM or HP defense ammo for .380?

[Shane333]

I have a CZ83 .380 that I currently use as my self defense pistol. Why? Well, it fits my hand well, the safety, trigger, etc have good ergonomics for me, it points real naturally, and I can hit what I aim at with it.

So, given that I'm using this .380 pistol (so we can save the "get a larger cartridge" discussion for another thread), is it better to use HP or FMJ ammunition for self defense?

I'm currently using Remington GS ammo. It has some of the heavier .380 hollow point bullets and the GS bullet expands better than many other hollow points in this particular cartridge.

However, the recent "Energy Transfer" thread has got me thinking that penetration may be a lot more important than bullet expansion when using this caliber. For the average sized person, a COM hit will likely penetrate deep enough to reach vital organs (yes, I know this is just my opinion). However, there are many large people out there, as well as thick clothing in wet/cold conditions.

So, is there a good .380 cartridge for self defense that isn't a hollow point? Are there soft point .380 cartridges? Is there a significant advantage in using an fmj for the .380?

I like the Golden Sabers. They shoot well for me and I know where I can get them for about $6/box.

Edited to add: This thread may fit better in the handguns:autoloaders forum. I understand if it needs to be moved.

 

[coylh]

According to the gelatin tests I've been collecting, the .380 hp's penetrate between 6-11 inches (bare gelatin). In clothed, it depends on if the hp expands. The one FMJ test says it penetrated 17 inches.

Where's the 180 grain .380 hunting ammo when you need it?

 

[kbheiner7]

Can you get Federal's EFMJ in .380? That may be a nice compromise.

 

[birdman]

Don't have a .380 but I did do a little testing of the 9X18 in my PA63 last weekend. We had been testing 45 ACP on water filled milk jugs and the better defensive rounds were penetrating 3 or 4 jugs (Golden Sabers/Gold Dots/ Hydra Shoks). At the end of the session I decided to try some Fiocchi 95 gr. FMJ in the 9X18. That stuff fully penetrated 8 jugs and was still going. It has me thinking that a change in ammo for my "mouse gun" is in order.

 

[Shane333]

I've heard about Fiocchi but never tried it. Sounds like a real hot loaded FMJ cartridge.

 

[RyanM]

90 (or is it 95?) grain Hornady XTP's tend to penetrate just under the recommended 12" mark, while Golden Sabers are usually more like 8".

8" sounds good at first, except if your shot is an angle (such as from the side, or from flat on your back), you need more penetration. If the shot hits an extremity blocking the chest, you need more penetration. If the bullet encounters a rib, same deal.

I'd recommend either Hornady hollowpoints, or a jacketed flatnose such as Remington LeadLess UMC, Winchester Valu-Pak, or Winchester WinClean.

 

[Zeke Menuar]

I have a CZ-83. The first 5 or 6 rounds are Federal Hydra-Shok HP the rest are Federal FMJ.

ZM

 

[MICHAEL T]

I use CorBon HP in my PPK/S and Mustang But in Winter heavy coats Id just soon have ball.

 

[mrhuckins]

Try this

If your concerned/worried about this, try mixing up the ammo in your mag. IE.. one round of HP followed by two rounds of FMJ etc...

 

[TN-popo]

In calibers that can reliably give 12" of penetration AND expansion...JHP.
In calibers that can reliably give 12" of penetration OR expansion...FMJ.
We want expansion...we NEED penetration. Keep in mind that many SD shootings involve limbs, so be careful about counting on that unobstructed COM shot.
I carry FMJ in my .380acp.
But, your perceived needs may be different than mine.
Best.

 

[Shorts]

I carry JHPs, but my 2nd mag is regular FMJs. Wintertime is probably a good time to carry FMJs as they need to go through thicker clothing and jackets. I considered alternating FMJs and JHPs in the mag, but that can pose reliability/feeding issues, so make sure that works in your pistol before you do. I haven't tried alternating at the range, so I'm not going to carry that way.

 

[Ivy Mike]

I keep my Makarov stoked with Winchester Supreme SXT 95 gr.

My Makarov is my smallest weapon and gets used when a larger piece can't be easily concealed. Usually, this is a social event and if forced to draw, I don't want to aerate some poor victim behind the scum I'm shooting at. That being said, I considered a higher quality HP design and rejected based on the principle that the bullet needs to get deep enough to cause damage. If the cavity fills up before the bullet expands, thats alright in my book.

 

[Glocker]

i've always been told in small calibers from .380 and on down is to use fmj's for penetration, and if jhp's is your flavor then shot your attacker in the neck.

 

[lbmii]

I think the best round for the 380 might be the Winchester 95 grain FMJ. It has a blunt semi-wadcutter design.

The hottest 380 ammo I have ever tested is Santa Barbara Spanish made ammo. From my short barrel Kel Tec 3AT it had velocity average of 917 fps with a 95 grain bullet. The bullet is a jacketed semi-wadcutter with a small exposed lead tip. I doubt it would expand.

 

[Joshua M. Smith]

Shane,

Wild Bill Hickok carried what amounted to a couple .380s and didn't worry that the round balls backed by black powder wouldn't do their jobs- remember that in later years he did have access to the .45 Colt SAA.

Some say the round balls flattened; some say they didn't. I don't know. I suppose it depends on the antimony content. Whichever, I don't know that expansion was even a factor that was considered back then.

I do know that Wild Bill (among others) practiced every night, shooting the loads he had carried that day, cleaning his pistols, then reloading before going to sleep. Ten shots per day... not counting any hideout weapons. Not a whole lot of practice... 70 to 100 shots per week... but daily practice.

All that said about placement... EFMJ is not available in this caliber but Cor®Bon Pow'Rball is. I've not heard of any shootings nor done any tests as I do not own a .380.

Specs are as follows:

380 Auto 70 gr Pow'Rball--1250fps/243ft/lbs--20 rds. per box

http://mysite.elixirlabs.com/index.php?uid=12665&page=1607

If I can find a .380 test I'll post back.

Josh <><

 

[enfield]

I haven't yet found a JHP load that will penetrate as reliably as FMJ. That said, I carry Remington Express FMJ in my .380's. I won't carry target ammo (UMC, Winclean, etc) unless I'm out of the good stuff, and that doesn't happen often.

I once had a .380 CCI Blazer round come apart in a loaded mag (case still in the magazine, bullet and powder in my pocket). I wouldn't shoot that stuff in someone else's pistol.

When I find a JHP or soft point that will reliably penetrate 12-14 inches, then I may reconsider. Wide is good, but deep is better.

 

[enfield]

FBI Ammunition Tests Data:

http://www.firearmstactical.com/ammo_data/380acp.htm

 

[The_Shootist]

The CCI/Speer Gold Dot...

....looks pretty good in those FBI ballistics tests! Glad thats what I'm carrying now - mainly because the Golden Sabre is kinda tough to get around here.

 

[CZ-100]

I carry Winchester 95 grain FMJ, in my P3AT...

 

[No_Brakes23]

I keep Federal Hydrashok or Hishok (for HP) and Winchester WinClean or Whitebox (for FMJ) in my wife's SIG P232. I just alternate HP/FMJ/HP/FMJ, etc etc. No FTF so far firing this way at the range.

What's that old rule of gunfighting? Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice.

No CCW in Cali, so it is only for HD anyway, and just to get to the long gun.

 

[Marshall]

I use to shoot Hornady's and was pleased, don't carry my .380 much anymore. Today I would probably consider SXT's.

 

[Gunnutz13]

I gotta...

...Colt M1908 hammerless and a Walther PPK/s...both chambered in .380acp.
If I'm in light summer attire, and pack either one of these, I carry the 90 grain Hornady XTP's. Great little HP's...until they plug up with what ever cloth the perp is wearing...then they're FMJ's that still penetrate 8 to 12 inches deep. It's all about shot placement...

 

[M2 Carbine]

I've got the CZ 83 in 9x18 and a Makarov in .380 (along with several 9x18 Makarovs).

I carry a Kel Tec .380 but I don't plan on carrying the .380 Makarov.

Anyhow, I use Cor Bon in the .380.

I recently tried the .380 Cor Bon Powerball but it was very disapointing in the Kel Tec, Makarov and a Colt 380 Government model.

 

[cls12vg30]

Don't have a .380 but I did do a little testing of the 9X18 in my PA63 last weekend. We had been testing 45 ACP on water filled milk jugs and the better defensive rounds were penetrating 3 or 4 jugs (Golden Sabers/Gold Dots/ Hydra Shoks). At the end of the session I decided to try some Fiocchi 95 gr. FMJ in the 9X18. That stuff fully penetrated 8 jugs and was still going. It has me thinking that a change in ammo for my "mouse gun" is in order.

That Fiocchi is great stuff. My FEG SMC-918 gets a couple of my few remaining 9x18 Cor-bon HP's at the top of the mag, followed up by Fiocchi FMJ's. My nightstand Bulgy Makarov gets 112 gr. Silver Bear JHP's, good and heavy for the caliber, and lessens the risk of overpenetration in my apartment.

In my .380 I have been using Cor-bon's followed by Golden Sabres, simply because 102 gr. is the highest weight I've seen in .380, but if some of the stuff on this thread is true, perhaps I'll switch it to Hydra-shoks or Gold Dots, or just load FMJ under the Cor-bons. (The chamber and top mag rounds in most all my defense guns are Cor-bons. Sure wish they'd hurry up on that rumored 9x18 PowRBall)