Good handgun for small, female college student..?

[killchain]

FNP-45.

If you're gonna go, go big.

Or get a Ruger LCR. .38SPL is a tried and true manstopper.

 

[Quickstrike]

Buy a police trade-in glock19 and sand off the finger grooves = cheap, very reliable and very shootable.

SCREW grip comfort and all that jazz, besides the desert eagle most pistols are workable in the grip area. First and foremost, it has to be reliable and good quality. Is your life worth just $400? Take out a small loan and get something better!

Also think about taking a class with it. Most people (at the ranges I go to anyway, but for years now) cannot shoot that well, and poor shooting with a handgun is not a good way to defend yourself. Holding a controled explosion in your hands to launch projectiles is NOT natural. It must be practiced!

I do not recommend revolvers. Because my sister is also a small female college student.

She can barely pull the trigger on my ruger sp101 in DA, certainly not with ANY kind of accuracy. This is a girl that can deadlift at least 150% her weight!

Semi autos are far easier to shoot under stress.

Learn situational awareness also. Your head needs to be on a swivel and scan your surroundings everywhere that you go. Not like a paranoid tweeker, but almost like an alert guard dog. Scan especially where there are few or no people within view. No use having a weapon if you are surprised and cannot deploy it.

Being aware of the threat early can save you from even drawing your weapon, by out manuvering.

I recommend glocks and M&Ps in 9mm. My sister likes the M&P's better because of their lack of finger grooves and the small interchangable backstrap.

Good luck!

Edit: Does your school allow pepper spray or tasers on campus?

 

[MP5]

She can barely pull the trigger on my ruger sp101 in DA, certainly not with ANY kind of accuracy. This is a girl that can deadlift at least 150% her weight!

That said, you can build up hand strength just like any other muscle group, and I for one would be much more comfortable, from the standpoint of helping to prevent negligent discharges, carrying a gun with a long, heavy DA trigger than, say, a Glock (as much as I love them).

 

[Old Ranger]

This isn't a new thread so I skipped some. Forgive me if I happen repeat what has been already said; but here goes - - - - -

I read back there that the best criteria is something SHE LOVES. I couldn't agree more! If it hurts; she won't shoot it. If it's too big and loud AND hurts; she won't shoot it. And you have to practice, practice, practice with the weapon you intend to use when you're scared, shaking and the Adrenalin is up. That's true for everybody.

The Human body doesn't do well with holes punched into and through vital organs - - - particularly the brain - - - and the eyes, through the Trachea or through the Carotid Arteries. It doesn't matter what caliber it is. It can be an ice pick.

My wife loves .22s. She used to shoot dump rats with a High Standard. I got her a little revolver and put a Crimson Trace grip on it. She loads it with Federal 36 gr hp rounds (they punch about 41/2 inches into wet pack, and, yes, they DO open up; no matter what 'they' say) She can punch out head and neck shots all day long; with her red dot OR her iron sight at 7 yards.

Take it as you will; but she loves her "little gun"; shoots it a lot and is steady as a rock. She has never panicked in a crisis and she's dead accurate. Oh, I almost forgot, she's practiced groin shots too.

 

[mesinge2]

Oh, I almost forgot, she's practiced groin shots too

I think all women do! Thoughts of old boy friends, Ha.

 

[Quickstrike]

That said, you can build up hand strength just like any other muscle group, and I for one would be much more comfortable, from the standpoint of helping to prevent negligent discharges, carrying a gun with a long, heavy DA trigger than, say, a Glock (as much as I love them).

Can't build hand strength quick enough for self defense NOW. I doubt the OP will start an intense grip exercise program. How many months will that take?

Even then, the DA revolver is still harder to manage under stress. Not to mention only 5-6 shots, and the recoil is MORE in any decent defense loading.

The glock without any manual safety requires a more switched on user, that is true. But training makes that a non-issue.

Or get an M&P with a thumb safety.

Unless you more worried about your own crappy gun handling causing a ND and would feel safer from yourself by picking a much inferior weapon. Depends on how bad one's gun handling is, ANY gun could be a bad idea.

Edit: I personally would not advocate carrying a .22 rimfire. Even the latest and greatest loadings in 9mm - .45 ACP etc... still does not guarantee quick stops. Shot placement is almost everything (then penetration). And with a .22, even more so! You pretty much have to put it in the eye sockets or heart.

Asking a beginner to do this while stressed is a pretty tall order.

 

[Averageman]

In this order
A restraining order, maybe even 5 minutes with a lawyer for an opinion.
A S&W Model 10 snubbie can be had for $300, you can't go wrong.
Pepper spray.
Range time with the Pistol and the Pepper Spray.
A Licence to carry.
More Range Time.
I know we should all have the pistol that "FITS" us; however there is something to be said for training a novice with a reliable platform and having them learn before they have an opinion. It has worked for decades in Police academy's and for the Military.
Once She has some experiance then show her various handguns that may fit her a bit better.

 

[Old Ranger]

You don't have to put a .22 round in an 'eye socket' to effect a kill. We used to kill hogs with a .22 shorts in the forehead all the time.

Big bullets, big guns - - - - - little guns; it doesn't matter; they're all lethal in the right hands. None of them are, in the wrong hands. What it comes down to is committment: if he has a knife and is committed, and you have a .44 mag. and you're not - - - - you're dead.

 

[Quickstrike]

You don't have to put a .22 round in an 'eye socket' to effect a kill. We used to kill hogs with a .22 shorts in the forehead all the time.

Big bullets, big guns - - - - - little guns; it doesn't matter; they're all lethal in the right hands. None of them are, in the wrong hands. What it comes down to is committment: if he has a knife and is committed, and you have a .44 mag. and you're not - - - - you're dead.

Then most people would carry 22's into harms way all the time. But they don't.

Nobody commited to staying alive would carry a .22rf.

Kinda like using a bicycle to travel the busy highways, I suppose I can be done but don't fool youself about it being good enough... Lol

 

[shockwave]

There's been some good advice in this thread, and there's been some that is questionable. But the following remarks are worth special attention:

Is your life worth just $400? Take out a small loan and get something better!

I do not recommend revolvers. Because my sister is also a small female college student.

Semi autos are far easier to shoot under stress.

I recommend glocks and M&Ps in 9mm.

To PaisanPrincess: You can purchase an excellent, reliable and powerful handgun for under $400. You'll need to shop around, and do visit a gun shop and scope out models and prices to get a feel for the range available. A lightly used gun can be a good deal.

My first handgun was a revolver and I still shoot revolvers best. They are simple. They are totally reliable. Grab - point - shoot. Loading is intuitively simple. Open, put in bullets, close.

Revolvers also shoot differently with respect to recoil. They tend to push back at you, whereas automatics tend to flip up. Revolvers point at the target the same way you just point your finger at someone. So they are easy to aim and tend to be very accurate.

Under stress, if God forbid you should actually have to use one, a revolver will not give you the kinds of opportunities for failure that automatics do. You won't have to worry about safeties, magazines, jams, etc. Grab, point, fire. If it doesn't go bang when you pull the trigger, you just pull again.

Don't pay much attention to caliber. Anything that feels comfortable to you is the winning choice. If you can get a friend or acquaintance to take you out to a range for some test shooting, or if a gun shop has some rental models, try out some revolvers from .22 to .38 and see how that goes. If you think you can handle more, try .357. Over and over, we discover that small women often shoot big guns just fine.

Also, if a stalker is harassing you, pointing a big, mean-looking shiny revolver at him will usually make him go away. Some little square black automatic thingie has poor intimidation value and he may not even realize you have a gun. Point a revolver at him, he'll find something else to do. Be armed, and be safe.

 

[ATBackPackin]

Right now CDNN has a ported Taurus 85 for $320 NIB. Definitely take a course and get a permit if you intend to carry.

A few extra dollars now will save you a whole lot later.

Shawn

 

[Manco]

She loads it with Federal 36 gr hp rounds (they punch about 41/2 inches into wet pack, and, yes, they DO open up; no matter what 'they' say)

They may not open up in flesh, though. But that wouldn't necessary be a bad thing because then they may get adequate penetration.

Oh, I almost forgot, she's practiced groin shots too.

I think all women do! Thoughts of old boy friends, Ha.

Or future old boyfriends.

Edit: I personally would not advocate carrying a .22 rimfire. Even the latest and greatest loadings in 9mm - .45 ACP etc... still does not guarantee quick stops. Shot placement is almost everything (then penetration).

Shot placement improves with lots of aimed shots fired quickly, and not every novice can do this with a 9mm or even .38 Special handgun.

And with a .22, even more so! You pretty much have to put it in the eye sockets or heart.

If you use a load with adequate penetration, and they do exist, then .22 LR will work with pretty much the same shot placement as the larger calibers. The latter will give you a statistical edge in requiring slightly less precision, as well as some additional margin in penetrating hard structures such as bone, no doubt, but .22 LR is still quite lethal.

Asking a beginner to do this while stressed is a pretty tall order.

Asking a rank beginner to place more than one shot accurately (without a large pause to recompose oneself) with a service-class caliber is a pretty tall order, too.

In this order
A restraining order, maybe even 5 minutes with a lawyer for an opinion.

How could a piece of paper defend against a potential physical attack?

Then most people would carry 22's into harms way all the time. But they don't.

I wonder if that's because people keep searching for the elusive "stopping power" that I keep hearing about but nobody ever seems to find in a handgun. The end result is experienced, skilled shooters sensibly using the most powerful caliber they're comfortable with, and I imagine a number of less experienced and skilled shooters using too much gun for their own good.

Nobody commited to staying alive would carry a .22rf.

.22 has killed plenty of people.

Kinda like using a bicycle to travel the busy highways, I suppose I can be done but don't fool youself about it being good enough... Lol

Your analogy is more appropriate for a BB gun. Using a .22 is more like driving on a busy highway in a small car that has a maximum speed of 65 MPH. While it's a somewhat shaky proposition with marginal performance and safety characteristics, it can get the job done a majority of the time.

I view firearm calibers as a continuum of performance, which is why I'm always arguing with people who think that there is no difference between some calibers and their myriad loads on the one hand, and that some calibers are essentially ineffective on the other. I think that they're all effective and that there are differences in performance between them, albeit small in the common cases.

Don't pay much attention to caliber. Anything that feels comfortable to you is the winning choice. If you can get a friend or acquaintance to take you out to a range for some test shooting, or if a gun shop has some rental models, try out some revolvers from .22 to .38 and see how that goes. If you think you can handle more, try .357.

Go with the largest caliber that you can aim and shoot the fastest with sufficient accuracy. In my opinion, being able to handle a larger caliber only in slow-fire doesn't cut it because stopping power is a myth (unless you hit something extremely vital), and more rounds on the target is equivalent to better shot placement.

Over and over, we discover that small women often shoot big guns just fine.

While big, heavy guns are a bit harder to wield, they are generally easier and faster to shoot, as well as somewhat more effective in the longer barrel lengths. Carrying them might be more of an issue, but if they're going to be carried in a purse anyway, for example, then one could simply carry a sufficiently large purse.

 

[Old Ranger]

Repeat, follow up shots are extremely important in any situation where you had to point a firearm at some attacker - - - two OR four legged. My wife can put most or all of a complete load within a 3 inch circle in two to five seconds from 20 feet. Federals, Velocitors, Stingers - - - it doesn't matter.

Nobody in combat or anywhere else is going to shoot just once. One Shot Stop doesn't practically apply. The bigger the weapon, the more difficult it is to make precise second or third shots. So the weapon you can get repeat on target hits with - - - is the one you should have with.

I don't carry all of the time - - - only if there could be a possible need. I'd rather have and not need than need and not have - - - and at one of those times, the best gun you own is the one you have with you.

 

[augustino]

Best first gun choice...

Go to the local firing range that rents pistols. Unless you live in Tim-Buk-Toooo I'm certain there's one within 30 minutes driving distance.
Check out what they have available you may want to do some research over the phone before jumping into the car.
Fire numerous pistols both autos and revolvers.
Off the top of my head I would recommend a 38+P special revolver and a Glock model 19 9MM both be test fired. Be sure you load & reload to see how you like this aspect of each. There are many differences between an auto and a revolver so take your time. And don't be shy about asking questions. Most guys like assisting someone especially a lady with decisions like these. And if you are fortunate enough to find a range with female employees, that much better!
But regardless be sure to explore and spend a few bucks doing so.
AND perhaps most important is if you have someone that already is an enthusiast be sure to ask them for their opinion. They will probably take you to the rane and maybe if they own several firearms you'll be able to test fire theirs to help make a solid decision.
Best of luck and once you buy one practice, practice and practice more.

 

[e2cTrainer]

RUGER LCR or RUGER LCP

http://www.ruger.com/products/lcr/index.html

 

[Quickstrike]

If you use a load with adequate penetration, and they do exist, then .22 LR will work with pretty much the same shot placement as the larger calibers. The latter will give you a statistical edge in requiring slightly less precision, as well as some additional margin in penetrating hard structures such as bone, no doubt, but .22 LR is still quite lethal.

That edge is significant. Anybody got pics of .22 in gel? I doubt a .22 rimfire only requires slightly less precision to bleed out an attacker than a quality hollowpoint 9mm and up.

Asking a rank beginner to place more than one shot accurately (without a large pause to recompose oneself) with a service-class caliber is a pretty tall order, too.

That is why I recommended taking some classes. So she can use a decent cal. pistol with acceptable accuracy.

.22 has killed plenty of people.

Yes, mostly in accidents and assassinations. Not really my idea of a two sided life or death conflict.

Fighting to stay alive shouldn't be expected to be easy, one is better served with something bigger than a plinking round for squirrels and small birds.

Your analogy is more appropriate for a BB gun. Using a .22 is more like driving on a busy highway in a small car that has a maximum speed of 65 MPH. While it's a somewhat shaky proposition with marginal performance and safety characteristics, it can get the job done a majority of the time.

Nah, more like a moped.

 

[MP5]

No offense, and I don't mean to send the thread veering further away from the original topic, but I have to ask: I've seen countless arguments on the Internet about which caliber is better for self-defense, with most arguments boiling down to "I think" or "I feel". Anyone have any hard, scientific statistical data on the subject?

 

[Manco]

That edge is significant. Anybody got pics of .22 in gel?

Ballistic gel tells us some things, but it is not equivalent to a human body. For one thing, I doubt that the temporary cavity means much in a real shooting involving handguns and people.

I doubt a .22 rimfire only requires slightly less precision to bleed out an attacker than a quality hollowpoint 9mm and up.

.22 LR may indeed take longer to make a determined assailant bleed out during a shootout, but that's not a common scenario, relatively speaking. Affecting a stop typically involves psychological factors--for which having a gun is the most important aspect--as well as shot placement in the physical sense. While a 9mm hollow-point is a much larger projectile than an unexpanded .22 bullet when compared directly, they are both still small in comparison to the human body, so the 9mm bullet only offers a slight increase in the odds of disrupting the target's vitals, in addition to a greater margin in the odds of penetrating bone, including the skull, although .22 LR usually does fine on head shots.

That is why I recommended taking some classes. So she can use a decent cal. pistol with acceptable accuracy.

If somebody can shoot a larger, more powerful caliber than .22 LR well enough (and by this I mean shooting fast, not just accurately--you need both), then by all means they should--the high stakes involved can easily justify this. Heck, I use .40 S&W for defensive purposes because of the miniscule edge it may have over 9mm, just because I can and feel like it. But if somebody can't--and that would be most beginners I've seen--then they should use whatever caliber allows them to place the most shots on target, which in my opinion can improve one's chances more than the edge that one caliber may have over another per round (more shot placement is pretty much equivalent to better shot placement).

Yes, mostly in accidents and assassinations. Not really my idea of a two sided life or death conflict.

With the right loads in the right handguns, a .22 LR bullet can penetrate just as deeply as a typical 9mm JHP (granted, it is more likely to deflect off bone after penetrating some distance, but then again all bullets tend to do unpredictable things in real shootings). While being smaller results in a slight disadvantage in the probability of nicking vital structures, if you can get sufficient penetration then you have an effective round. Take a look at these test results from a short-barreled pistol, no less:

http://www.brassfetcher.com/WaltherP22test.html

Note that the penetration of the calibration BB is within the accepted industry standard.

Fighting to stay alive shouldn't be expected to be easy, one is better served with something bigger than a plinking round for squirrels and small birds.

Bigger is better, all else being equal, but my point is that all else is not necessarily equal, namely the shooter. Besides, some consider .223 Remington/5.56x45mm out of a 20" bbl rifle nothing more than a varmint caliber, yet it is far more powerful than any service pistol. It's all relative, and I consider terminal ballistics a continuum in which .22 LR can get respectable penetration, and is therefore a respectable caliber (relative to other pistol calibers). Additionally, because it can help some shooters, particularly beginners, get more and/or better shot placement, it has advantages that go beyond what can be measured in gelatin. That it is unfairly disrespected and underestimated by the community of gun enthusiasts should not reflect poorly on the caliber itself.

If what I'm saying here seems controversial, it shouldn't be, given the move away from the old "bring enough gun" mentality (at least regarding handguns) and the outdated belief in handgun "stopping power." Lately I've been calling more attention to the skill of firing multiple accurate shots in quick succession--the obvious and very important element of shootings that is so often ignored in forum discussions--and now I've combined it with the natural progression of our understanding of handgun wounding, which emphasizes shot placement and penetration over old notions like "dumping energy."

.22 LR gives some people better overall shot placement and more shots placed accurately within a given period of time, which is good, and with the right loads offers what is considered by most to be good penetration. This covers the two most important aspects of handgun wounding. Having a larger projectile would be an advantage in and of itself, but it comes with tradeoffs and is therefore not necessarily an advantage overall for everybody. Unless a beginner who is forced to defend herself or himself right away is very strong and/or has exceptional natural skill, I'd feel more confident in their ability to handle a medium-frame 10-shot .22 LR revolver, for example, than a small-frame 5-shot .38 Special revolver (often an extremely lightweight model) that many would recommend. And the cool thing is that a .22 LR handgun will virtually always be useful later on, even when the shooter has moved on to larger calibers for defensive purposes.

Nah, more like a moped.

OK, but with decent penetration in the gel tests I linked above, make it a moped with highway speed and great range (i.e. high capacity in my other example, namely a Smith & Wesson 617)--sure, it's marginal and risky, but most of the time you'll survive and get to your destination. And also in analogy, some people can't drive anything larger just yet.

No offense, and I don't mean to send the thread veering further away from the original topic, but I have to ask: I've seen countless arguments on the Internet about which caliber is better for self-defense, with most arguments boiling down to "I think" or "I feel". Anyone have any hard, scientific statistical data on the subject?

Even "scientific statistical data" is disputed, and for good reason, based on what I've seen. Unfortunately, all we really can do is guess at things, using as much reasoning as possible, and let people decide for themselves what is best for them (i.e. what they're most comfortable with in every way).

By the way, I apologize for participating in what seems to be yet another tiresome caliber war hijacking a thread, but my real point is that beginners--particularly those who may need to defend themselves NOW--should try to find out what caliber they can handle without being overwhelmed by recoil and other effects. Real defensive shootings aren't much like typical range sessions, in which many people close one eye, take forever to aim, and slowly squeeeeeeze the trigger--they're more like "HOLY CRAP! BLAM-BLAM-BLAM!!! What just happened?!" Well, every shooting is different, but they all happen very fast and should have more than a single BLAM aimed toward the bad guy (or BANG or POP--whatever ).

 

[EugeneInNC]

I STRONGLEY suggest post number 22. Best of luck to you. Be safe. Shoot often. Have fun.

 

[Quickstrike]

...

I'll maybe start to reconsider when anyone credible carries a .22rf. Even for back up.

P.S. The 9mm does not recoil that much in a glock19.

Sorry for hi-jackin' the thread folks, I'm done.

 

[Teppo Oni]

how small and how powerful? revolver or automatic im guessing 9mm .38spc .380
some women dont have the hand strenght to work the slide on a auto
my wife can work my full and compact glocks but not the sub compact
for a carry gun keep it under 25ozs empty and not to large
do you have a carry permit? what state are you in? not cali i hope
look in a large gun shop and handle them first
LCP or P3AT in .380 $260-$300 both very light and small easy to carry
glock 19 9mm or the 26 with grip ext $400 i paid for my last glock new
the m&p9 compact is nice too but a lil heavier the XDc9 is too heavy
used j-frame .38
keltec pf9 or p11 $250
kahr cw9 $405
my wife hates revolvers long heavy triggers
5,2 100lbs tiny hands
she likes my 9mm glocks not the .40s and single stacked 1911s
get a fanny pack dont purse carry
budsgunshop online to get an idea on prices
.380 ammo is hard to find today

 

[tekarra]

Princess,

First off, my I suggest you go to www.corneredcat.com and do some reading. This is a forum written by women, for women, and self confident men. There is a lot of good information there and just not on firearms. As for a pistol, go to a gun show and pick up as many as you want and note the ones which feel good. Next go to a range that rents pistols so you can shoot a few different ones. Finally, get some good instruction

If you are being stalked contact the police as if it comes to a confrontation, you will be in good stead legally.

Best of luck and I hope it works out for you.

 

[MolleMan]

My wife is 19 and i bought her a charter arms pink lady (her choice) .38 spl and she loves it. shes recoil sesitive and she didn't have a problem with it. it has big soft rubber grips, bold iron sights and was accurate at 15-20 yrds, for the exception of being pink lol i enjoyed shooting it myself. its also very lite if u ever decided to use it for carry.

 

[Manco]

I'll maybe start to reconsider when anyone credible carries a .22rf. Even for back up.

This is moot because virtually anybody who has credibility would be able to shoot a larger caliber well enough. Also, those who have credibility are usually motivated to maintain their credibility, which means avoiding controversy and extremes most of the time, while those who have no credibility, like me, are free to describe any truths that their sense of reason can deduce, no matter how controversial. The logic that I've used is exceedingly simple and straightforward, and I provided credible test data to back up my claims. The only questionable aspects are the assumptions I used that are based on our collective and cumulative understanding of handgun wounding.

P.S. The 9mm does not recoil that much in a glock19.

While I can barely feel the difference between the recoil of 9mm and .40 S&W in similar handguns myself, many would say that the difference is large and has a significant effect on their ability to quickly and accurately place followup shots. In my opinion, the difference between .22 LR and 9mm is much greater in this respect, and I bet that many beginners could shoot the former significantly better than they could the latter, as a result.

Sorry for hi-jackin' the thread folks, I'm done.

I think this topic is relevant for beginners who may need to defend themselves right away, before they can put in enough training and practice to become as proficient with larger calibers.

 

[Jframe.38]

I think that you need a robust non-lethal option, since you can't take your firearm to University lawfully. I think that your firearms should be concealable, easy to carry, heavy enough to shoot comfortably.

I think that if you do not have the hand strength for a semiauto than a 2.25 inch barrel ruger sp 101 is ideal.

If you can handle racking the slide of a semiauto a glock 26 is outstanding.

I think that you should consider a robust non lethal self defense option that is legal for 24/7 carry such as a taser or taser safe pepper spray. I recommend both fox labs pepper spray in key chain and 2oz container size. The fox labs spary is cheap (under $25) yet extremely effective. The taser C2 might be the best option but it is about $275 and is extremely robust.

I hope that you also practice and get a concealed carry license.

Best of luck and stay safe.