Galled aluminum showing on the frame rail of my Sig P239 after 300 rounds!

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Macchina

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I have put no more than 5 boxes of standard ammo and a couple boxes of JHP ammo through my Sig P239 over the last year, and during cleaning after my last trip to the range this weekend, I discovered a 1/2" long gouge out of the aluminum rail on the frame of the pistol (in the groove where the slide rides). The coating has been dug out (not just worn off) and the aluminum underneath is rough and can be felt with a pen tip. It is on the side with the slide release and was not there last time I field stripped it (50 rounds ago). I put a bit of oil on the slide rails and check for gunk every time I go to the range. Should I be concerned about this? I'm worried if I shoot it again, the gulling will continue and ruin more of the rail. Is something like premature frame wear covered under warranty? I paid a lot for this pistol and didn't expect to see stuff like this only a few boxes of ammo into its life.

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Where is the damage in relation to the roll pin and the pin that is located near the slide release? Is the roll pin all there I could see this cracking and or sticking out and gouging the slide rail areas.
Does the slide show any wear at all or any burring?

My 239 40 has probably more than 1500+ round I don't know it was a refurbished unit from Sig and my SO's 239 in 9mm has about 600 or so through it and they look identical. as below.
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The gouge is in between the takedown lever and the decocker lever. The slide looks good (no burrs)
 
I added some pics. The roll pin looks like it has some missing finish from around it too. There is a light mark on the slide rail where it looks like somebody ran a wire brush on it near the rear.


Does anyone know an email address for Sig? I'd like to send them these photos and see what they say...
 
It looks like something is/was between the rail and the slide, causing abrasion to the rail's black hard anodized surface. I can't tell from the photos if there is any actual wear on the alloy or if it is just exposed by the removal of the black anodizing.

A burr on the slide was a logical culprit to look for -- your comment indicates none is there, but it could have been worn smooth.

Something relatively hard -- harder than aluminum -- that might have gotten caught in there is another possible cause. The average piece of gunk from firing -- brass flakes, expended power -- shouldn't do that. A small piece of steel might, even over a relatively low number of rounds.

It is also possible the rail bows out slightly at that spot, from a manufacturing irregularity, and is rubbing against the slide. Or I guess the slide could have a slight inward bow to it.

The chance of something abrading or rubbing is greater if the rail/slide is dry. Sigs should be kept well-lubed. (There is a grease vs. oil debate on-going, but any good quality gun lube product should do).

All handguns show some wear as they break-in -- a lot of new Sig owners are alarmed by the appearance of "smilies" on their gun's barrel, for example, but they are simply the evidence of the barrel meeting the hood at the end of its travel and the resultant removal of nitron from the barrel at the point they mate. But yours seems a little out of the ordinary. I have four Sigs, including a P6 and a P228 both dated 1995 and a 2009 P226 and P239. None of them shows wear like yours, although the P228 has some slight and smooth wear (with alloy shining through) at the same spot as yours! The roll pins do get worn flat if they stick out a bit, that's normal -- and the contact helps keeps them in place. :)

You could call Sig C/S at (603) 772-2302 (press #3 for Customer Service). I found it easier to fax them with a description of a problem at (603) 772-4795 and give them an email address, to which they emailed a return authorization and FedEx label. Then you could email the pics to them -- although I think they are going to want to see the actual pistol. They tend to be great about taking a look at a pistol with a problem and returning it rapidly; they don't always articulate what they did to check the problem, but they are the experts.

You could also call someone like Gray Guns, an acknowledged Sig expert shop, at (541) 468-3840, but I wouldn't bother them (they are small/busy) unless I intended to send the gun there for servicing (check their web page for services). http://grayguns.com/

Since the days of the very early P226's (which have undergone a rail shape re-design since) it seems extremely rare to read of anyone wearing out a Sig rail. P239's are little tanks, too. You could let this ride and keep shooting it, or send it back to Sig and achieve peace of mind about it.

That's all I know. Good luck with it!
 
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That's a classic example of something getting between the slide and the frame rails. Even a small grit of sand or something harder than alum as Roversig said could do this. If you notice its right where the cut out for the slide lock groove is when the action is closed. Its odd that it doesn't go the whole length of the slide movement though. Looking at the images and just the images I would say that this wont effect the weapons function at all but I haven't slide the action on it. Sig's have been known to go through some rigorous stuff and keep going boom.
See if Sig will respond but they may not in this case. Hard to say.
 
Well, I looked a little closer, and there is a burr forming on the notch for the slide hold open. You can even see a bit of burnished aluminum on the corner of the notch. I don't think it was something getting caught in there because the scratch is actually higher than where the slide rail touches the frame. I run my Sig with a healthy dose of Miltec-1 on all surfaces of the rail, applied before going to the range. I think I'm going to give them a call, thanks for the numbers. What do you think they will do with it? Seems like a frame replacement is a lot of trouble, but I don't want to shoot it if that burr on the slide is going to dig in more.
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AHAAA yep that be the culprit.

Hard to say until you talk to them. Just be nice tell them there is a burr you suspect is from the machining process that is tearing up the rails. They will probably help ya out some way. They may just hone the burr off and touch up the rails? I cant say for sure... How old is the gun and how far into the warranty is it?
 
Good detective work to find it.

Sig might replace the slide, or they might think it is not necessary. As a minimum, they will remove the burr and function check the gun.

You will always have the repair paperwork so that if anything else ever goes wrong, or it gets worse, you are covered under warranty.

Good luck!
 
BTW: after they take care of it for you, you can protect your frame by using grease instead of an oil to lube your rails.

underlubing the rails is the #1 cause of pre-mature frame wear on a Sig...didn't you get a tube when you bought the gun?
 
It's just over a year old. I absolutlely love this gun, it' been perfect and this is my first problem with it. I think it may have been too good because I am really bummed about this. This is my carry gun (I don't carry everyday) and I wouldn't have cared if I scratched the frame on a non-mating surface, but this really bums me out because of the possibility of decreasing reliability/longevity. I hope they can do more than just make sure it doesn't affect reliability...
 
BTW: after they take care of it for you, you can protect your frame by using grease instead of an oil to lube your rails.

underlubing the rails is the #1 cause of pre-mature frame wear on a Sig...didn't you get a tube when you bought the gun?

It came with a bottle of Miltec-1 that I use liberally on all surfaces of the rail after each cleaning. I don't think this was caused by under lubing or a bit of gunk caught in the rail. I think a burr formed (or was never removed) on the slide hold-open notch.
 
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I think 9mmepiphany is saying Just for future reference, get some good grease for the rails. I bought a Sig 220 beavertail a couple of weeks ago and it came with a sample tube of TW25B grease. I usually hose the rails down pretty good.
 
Actually, too liberal with the grease or the oil is bad for the gun. The excess lube provides a sort of "glue" to hold a piece of grit or other FOD to the lubed surfaces. Just enough to provide a very light "film" is the proper way to lube the gun.

A person can prevent a significant amount of damage by field-stripping the weapon prior to firing, and deburring and lightly honing all sharp corners and flat surfaces with a hard arkansas stone. I'm not talking about attempting to grind the surface, merely slide the stone over the surfaces to remove burrs and lightly chamfer the sharp edges. Stay away from the barrel and slide locking surfaces.
 
Burs notwithstanding smoothing down, I keep my aluminum framed pistols lightly lubed with Tetra Grease (actually, all my pistols). I used LSA in the distant brown-shoe past, but I have come to believe that grease is better. After cleaning & degreasing (I use Prestone Brake Cleaner), I use a cotton tipped applicator (not a Q-Tip; wooden with cotton tip, from Brownell's in my case) to rub it into the rails/grooves of frame & slide, leaving only a very light surface sheen. I don't think a little excess would hurt, I just buff it well & let whatever remains stay. Tetra recommends buffing & leaving about dry, but I like a bit more just for my old-timey sensibilities. Frame wear has been minimal, mostly scuffing & buffing, and though I am sure there are a dozen others that do as well, a number of which I have on hand, Tetra works for me & my harem... :cool:
 
Good luck with getting Sig to replace that frame. If history repeats itself they will refuse to do anything. People have called them about NIB guns showing this type of wear right after one range session and Sig did nothing.

IMHO this is a perfect example of what happens when you speed up production to maximize profit.

In the long run if you properly lube the gun with grease it will still out live you and me.
 
I don't think you guys understand that I religiously oiled the slide on all surfaces with the exact oil (Miltec-1) provided to me by Sig Sauer in the exact manner described in the manual. If this is an oil problem, then thousands of other people should be experiencing the same problem as me.

I guess I will look into using grease from here on out, Tetra looks like a popular ones, are there any better out there (I understand this is equivalent to asking what beer is best)...
 
Any grease is fine. Sig no longer ships guns with Miltech because they are pushing so much metal out the door they feel that grease is a better bet to save people from their OC.

I agree with you 100% oil should be fine. I have run Sigs with oils for years wut no issues. Sigs often wear on the top of the rails and at the back of the rails. Like this P228 swiss import.

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Again I stress that it is very unlikely that this will actually shorten the life of your Sig. You have only shot 300 rounds in a year. Some of my Sigs see that in a days work at the range. Call them see if they will help you out if not get some grease lube it up keep that spot covered maybe take a polishing rag and buff out the burr and shoot shoot shoot!
 
I am a machinist, and have the materials and ability to buff out the burr no problem. Heck, I could get the frame re-annodized if I wanted to pay the price. I'm just bummed that this thing left the factory with a burr in such an important spot. Hopefully Sig with make it right with me...
 
I am a machinist, and have the materials and ability to buff out the burr no problem. Heck, I could get the frame re-annodized if I wanted to pay the price. I'm just bummed that this thing left the factory with a burr in such an important spot. Hopefully Sig with make it right with me...

I would bet that they are going to do nothing. I have not heard of single person getting a new frame after this type of galling.

This is the way the New Sig "Cohen" Sauer rolls. :barf: I feel your pain but again if you are avg 300 rounds a year is the strength of the frame ever going to come into play?
 
if you are avg 300 rounds a year is the strength of the frame ever going to come into play?

I shoot about 100 rounds a month, that's been through my CZ and Ruger lately. This recent 50 rounds was the beginning of shooting 50 rounds a month from the Sig every month... I hope to average about 500 rounds from my carry gun every year. I planned on having this gun for a long time, but from what I've seen of anodizing wear, once it starts, it spreads. I just don't feel like I can shoot it with the kind of consistency I was hoping for...
 
I shoot about 100 rounds a month, that's been through my CZ and Ruger lately. This recent 50 rounds was the beginning of shooting 50 rounds a month from the Sig every month... I hope to average about 500 rounds from my carry gun every year. I planned on having this gun for a long time, but from what I've seen of anodizing wear, once it starts, it spreads. I just don't feel like I can shoot it with the kind of consistency I was hoping for...

I here what you are saying. I am not criticizing your shooting habits. I am pointing out that if you can fix the burr and you lube the gun properly then it should not spread. Even if you shoot 500 rounds a year the gun will out live you.

:)
 
Well, I put a fax into them last Tuesday (16th), and emailed on Wednesday (17th) and have called every day trying to get through. I wait about 5-10 minutes and the "you have 3 calls ahead of you" never changes... Guess it will be back to the calling on Monday...

This gouge has really bummed me out. I spent close to $600 on this gun (well over once you count holsters and mags) and it is all scratched up because they didn't deburr well enough at the factory. From what I've seen of galling like this (on industrial equipment), once you get through the annodizing or other hard surface treatments, the scratch usually spreads.
 
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