One of my coworkers keeps saying he wants to get a full auto rifle without a class 3 license, and several of us have told him that even though we can't cite regulations it surely wouldn't be worth the trouble you would get into. Rather than try to find the laws myself it would be easier to ask you guys. I don't know if there are state laws as well as federal ones.I'm hoping some LEO's on here that can enlighten me so I can convince him that's it not worth it. Thanks in advance!
Full Auto implications? (Ohio)
- Thread starter bakeryman
- Start date
- Status
LE in your area should be thankful that your friend has decided to save them considerable trouble by describing his plans to coworkers before he has even carried them out. 
No such thing as a class 3 licence for owning a full-auto, though there are class 3 dealers. If your friend can find a transferable machine gun (made before 1986), he can purchase it by sending $200 to the ATF, getting the chief LEO in his area to sign off, and waiting several months. Same with suppressors.
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
Owning a machinegun that isn't registered per the National Firearms Act of 1934 is a wonderful way to score a vacation to the greybar hotel.
armoredman
Member
Actually, our prison cells are grey with dark blue trim. All the bars/cellfronts/cell doors are the same dark blue....just to throw that out for general disdain!
ATFE has NO sense of humor. Your buddy needs a fast wake up call.
ATFE has NO sense of humor. Your buddy needs a fast wake up call.
Can we get it with a matching sheet set and comforter? Perhaps something in a nice slate to offset the blue trim in club fed?
Tell your buddy to pay the tax, it isn't squat compared to a legally aquired Title II rifle these days. If he goes the other route, well, he already can't keep his mouth shut so tell him goodbye now before the black helicopters come get him.
Tell your buddy to pay the tax, it isn't squat compared to a legally aquired Title II rifle these days. If he goes the other route, well, he already can't keep his mouth shut so tell him goodbye now before the black helicopters come get him.
bakeryman said:
I'm not quite sure what this statement means, so I'll just try to lay out the basics for you.
Any firearm that will fire more than one shot for each pull of the trigger is considered a "machine gun" under federal law. Thanks to the National Firearms Act of 1934 (the "NFA"), all machine guns have to be registered with BATFE. There are two ways to buy one. One way is to be a federally licensed dealer in NFA items (commonly known as a "Class III" dealer). That's not easy or inexpensive for most people.
The easier route is to buy a properly registered machine gun from a licensed Class III dealer. You need to undergo a lengthy (3 months is common) federal background check and pay a $200 transfer tax. The machine gun will then cost a minimum of $3,000 for something like a MAC sub gun, or in the range of $7,000 to $25,000 for rifle caliber assault rifles and machine guns.
The reason they are so expensive is that it has been illegal to import machine guns for civilians since 1968, and has been illegal to register any new machine guns since 1986 (thanks to the ironically named "Firearms Owners Protection Act of 1986" that closed the registry permanently). Thus, machine guns are like real estate -- they ain't making any more of 'em.
If your friend was suggesting that he might buy a full auto rifle that isn't registered with BATFE, or that he might buy one without going through a Class III dealer, undergoing the background check and paying the transfer tax, then he was suggesting the commission of a federal felony that will definitely result in prison time. BATFE takes these things very, very seriously.
Thanks for the replies, this guy is very hardheaded without much common sense and even though several other people has told him how much trouble he could get in. We also had to tell him how useless the " I bought it at a gun show and didn't know it was a full auto" excuse would be as a plead of ignorance wouldn't matter much to the BATF.
It is illegal to own a machinegun that isn't registered per the National Firearms Act of 1934. But it is not unlawful.
bakeryman, better start practicing your "he's a good guy. i can't imagine him doing somethign like that. we're all still in shock. i blame society." speech for when the tv crews show up.
CAS700850
Member
Both federal Law and Ohio law prohibit the possession of a fully automatic firearm (a dangerous ordnance under Ohio law) unless the provisions of the Federal laws regarding private owership of fully automatic firearms are complied with. Additionally, some local/city governments have attempted to supercede this by passing ordinances banning any possession, even if the federal laws are complied with.
Any way he looks at it, if he gets caught, he loses. Big time.
Any way he looks at it, if he gets caught, he loses. Big time.
Right, and the existence of this thread shows it's pretty likely that he will get caught. I'm sure lots of people have lawful, illegal machineguns. I hope so. And they don't go talking about them.
BTW move to a free state ASAP.
BTW move to a free state ASAP.
1911 guy
Member
The implications are:
Either pay the 200 dollar tax and then pay $13,000 for a $700 rifle or go to prison. Too much cash for too many problems, in my opinion. But then I have a fairly low opinion of full auto fire as well.
Either pay the 200 dollar tax and then pay $13,000 for a $700 rifle or go to prison. Too much cash for too many problems, in my opinion. But then I have a fairly low opinion of full auto fire as well.
No it wouldn't. In fact just having certain parts will get you in trouble.
Your friend should settle for going to certain ranges and RENTING full auto weapons. Or be happy having cilvian legal version of the same weapons.
-Bill
Not worth it ?
My guess as to what would happen to him:
The weapon would be confiscated and he would be thrown in jail.
His house would be tossed.
No matter what, anti-government or terrorist literature WOULD be found in the house.
He will be branded as a threat to national security.
ALL his assets would be seized: they will find some law to allow this......or not.
Sounds like fun ? Go ahead then.
Or, you could pay $200 for the tax stamp. But that is a lot of money.
My guess as to what would happen to him:
The weapon would be confiscated and he would be thrown in jail.
His house would be tossed.
No matter what, anti-government or terrorist literature WOULD be found in the house.
He will be branded as a threat to national security.
ALL his assets would be seized: they will find some law to allow this......or not.
Sounds like fun ? Go ahead then.
Or, you could pay $200 for the tax stamp. But that is a lot of money.
Ive never seen a full auto firearm dumped at a gunshow that wasnt setting on a class 3 table for registered purchase.there are both, cops in the entrance inspecting guns coming in and plainclothes "detectives" throughout the place looking out for political interests.. not to mention the stings that have gone on in the past.the so called gunshow loop hole is a lie.Fa arms are not for sale wholesale to anyone that wants one at a show.
I think 444 has it correct, and the papers will print a huge story about the guy being a militant or something, not to mention his buddies names as well.
I think 444 has it correct, and the papers will print a huge story about the guy being a militant or something, not to mention his buddies names as well.
the gunshow loophole isn't about full autos... it's about private sales.
i go to several gun shows each year and have only ever seen about 20 or so full autos total. if i wanted to sell a $10-20k firearm, the last place i'd go is to a place packed with people looking for beef jerky and $3 knives for $1.50
i don't think the cops at the exits could pick a full auto out of a lineup
i go to several gun shows each year and have only ever seen about 20 or so full autos total. if i wanted to sell a $10-20k firearm, the last place i'd go is to a place packed with people looking for beef jerky and $3 knives for $1.50
i don't think the cops at the exits could pick a full auto out of a lineup
whm1974 said:
I own an NFA weapon.
Some rules to follow for happy life:
1) Don't try and cross a busy interstate
2) Don't get involved in a land war in Asia
3) Don't weld without a helmet
4) Don't mess with the IRS
5) Don't touch, talk about, hint, build, joke about illegal full-auto weapons
6) Don't hang out with people who do any of the above
#5 is the dumbest.
Bill is very right, not only can you go to a range and rent, but most of these places will, (imagine that) actually teach you how to shoot! And while the $3000 for a MAC or $6k to $7k for an Uzi isn't really that much money in the scheme of most people's lives, at a range you can rent guns that would sell for more than many of the cars we drive. (Oh, and if you do buy an NFA gun, it's not just a "toy", it's an investment. Try 13% per year on average. Do that with your mutual fund)
Of course real men don't need to touch such things, they just pull out their .45s, and take pot shots at the passing bomber overhead, pointing at their nose and yelling "right here you sob!"
Tell your buddy that if he does do this, you'll be obligated to turn him in. If you didn't you could face a "conspiracy" charge in his crime.
Right, you have very limited (legal)market you can sell to. Most people would not want to deal with the legal hassel of owning an NFA item.
Wouldn't the gov have to prove this? I think you have help him in some fashion such get him parts or show him how.
I could be wrong.
-Bill
Well, it sounds like you've done your best to persuade him. You can lead a horse to water . . . . and if this one wants to jump into that swift current, get out of his way.
He's not kin. So, just smile and tell this fella you'll miss him. But somehow I bet he's probably got a habit of not listening to good advice. Kind of like stopping a friend from marrying a woman you know is a BAD woman, but he loves her and won't hear anything to the contrary. They get married, you don't see them for a few years because the new woman won't let him hang around his old buddies anymore. Eventually he comes to his senses and gets divorced, and he comes back to tell you that you were right all along.
In the meantime, just like in a bad marriage, you stay away and don't get in between a fool and his woman.
He's not kin. So, just smile and tell this fella you'll miss him. But somehow I bet he's probably got a habit of not listening to good advice. Kind of like stopping a friend from marrying a woman you know is a BAD woman, but he loves her and won't hear anything to the contrary. They get married, you don't see them for a few years because the new woman won't let him hang around his old buddies anymore. Eventually he comes to his senses and gets divorced, and he comes back to tell you that you were right all along.
In the meantime, just like in a bad marriage, you stay away and don't get in between a fool and his woman.
Nothing's illegal unless you're caught. The best way to not get caught is to keep your %$#! mouth shut. Your buddy hasn't figured this out.
If he buys an "off the books" full auto, odds are the seller is either a government agent or a paid informer. In either case your buddy would be in deep you-know-what.
Where will he shoot his unregistered MG? The local rifle range? Hmmm . . .
Considering the downside of acting on his wants, your buddy is not the sharpest knife in the drawer.
If he buys an "off the books" full auto, odds are the seller is either a government agent or a paid informer. In either case your buddy would be in deep you-know-what.
Where will he shoot his unregistered MG? The local rifle range? Hmmm . . .
Considering the downside of acting on his wants, your buddy is not the sharpest knife in the drawer.
- Status
