Getting better control of your hands

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mikemyers

mikemyers

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I like the saying "a chain is no stronger than its weakest link." If 50 links are perfect, and one is weak, that will be the limit for the strength of the entire chain.

When I think of gun accuracy in target shooting, there are so many "links". Proper stance, proper grip, good trigger control, "front sight", steady hands, a good gun, good ammunition, building up your strength, and so on.

My test for many of these is to see if the front sight moves at all when the trigger is pulled. For me, I don't doubt that I have a long ways to go, but most of the time I can't tell that the front sight does anything most of the time.


The reason why "steady hands" was colored red up above, is that's what I'm asking about here. Other than practice, practice, and yet more practice (live and dry-fire), are there any good suggestions on how to minimize any movement in your hands? I know about "hold your breath", and practicing just holding the gun up in front of you so much and so often that your muscles will get stronger, but are there any other suggestions or advice? We can't very well tell our heart to skip a few beats until after we fire, but maybe there are some things the very best shooters have learned to help with this... :)
 
Gripping more loosely with the strong hand will help a lot. What you will accomplish is reduce the erratic pressure vectors being applied to the frame.

Unless I'm shooting a high precision game like Olympic style competition, I don't pay much attention to breath control.

The ultimate determinate of accurate handgun shooting is trigger control
 
Lightening up on the morning coffee on range day always helps me! lol

Better trigger and hand control can be developed but dry firing. With the absence of recoil you can see exactly what your hand is doing while pulling the trigger and you can make the adjustments to fix any flaws you find.
 
Sometimes thinking about too many things causes problems. If a new shooter understands sight pictures and his trigger control is improving that may be all he needs to think about. With only a little very basic instruction in grip most people naturally get most of it right. Flooding a new shooter with details is sometimes overwhelming and it creates problems they would have never come up with on their own.

One of the most helpful things if your reach a point where you stop improving is to have an experienced shooter watch you and he may be able to point out something that you can work on, provided he understands that every shooter doesn't hold the gun in exactly the same way.
 
40-82 said:
Sometimes thinking about too many things causes problems.......
Click to expand...


You're reminding me of something I went through two months ago, where I would suddenly realize I was not doing something I had wanted to do. So, I made up my own "checklist", printed it out, and when I go to the range, I put it out on the workbench in front of me, and try to make sure I'm always doing everything on the list.


Last year, I was shooting 5 to 6" groups at 15 yards and wanted to 3". It seemed impossible, but thanks mostly to what I've learned here, and a lot more practice, and starting to dry-fire every day, I'm now down to around 3 1/2" groups, sometimes actually reaching 3. If possible, I'd like to be able to shoot 2" groups. At some point, I'm going to run into the limitations of an old body and old eyes, but I don't think I'm there yet.

(I figure a post like this will help everyone, not just me; I can't be the only one who "forgets" to do something that i should be doing even without being aware I doing it.)
 
morning mm,

suggest getting into the habit of "calling your shot". you should be able to tell where each shot is going to land by observing the front sight alignment when the shot breaks. verify your call by looking at the hole on the target.

this helps with self-diagnosis of each shot and with follow-through.

if the shot doesn't land where you call, something in your shot process is amiss (flinch, grip, trigger finger position, etc.).

don't expect to be able to do this right away. it takes time to get the feel for it. but, it is a good habit to get into imo.

murf
 
mikemyers said:
Other than practice, practice, and yet more practice (live and dry-fire), are there any good suggestions on how to minimize any movement in your hands?
Click to expand...

In a word...relax. Your body and mind.

I recall a target shooter writing on one of these forums that he's got a 10-ring hold but an 8-ring release. ;) There's a lot of shooting wisdom there.

We shoot with our minds: Our hands and eyes are just portals to and instruments of the mind, and the target's merely a recording device. To that end, I can heartily recommend relaxation and visualization techniques, and dumping bad mental habits.

...and yeah, effective dry fire, too. ;)
 
Yup, less coffee helps.

Two other things:
1. Increase your hand and wrist strength. Get some hand squeezers of various strengths and use them, a lot. Do wrist exercise with small weights.

2. Increase your overall cardiovascular fitness. Get into a routine of at least 30 mins. of cardio every day, getting your heart rate up to at least 60 % of max for at least 25% of the time. Get a cheap heart rate monitor so you'll know rather than guess.

(Goes without saying if you smoke or use tobacco...quit!)
 
Ditto what murf said.

It is impossible to hold the sights (gun) perfectly still when squeezing the trigger. As others suggested avoiding caffine and working on hand arm strength will greatly reduce the amount of the motion but it is still there.

I knew a very, very good Bullseye shooter. His secret was he moved his front sight in a Figure 8 motion and when the front sight crossed the top and bottom parts of the 8 he fired the shot.
 
The best video I can find on You Tube at present dealing with the ins and outs of handgun grip is this one;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMzQIHN-LiI

Besides the technicalities I'll just add that while it sounds cliché shooting a handgun well involves a certain amount of Zen like detachment so you can focus on the front sight and trigger pull as well as the proper trigger pull follow through as I've posted in the other threads you've been running recently.

That and some personal honesty relating to your chances for making it onto the US Olympic shooting team. Most of us simply do not have the ability, physical makeup or time to practice to where we can be as good as some of the miracle shooters we quote and refer to for results.

I know that for me it has to be a VERY good day indeed when I can consistently do under 4 inch groups at 20 yards. 60'ish year old fuzzy eyes and shaky nerves will do that regardless of the knowledge and practice.

Never give up TRYING to better yourself. But be honest with yourself and learn to accept your results once you reach your limit. By all means keep trying to do better. Just don't try to rate your own results to others with youth, talent, good looks and lots of girls hanging off their ripped biceps to your/our meager results... :D
 
If you normally drink 5 cups of coffee and only drink two, your body will tell you it needs the other three and it will show up in your group size. When I was shooting PPC we would see it happen all the time. Guys would cut down on the coffee and scores would go down. Drink a cup and the scores were normal.

To keep the front sight from moving, I like dry firing at a blank wall. With a blank wall, all you are concentrating on is sight alignment. Any movement of the sight is very apparent.
 
BCRider said:
The best video I can find on You Tube at present dealing with the ins and outs of handgun grip is this one;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMzQIHN-LiI
Click to expand...

For the most part a good vid, but it ends with some surprising and disappointing BS, IMO: He backs himself into a corner by suggesting that a proper grip prevents muzzle rise, then "shows" with a little rapid fire. Despite his prestidigitation, a proper grip doesn't prevent muzzle rise, as you can still clearly see during his rapid fire. Instead, a proper grip allows the muzzle to consistently return to it's starting place. This happens very fast, so when you don't have to search for proper sight alignment, you can still shoot fast.


StrawHat said:
If you normally drink 5 cups of coffee and only drink two, your body will tell you it needs the other three and it will show up in your group size. When I was shooting PPC we would see it happen all the time. Guys would cut down on the coffee and scores would go down. Drink a cup and the scores were normal.
Click to expand...


+1. Keep your normal routine.
 
StrawHat said:
If you normally drink 5 cups of coffee and only drink two, your body will tell you it needs the other three and it will show up in your group size.......

To keep the front sight from moving, I like dry firing at a blank wall. With a blank wall, all you are concentrating on is sight alignment. Any movement of the sight is very apparent.
Click to expand...


Coffee doesn't effect me much - I can drink a cup at night and go right to sleep. But I did notice last month that the morning I went to the range after having breakfast WITH coffee was one of the days I did the best.

Regarding your second suggestion, I tried shooting at a blank wall for a while, and then put up a single "dot" from one of the targets - it's the "dot" that you use to cover up existing holes. I figured that would sort of look like my 3" target at 15 yards.

My theory from this morning is that my hands get "tired" after so many rounds, and it happens gradually. My first target (10 rounds) was the best I've done in years, 2 1/2" group. The next target was slightly worse, and even more for the following target. This was all shooting SA with my large/heavy S&W Highway Patrolman, 6" barrel. I got to wondering if my hands were really going bad, so I switched to my Model 19-3 with a 2 1/2" barrel. With that, shooting DA, I was back to tighter groups.

I guess one more thing I need to do, is start holding the gun out in front of me for two minutes, or however long I can hold it, and do that over and over and over.....



Thanks - I'll go watch that video now! I've been trying to follow Jerry Miculek's advice as closely as I can. Maybe the video will show more.
 
BCRider said:
The best video I can find on You Tube at present dealing with the ins and outs of handgun grip is this one.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMzQIHN-LiI
Click to expand...

I watched it. I think I learned a lot more from watching Jerry's videos, but maybe I just related to Jerry better?

Thanks though - another video was presented to me right after watching this one, and I think it shows very nicely what NOT to do!!!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uvz6cM_LeW4

(The above video is good for a laugh, but I think anyone who enjoys shooting should watch it, not for enjoyment, but as a warning.....)

BCRider said:
.....Most of us simply do not have the ability, physical makeup or time to practice to where we can be as good as some of the miracle shooters we quote and refer to for results......
Click to expand...


I agree with you 200%. At 70 I doubt I have the ability, the eyes, the strength, and the stability to even get down to my current goal - 2" groups at 15 yards. Still, it's a LOT of fun trying, and when things go best, I "only" have half an inch more to go..... Then I look around the range watching others shoot, and that reminds me of how far I've already come.
 
hey mikemyers,

don't mean to be critical here. i'm only making suggestions. you have come a long way since your first post regarding the model 28. i'm sure a lot of viewers are learning a lot.

anyway, i notice a psychological impass regarding that massive (large/heavy) revolver you are shooting. i don't think you will improve much more until you get over your reservations about shooting it. eventually, i think, it will become as comfortable to you as your model 19 is right now. time and quality practice will make it so. so don't get frustrated.

push-ups will help a lot with arm and, especially, wrist strength.

again, your increase in accuracy is amazing.

murf
 
Mike, if you're managing 2 1/2" at 15 then you're likely better than 80% or more of the shooters out there already.

We get disillusioned with our own results because we're hanging with regular shooters that are also good shooters and do better due to youth and good vision. So we look at our target's and sigh in resignation despite trying to do our best.

However for around a year and a half I was helping out on the Friday "Lady's Nights" at the local rental range. Let me tell you.... well, we don't have enough bandwidth to share all the examples of horrendous shooters that thought they were Special Forces sharpshooter material. Yet they would barely be able to hit the barn door from INSIDE the barn. We're talking about the sort that if they were shooting at you the safest thing you could do is stand still. If you moved you might run into one of their misses by accident.

So take heart. You are NOT that bad if you're getting groups of under 3 at 15.

Now I'm not saying to stop trying. It's by trying that we get better.... Or at least hold off any further degradation.... :D

Oh, I'm not that far behind you at 61. OLD GUY POWER RULZ! ! ! ! ! :D
 
murf said:
.......i notice a psychological impass regarding that massive (large/heavy) revolver you are shooting. i don't think you will improve much more until you get over your reservations about shooting it......
Click to expand...


Thanks guys, and ya, I do feel a little "intimidated" by it I guess. It feels more like "a challenge" rather than "a part of me".

In the 1980's, I used to shoot two '44 S&Ws, one my very first revolver, that I had a scope installed on, and a Silhouette version with a 10 5/8" barrel. I got both of them out last week, to see how their triggers compared to my Highway Patrolman. Now you've got me thinking - maybe I should take one of them to the range on my next trip. After that, the Highway Patrolman might feel like a toy! Or I should leave the two of them side by side overnight.... same result!!! :)


I still have several boxes of my handloaded "light loads" from back then, and i recently purchased some 44 Special ammo. I rarely fired either of them with magnum loads, as I didn't enjoy it that much.
 
mikemyers said:
Coffee doesn't effect me much - I can drink a cup at night and go right to sleep. But I did notice last month that the morning I went to the range after having breakfast WITH coffee was one of the days I did the best.

Regarding your second suggestion, I tried shooting at a blank wall for a while, and then put up a single "dot" from one of the targets - it's the "dot" that you use to cover up existing holes. I figured that would sort of look like my 3" target at 15 yards.

My theory from this morning is that my hands get "tired" after so many rounds, and it happens gradually. My first target (10 rounds) was the best I've done in years, 2 1/2" group. The next target was slightly worse, and even more for the following target. This was all shooting SA with my large/heavy S&W Highway Patrolman, 6" barrel. I got to wondering if my hands were really going bad, so I switched to my Model 19-3 with a 2 1/2" barrel. With that, shooting DA, I was back to tighter groups.

I guess one more thing I need to do, is start holding the gun out in front of me for two minutes, or however long I can hold it, and do that over and over and over.....



Thanks - I'll go watch that video now! I've been trying to follow Jerry Miculek's advice as closely as I can. Maybe the video will show more.
Click to expand...
Some years back I saw a video of BOPE training with weights to increase their stamina. Hold a 5 pound weight out in front of you for a set amount of time. Increase the weight and reps. This should help build your muscle.
It was originally done in the rifle position, but it should still hold true for handguns.
 
I drink a lot of coffee, one of the many traits I carried out of the engine room when I left the ships. My body is used to it but if I skip it, my groups open up and it is noticeable.

Good luck with the M28, I find it a good revolver if you need a 357.
 
I revived my shooting passion and returned to regular hand gun shooting last Summer in preparation for Illinois CCL....After almost 30 years of pursuing other Martial Arts I was pretty rusty but it came back fairly quickly.

To accommodate Appendix carry and "get back in shape" I began to control my diet and returned to weight training and stretching as well and lost 30 pounds (of fat) and now my shoulders are way wider than my waist again and at 58 I can drop and do 25 push ups at will. A by product of better conditioning as been my shooting skills.

Better trigger/finger control, more forearm mass, flexibility and strength.....it's just remarkably better and I can now handle recoil and calibers in shoot 'n move that were too brisk for me 1 year ago. I'm gaining confidence with my .357 magnum and .45 ACP pistols in accurate rapid fire I have never possessed before. Undoubtedly some of this is due to the increased practice. But I'm certain that a lot of it is due to superior physical conditioning due to the weight training and flexibility exercises.

Wrist/forearm training has even improved my guitar playing after 40 years so there's something to be said for it even past one's prime. Dedicated forearm training and hand training (these new fangled grip exercisers are The Bomb...) has definitely improved my trigger and hand control, recoil tolerance, follow up speed, and hand coordination with finger strength and control.

VooDoo
 
If you feel that you are getting some jump from your heartbeat (more evident in rifle shooting, for me), work on reducing your pulse. Fitness is a big part of it, but you can influence it momentarily. Try taking your pulse when seated. After a few seconds take a deep breath and let it out very slowly. Your pulse should slow significantly for several seconds. At the shooting line, you can ready for your shot, take a deep breath, and squeeze the trigger as you let it out slowly. Pulse jump will be less of a factor as your rate slows.
 
Lightening up on the morning coffee on range day always helps me! lol
Click to expand...

Funny you say that. I actually had to leave the pistol lanes one day because I had drained 2 french vanilla cappuchinos back to back that morning. Hands were shaky, couldnt hit squat. Just grabbed my targets and stuff, told the other guys, "Im outta here, to much coffee this am". (I never drink coffee/cappuchino but for some reason that morning I thought it was a swell idea)

Epiphany,
How "loose" are you talking, on your strong hand grip?
 
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