has anyone here tried making flechette shotgun rounds?
Yup.
From the Cheaper Than Dirt page:
Military Flechette Original military projectile that was so deadly the U.S. thought it might be against the Geneva Convention! In the 1960s the U.S. Army began early developmental work on flechette weapons. The thought was to fire these wicked steel darts and cause massive casualties among the enemy. Flechettes are 1" long, hardened-steel nails with fins, and number approximately 950 darts per pound. There were experimental flechette rounds for the M203 grenade launcher and the 12-gauge shotgun. These weapons were never used in the field, as the U.S. thought they were so destructive they would violate the rules of war. These rounds had tremendous military advantages, as they were lighter than standard rounds, had much lower recoil, had considerable range, and could penetrate body armor. A very high velocity, small diameter projectile easily penetrates body armor. We are not recommending that you load these or try to weaponize them. They represent the ultimate military weapon and a unique historical item. Great conversation piece, and sold by the pound.
Hmmm, where do we start?
1. Geneva Convention says nothing about the type of weapons used in combat. People generally mean the *Hague* Convention, or possibly the Treaty of St. Petersburg when they wory about a weapon system complying with the "Laws of War".
2. Flechettes were used in WWI. Most famously dropped out of biplanes by the French against ground troops.
3. Flechettes come in all kinds of shapes, sizes, and weights. (Is a really big one a "Flech"?
)
4. Flechette loads *were* tested in the field. They weren't used widely because they just didn't work so well. 12ga Buckshot has a lot more stopping power than the flechette loads did.
5. Flechette loads *were* and *are* widely used in cannister and shrapnel loads for cannon. The "Beehive" rounds were well known for their effectiveness from 106mm Recoilless Rifles as a lightweight way of dealing with human wave attacks. The M1001 HVCC round for the Mk19 et al. allows the gun to be used for short range and perimeter defense.
6. The sectional density, "pointiness", and high-strength material of flechettes has more to do with the penetration of body armor than their velocity. In most applications, especially from 12ga, the flechette loads have comparable velocity to other payloads.
7. In order for flechettes to penetrate armor, they need to be fully stabilized. At close ranges, most payload-launched flechettes are not fully stabilized and many don't even encounter the target point-first. Which does make for nasty, if somewhat superficial, wounds against unarmored targets.
8. Flechette payloads *are* used in aerial rockets against other aerial targets.
9. Certainly not the "ultimate military weapon", if such a thing exists...
However, *when properly designed*they can have spectacular performance. There are many "armor-piercing discarding-sabot fin-stabilized" projectiles that do a wonder on armor, all the way from the SPIW project to tank cannon. Broadly speaking, many missiles and rockets (and arrows) have a flechette-like design. Even the HARP "Martlets", Nazi V-3 "Pump Gun", Dynamite Gun, and Davis Gun projos had "flechette-like" designs. But this was for aerodynamic reasons, not terminal effects.
i had o do some research and found that several armies have tried to employ flechette rounds into combat.
If they weren't widely adopted, maybe they're not "the ultimate military weapon".
But so do the drawbacks!
but mabey there are some legality issues. (not lethality lol)
Not many legality issues, unless you're in California or similar (why would you stay there?)
and since you can buy them by the pound now...
They've been available by the pound for decades.
would any of you put this shrough your shot gun?
I have. The commercial rounds were absolutely pathetic. I think I could literally throw them faster than they came out the muzzle. So I loaded my own. Very educational, and frustrating.
what choke would you have to use since they are made of hardened steel?
In My Experience the problem is not the choke (but might as well stick with Cylinder). I gouged the *forcing cone*. The fins cut through the hull or wad and deeply scored the cone. In one load I *vaporized* one side of the plastic hull forward of the wad/powder line.
Terminal results were starting to get impressive. Went through a heavy solid wood commercial door. I shot a 12-lb chunk of sausage, and it nailed it to the wooden backstop. Spread was so great as t make it useless for anything but point-blank range - something like 10' diameter at 10 yards.
I just got some aftermarket 40mm flechette rounds for my M203. But the ballistics are just as pathetic as the military ones. All the low-pressure grenade-launcher flechette loads do is a lousy 160+ fps with about 50 flechettes. I seriously doubt they'd penetrate even the lightest body armor at that velocity. But you probably would get the attention of everybody in the room if you shot it through a doorway.
