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Gonzales supports the AWB

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the 2nd party (in this case Dems) must find new votes, and spends a few years just deciding from which end of the spectrum to reach, right or left. If they try both (which is the tempting gamble, risk it all to win big) they lose their base, and are critically weakened.
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Without immigration control and efforts to make other minority children productive citizens who aren't receiving assistance, the Dems base will grow steadily, reinforcing a trend toward socialism. If via abortion rights, gay marriage, or keeping religion out of government, the Dems become characterized by the religious right as the work of the Devil, then it could get interesting. However, that will not be about the socialist core issues of the Dems. I think the GOP will, on its face, be quite moderate.

We'll see, but if they want to offer me Newt Gingrich, forget it. The guy's dangerously smug and a real dinosaur in my opinion.
 
I'm pretty sure Kennedy was an NRA member. I've seen a copy of a letter about this on the web.

Also, here's a quote from Hubert Humphrey -
"The right of citizens to bear arms is just one guarantee against arbitrary government, one more safeguard against the tyranny which now appears remote in America, but which historically has proved to be always possible." --
Senator Hubert H. Humphrey (D-Minnesota)"

The point is that most current Democrats are bad on the RKBA. That doesn't mean that George W. Bush is good on the issue. Many of you can't get that through your heads. At best, Bush won't push for new laws. He will sign them if somehow they get to him. I want you to recall that he spent almost zero political capital on the manufacturer's protection bill. The bill was sunk because of the attempt to tie it to the AWB. That attempt was successful because:

1. Bush supported the AWB and was in a logical bind
2. He didn't go to the wall for the bill.

Now the 9th Circuit and Supreme Court are allowing such suits. Thanks, George.

So he's not a good gun president. That is a separate issue from whether the Democrats are worse. Electing him was better on the gun issue than electing a Democrat but that still doesn't make him a good gun president. It is very simple unless you are blinded by some kind of ideological loyality and inability to criticize him.
 
Who is refusing to criticize him ? My only point, and it’s a small one, is that it is disingenuous to characterize him as an “anti†(one of the strongest THR epithets) when his record has been the most pro-RKBA of any president in our lifetimes.

I’m not saying he’s perfect; I’m not saying we can’t do better. I’m not saying we can let our guard down and not keep the screws applied to our congress critters. I am saying he is way better for us than Kerry.
 
So he's not a good gun president.
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Who signed the laws we hate? I don't believe there are any gun laws we like. Was there ever in recent history a "good gun president" other than one that didn't sign anything infamous, perhaps not offered anything to sign in regard to guns? 'Pretty much off their radar, I would say, with the exception of Clinton, leaving it up to Congress.
 
My point is made, he is just one of the lesser bad gun presidents.

A good gun president is one who would proactively move to pass progun legislation and void bad laws. Can't say that Bush is in that mode.

If he puts the same effort into those two activities - passing progun laws, getting rid of bad laws, that he puts into tax cuts - then that's a good gun president.

Not being super crappy but mildly crappy is not good.

What could he do?

1. Vigourously fight for the manufacturer's protection bill
2. Push for national CCW reciprocity
3. Push to get rid of the Post office ban
4. Make sure the armed pilots program is on track
5. Make a speech that the armed citizen is fundamental to the WOT, and thus CCW at schools is to be encouraged
6. Get rid of stupid NFA provision and the like

I'm sure I could think of more but I doubt he will do anything like this.

It is sad that we take a lack of negative action as being the best we can get.

I agree he is better than Kerry but one must admit that these kinds of threads, do sometimes get full of praise for him.
 
I look to Congress to be proactive about guns, pro or con. If Bush's speech yesterday and the State of the Union speech upcoming are considered, it's clear that guns are not within the scope of current presidential concerns. I too would hold a President accountable for what he signs but would have to be sympathetic if no line item veto power is granted, forcing him to throw the baby out with the bath water just to please me. The onus is on Congress in my opinion. Bills have to be clean or they will make a mockery of the process.

I am not sure any of this ruminating matters, because I don't think we will see any gun legislation coming out of committee for a long time.
 
If you figure that the next time you see gun legislation being offered it will be when the Dems control congress and the White House, then it is significant that nothing is happening now. We need to make gains while the pro-RKBA forces are in control. Otherwise, we keep ratcheting backwards everytime the antis are in control.
 
It's a joke, speaking of Bush and "vetos" in the same breath. He got through his first term without vetoing anything, even things he said he'd veto, and I fully expect an equally pathetic performance in his second term.
 
I want you to recall that he spent almost zero political capital on the manufacturer's protection bill. The bill was sunk because of the attempt to tie it to the AWB.
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So Bush = bad because he didn't denounce the AWB and Bush also = bad because he let the manufacturer's protection bill be sunk after the AWB renewal was attached to it? Do you see any contradiction in that statement?

Bush wrote a letter to Congress specifically asking that the AWB not be included with the manufacturer's protection bill. Exactly what should Bush have done beyond this measure to influence Congress? What specific deals should he have offered Democrats on this measure? Rather than offer us vague assertions such as "not spending enough political capital", outline the specific actions your ideal RKBA president would have taken faced with that same scenario.
 
GWB will NEVER push for any pro-gun bills!!! He is to busy worried about his Guest Worker crap. Election over now with both parties starts the great sell out of America!!
 
NO, reply to above from the Mod.

It was his support for the AWB that let that window of vulnerability occur. I wonder why you fail to see that. It was incredibly predictable. Also, GOP support was not there, IIRC. If he couldn't get behind the scenes and fight for it with his own people, he is a poor excuse as a politician. The letter came out at the last minute as a feeble attempt.

Make excuses - I prefer a person who loudly announces his stand for a basic freedom and fights for it.
 
Election over now with both parties starts the great sell out of America!!
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I find this "sell out" theory that people put forth as nothing more than hysterical rhetoric. I have still not received a good answer as why Dubya would suddenly "sell out" regarding the gun issue and push for more gun control. What this "sell out" crowd doesn't seem to understand is that there is an election every two years. Yes the President won't be up for election, but 435 House members and 33 to 34 Senators will be. The parties need these people and so they won't be "selling out" their constituents anytime soon. Not to mention both parties want the White House in 2008. This means the Republicans know that if they piss too many people off now, they can kiss their chances good bye in 2008.

There is no incentive whatsoever for the Republican Party to suddenly change their stance on firearms and join the Democrats in wholesale bans of firearms. The Republicans saw exactly what happened to Congress in 1994 after the first AWB. They will not make the same mistakes the Democrats did that year.

I guess my points though aren't as exciting and it keeps me from being able to whip up a good old fashion batch of hysterical fear. So what the hell, here goes...

BE READY FOR SELL OUT 2005!
 
You know,it truly amazes me the extent you so called "conservatives" will go to defend your lord and master President Bush. Every thing he does that wipes his butt with the Constitution,you defend him by saying"Well,he REALLY meant something else"
He is Pro abortion,pro assault weapon ban,pro open border,pro amnesty for all illegals that are already here, pro MASSIVE spending,etc.et al.
Wake up.
 
Anyone who can say he will sign the AWB if it gets to his desk you really think is pro-gun?? To me if he was pro-gun he would have had the ball to say if it gets to his desk he will veto it!
 
Silver Bullet said:
If you figure that the next time you see gun legislation being offered it will be when the Dems control congress and the White House, then it is significant that nothing is happening now. We need to make gains while the pro-RKBA forces are in control. Otherwise, we keep ratcheting backwards everytime the antis are in control.
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What makes you think the pro-RKBA forces are in control?
 
They have recieved my vote faithfully since the first Clinton term. It is now time to see some results.
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Votes are cheap! Give 'em enough money and you will get the government you want. That is the great thing about living here in Ohio (or the U$ofA for that matter), every citizen has the right to the best government he/she can afford.
 
I think we've got a reprieve for awhile. Don't think a Repub congress will push any gun control, but watch out when the balance changes. And it will.
 
They might not push and anti-gun bills but my money says you won't see any pro-gun bills pushed either. With Republicans in control of both houses what do you think we will see??We should see alot of the anti-gun bills from the past gone. Then we should see us mutts have the same rights as active and retired leo has as far as national carry goes. Can Washington make it happen? You bet they can! Will they do any of it?? My money says they won't do a bit of it. Anyone betting i'm wrong????????????
 
Make excuses - I prefer a person who loudly announces his stand for a basic freedom and fights for it.
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No contemporary President I know of was any darling of the NRA , GOA, et al. All this bluster about it is IMO just another excuse to bash George Bush, who actually had a decent pro-gun record coming in and hasn't done anything to change that to my knowledge. I don't intend to make excuses. I merely try to be objective rather than be predisposed to say the guy (Bush) can't do or say anything right at any time on any issue, which is what some would seem to want me to believe.

My inclination is to accept who the POTUS is and stand behind him. Politically I would be more concerned about the next election.
 
RealGun - I think that the polls show hispanic voters lean towards Republicans.

Hoji - "You know,it truly amazes me the extent you so called "conservatives" will go to defend your lord and master President Bush."

Hoji, man, that's just goin to put people on the defensive, and they won't be able to look at your opinion objectively. If you start off with an insult it doesn't matter what you say next, you won't convince a soul.

Incidentally, from the economic stand-point illegals are good for the economy - it's like inventing a new car engine that gives you 200 miles/gallon. If someome prunes a rich person's garden for $5/hour instead of $20/hour, then that rich person puts the surplus money into other endeavours, they could have 4 gardens pruned for the same price, 400% efficiency.
 
RealGun - I think that the polls show hispanic voters lean towards Republicans.
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John McCain will set 'em straight. Arizona has had it with the burden on taxpayers presented by illegal immigrants.
 
"Incidentally, from the economic stand-point illegals are good for the economy - it's like inventing a new car engine that gives you 200 miles/gallon. If someome prunes a rich person's garden for $5/hour instead of $20/hour, then that rich person puts the surplus money into other endeavours, they could have 4 gardens pruned for the same price, 400% efficiency."

The problem with that reasoning is that the "illegals" are just exactly that: Criminals. And if you think that somebody who's willing to break our laws in order to enter the country will be obsessively law abiding once they're here... Well, maybe some of them will, but a lot of them don't, and criminal illegal aliens totally swamp any economic benefit from the cheap labor.

The Illegal Alien Crime Wave
 
hoji,

"He is Pro abortion,pro assault weapon ban,pro open border,pro amnesty for all illegals that are already here, pro MASSIVE spending,etc.et al.
Wake up."

Er.....um. X-ring.

"You know,it truly amazes me the extent you so called "conservatives" will go to defend President Bush."

I'm no shrink but I think it's called "denial". Make that "Denial".

In defense of so called "conservatives", we don't all suffer from this disorder.
I'm sure you've heard of a "personality" disorder, this is an "apology" disorder.
:)
S-
 
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