Long time reader first time poster here. I just bought a new FNAR 308. I was still in the research stage of trying to figure out what I wanted. I knew I wanted an accurate semi auto for hunting everything from ground squirrels to ferral hogs, to elk. I also had plans to put a suppressor on it and shoot sub sonic through it for certain things. Before I did as much research as I wanted to do on this sort of purchase I walked into a local store having a fire sale deal on them. It was $750 brand new with 3 twenty round clips, one 5, 20" fluted barrel and a 1:12 twist, and a hard case. That was $400 off their regular price, I was very excited! Still excited but also slightly disappointed to find out I can't shoot subsonic rounds with a 1:12 twist rate. My question is what would be the most economical way to have a good subsonic gun from this platform? It sounds like for my arm, leg, and first born I could change the upper to a 338 whisper through SSK. What if I just bought a different barrel for my AR? What makes the whisper uppers better than just shooting a subsonic 308 through a regular AR10 (assuming you had a barrel with a 1:8 twist equipped to shoot subsonic)?
FNAR 10 subsonic
- Thread starter eou_edu
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First, the FNAR is not an AR-10 type rifle. It's kind of it's own beast, I think it may be derived from the Browning hunting-type BAR rifles.
Second, I wouldn't get discouraged just yet, I would try your rifle out with a variety of bullet weights and see how it handles the heavies. If you reload, working up a bunch of subsonic loads shouldn't be too tough, seems like lots of people do it for .308, and the light loads shouldn't be very rough on your brass either.
Give it a shot, you got a great deal on it, let it show you it hates heavy and slow loads before you write it off.
Second, I wouldn't get discouraged just yet, I would try your rifle out with a variety of bullet weights and see how it handles the heavies. If you reload, working up a bunch of subsonic loads shouldn't be too tough, seems like lots of people do it for .308, and the light loads shouldn't be very rough on your brass either.
Give it a shot, you got a great deal on it, let it show you it hates heavy and slow loads before you write it off.
With all of those magazines you should be able to get what you paid for it after shooting it some too, as long as you don't booger it up any. Looks like they're selling for about a thousand, usually a little higher on Gunbroker.
Really, I've heard nothing but good things about them, except that they may not be the easiest thing to detail strip in the field, but is that really a situation you find yourself in, wanting to take your gun down to the last pin while out and about?
Maybe someone else will weigh in, but you got an awesome price on what I've heard is a great rifle, and it came with lots of expensive magazines. Give it a shot before you decide it isn't for you.
Really, I've heard nothing but good things about them, except that they may not be the easiest thing to detail strip in the field, but is that really a situation you find yourself in, wanting to take your gun down to the last pin while out and about?
Maybe someone else will weigh in, but you got an awesome price on what I've heard is a great rifle, and it came with lots of expensive magazines. Give it a shot before you decide it isn't for you.
With all of those magazines you should be able to get what you paid for it after shooting it some too, as long as you don't booger it up any. Looks like they're selling for about a thousand, usually a little higher on Gunbroker.
Really, I've heard nothing but good things about them, except that they may not be the easiest thing to detail strip in the field, but is that really a situation you find yourself in, wanting to take your gun down to the last pin while out and about?
Maybe someone else will weigh in, but you got an awesome price on what I've heard is a great rifle, and it came with lots of expensive magazines. Give it a shot before you decide it isn't for you.
Really, I've heard nothing but good things about them, except that they may not be the easiest thing to detail strip in the field, but is that really a situation you find yourself in, wanting to take your gun down to the last pin while out and about?
Maybe someone else will weigh in, but you got an awesome price on what I've heard is a great rifle, and it came with lots of expensive magazines. Give it a shot before you decide it isn't for you.
dprice3844444
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get some 200 or bigger pills and try it
barnbwt
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You are correct, Sir!
The FNAR is a short-stroke gas operation with rotary lockup. Unlike the BAR (or any similar semi-auto rifles I am aware of), the FNAR is guaranteed to have 1 MOA out of the box. That's what supposedly sets it apart from the Browning BAR hunting rifles. My theory is it was intended to be used for varmint hunting (high capacity, powerful caliber, accurate at distance, rails for lights, etc.), namely hogs.
A suppressor would be nice for range shooting, since the reduced muzzle blast combined with lighter recoil would wear you out much slower. I would think the added length and weight would make the gun really awkward to transport. I already have trouble finding cases to accomodate its tall pistol grip and the scope up top.
I think you would be hard pressed to improve upon a platform that can throw dozens of .308 rounds down range a minute inside a 2" circle (my groups open up after the first clip or so due to fatigue, and probably fouling/barrel heat). If you do manage to put together a suppressed setup, be sure to report back on it. I know there is currently zilch in the aftermarket for this gun, so it would be cool to see how others' mods turn out.
TCB
ApacheCoTodd
member
Looks to me like FN scrambling to get ahead of the Army's general dissatisfaction with AR-10 based sniper/counter sniper platforms as well as the sub-par re-fielding of M-14/M-21s designated marksmen/Sniper platforms.
16" & 20", rails, pistol grip, recessed crown, up to a 20 round box mag....
16" & 20", rails, pistol grip, recessed crown, up to a 20 round box mag....
even if there aren't any aftermarket barrels available, and I don't know that there aren't, any full service gunsmith or decent machine shop should be able to thread your barrel without any trouble.
Lots of .308 rifles get suppressed, I really would take your time and see how the rifle works out. You got a good enough deal on it that you won't be losing money on it unless you really put some work into it. Don't thread it till you see how it likes the 200 and 220 grain bullets.
Lots of .308 rifles get suppressed, I really would take your time and see how the rifle works out. You got a good enough deal on it that you won't be losing money on it unless you really put some work into it. Don't thread it till you see how it likes the 200 and 220 grain bullets.
My younger brother acquired one a couple of months ago. As it has been stated already this rifle is not modular like the AR platforms but as a semi automatic rifle it is one of the most accurate rifles right out of the box. My brother was getting sub-moa groups at 100 yds with hornady match superformance rounds. The most negative aspect of this rifle I have would be that breaking it apart for field stripping is not easy. But with practice and time it will become automatic.
If you are unhappy with rifle I'll give you $100 more than what you paid for it.
If you are unhappy with rifle I'll give you $100 more than what you paid for it.
JHenry
Member
Thats a pretty good deal, i absolutely love FN, not crazy bout the FNAR, but for that price i would be
barnbwt
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That's sure an understatement. It's not that the rifle is a Rube-Goldberg machine or something (it's actually very simple to understand). It's just that it isn't built from modular groups like most rifles designed for the military. I swear, every single pin, spring, and lever has to be removed individually to properly clean the gun. I wouldn't attempt this undertaking without a well lit table.
On the plus side, it is supposed to go far longer between cleanings that most gas semi-autos. Every couple months/several hundered rounds.
TCB
You can shoot subsonic out of just about anything, you just need to aware of the limitations. Based on my experience, a 1-8 twist is good for subsonic 240 grain hpbt, a 1-10 is good for 220 grain RN and a 1-12 twist is good for 180 grain RN. I have found that 220 key holes in a 1-12 twist. Had I tried it with the silencer on, it probably would have been ruined. Do not try going higher than 180 grains with a silencer until you test them at subsonic speeds unsuppressed and verify no keyholing in the target.
What is the operating system on that rifle? Where does the gas vent? The direct impingement systems on the AR-15/10 are not as noisy as those on the AK's and M-1a's. The M-1 carbine gas system vents into the barrel, but the gas rushing out of the chamber and into my face is quite nasty when suppressed. You may want to ask the manufacturer if the rifle is compatable with a silencer.
I have found that shooting subsonic ammo in a rifle intended for supersonic ammo results at best in half the accuracy that you are used to seeing with standard ammo. My suppressed 308 bolt guns and 5.56 AR-15 are 2 moa guns when used with my handloaded subonsic ammo. The only exception is my 300 whisper AR-15 which is designed to shoot subsonic.
Ranb
What is the operating system on that rifle? Where does the gas vent? The direct impingement systems on the AR-15/10 are not as noisy as those on the AK's and M-1a's. The M-1 carbine gas system vents into the barrel, but the gas rushing out of the chamber and into my face is quite nasty when suppressed. You may want to ask the manufacturer if the rifle is compatable with a silencer.
I have found that shooting subsonic ammo in a rifle intended for supersonic ammo results at best in half the accuracy that you are used to seeing with standard ammo. My suppressed 308 bolt guns and 5.56 AR-15 are 2 moa guns when used with my handloaded subonsic ammo. The only exception is my 300 whisper AR-15 which is designed to shoot subsonic.
Ranb
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451 Detonics
Member
The big plus of the Whisper is the reduced case capacity. The fuller the case is the lower the standard deviation tends to be due to power positioning. The lower the SD normally the better the accuracy. In .308 I used to load a special sub-sonic case that had super thick case walls to reduce capacity but with the advent of Trail Boss powder that is no longer needed. I am using 9.7 grains of Trail Boss under a 180 bullet, works very well...accurate and quiet through my suppressed Ruger 77.
The FNAR was not designed for military applications.
I'm not aware of any "upper" you can swap on it. Not aware of any aftermarket barrels sold for it.
It's nothing like an AR15 rifle.
It's also not an FNAR 10.
Are you sure you know what you have?
Denis
I'm not aware of any "upper" you can swap on it. Not aware of any aftermarket barrels sold for it.
It's nothing like an AR15 rifle.
It's also not an FNAR 10.
Are you sure you know what you have?
Denis
I wanted to get as quiet as I could, so I picked up this integral suppressed FN Patrol in .308 from http://fullysuppressed.com/fnpatrolbolt.html.
Subsonic ammo only.
Subsonic ammo only.
I believe I have well demonstrated I do not!!! Jk. But I can't say I wasn't helped much by the dealer that sold it to me. He specifically called it an AR10. I really don't know that much about rifles. I just learned what "twist rate" means in the past 2 weeks. I've hunted alot and shot very little. Like most hunters I just point an pull the trigger on my old 3006 and done just fine. However with a new rifle I'd like to get into shooting more. All I knew is I wanted something semi auto because a bolt gun I have found on several occasions to be too slow. I also wanted a gun to do it all. 308 was the perfect caliber for that, since I don't reload and I've found some factor non corrosive ammo for cheap ($179 for 500 rounds from the local surplus store). A whisper 300 would be nice, but I could see a silencer very useful for super and sub sonic use. The problem I see with the whisper is it's supposable a "medium range gun" and probably wouldn't be very great for elk hunting. Plus factory ammo wouldn't be cheap. So after doing a little research I'm thinking of either selling it and buying a DPMS panther LR-308L. They seem to be a little more set up for hunting. Or I'm curious about the person that said a gunsmith could change the twist rate on the barrel? How much does that usually cost? I will probably also do more research first and see how well I can actually shoot 180 grain or lower bullets with subsonic. Somebody said you can, but others say you have a good chance of not stabilizing and ruining your silencer. Considering the silencer will likely cost more than the rifle, I want a 0% chance of this happening.
One final question what exactly is a 1:12 twist good for? I've read it's an "obsolete twist rate." But obviously there has to be some advantage to it? If I had to take a logical guess I would say it's made for short to medium range shooting. But most of what I've read on the FNAR is it is very accurate long range weapon?
Thanks for all the help and opinion so far. Just since I got a few private message where I bought it from it was a sale on the one gun they had left at wholesale sports (in Bend Oregon in mid december. They only had one left, didn't take rainchecks, and no other stores sold it for that. They also said it was quite a bit less than they bought it for. I think it was a christmas, "bring em in to the store" type deal.
The FNAR is built by FN to be a reliable & accurate LONGER range .308 semi-auto, based on the older Browning BAR HUNTING RIFLE ACTION.
It has nothing in common with an AR-10 design aside from the .308 caliber.
You can't switch calibers or "uppers", since there is no switchable "upper" on the gun.
It IS accurate at longer distances, with a good scope.
It's reliable, it's also heavy & a nuisance to break down for cleaning. Unless you hunt from a stand, you won't enjoy hunting with it much.
FN intends it for police & long range shooters, 500-800 yards or so, with good glass. It has no iron sights, as you probably noted, and whoever told you it's an AR10 was an idiot, IF it's an FNAR.
If what you have LOOKS like an AR in profile, has an upper & lower receiver section, and uses an AR mechanism internally, then it's not an FNAR.
I've never dealt with subsonics in the .308, but there's nothing wrong with a 1/12 twist for general use in the 168-grain range for the caliber.
You can't change the twist rate in the barrel, unless you go to a larger caliber. Not cost effective & probably not particularly compatible with the gas system & action as the FNAR is set up at the factory.
Your best bet to get what you want is sell the gun unfired, if it is an FNAR, take the loss if any, pay more attention to what you're doing BEFORE you buy next time, and get an actual .308 AR-10 from whoever.
Also, suppressors will still not make your gun "Hollywood quiet" even with subsonics, you may end up with more gunk in your AR action, and the suppressor will require cleaning & maintenance. You'll also lose distance & power with subsonics. You may want to re-think that, too.
Denis
It has nothing in common with an AR-10 design aside from the .308 caliber.
You can't switch calibers or "uppers", since there is no switchable "upper" on the gun.
It IS accurate at longer distances, with a good scope.
It's reliable, it's also heavy & a nuisance to break down for cleaning. Unless you hunt from a stand, you won't enjoy hunting with it much.
FN intends it for police & long range shooters, 500-800 yards or so, with good glass. It has no iron sights, as you probably noted, and whoever told you it's an AR10 was an idiot, IF it's an FNAR.
If what you have LOOKS like an AR in profile, has an upper & lower receiver section, and uses an AR mechanism internally, then it's not an FNAR.
I've never dealt with subsonics in the .308, but there's nothing wrong with a 1/12 twist for general use in the 168-grain range for the caliber.
You can't change the twist rate in the barrel, unless you go to a larger caliber. Not cost effective & probably not particularly compatible with the gas system & action as the FNAR is set up at the factory.
Your best bet to get what you want is sell the gun unfired, if it is an FNAR, take the loss if any, pay more attention to what you're doing BEFORE you buy next time, and get an actual .308 AR-10 from whoever.
Also, suppressors will still not make your gun "Hollywood quiet" even with subsonics, you may end up with more gunk in your AR action, and the suppressor will require cleaning & maintenance. You'll also lose distance & power with subsonics. You may want to re-think that, too.
Denis
AethelstanAegen
Member
A decent .308 suppressor will probably also run you about as much as your rifle given the cost of the suppressor itself and the $200 tax. Since you're not familiar with firearms, you should also do some research to ensure suppressors are legal in your area (many states/localities have their own laws, particularly around the use of suppressors for hunting).
Since there's confusion about what rifle you own, you might want to take a picture of it so we can tell for sure if you have an AR10 or an FNAR. For what it's worth, you got a good deal if it's an FNAR.
Since there's confusion about what rifle you own, you might want to take a picture of it so we can tell for sure if you have an AR10 or an FNAR. For what it's worth, you got a good deal if it's an FNAR.
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