Good plastic pistol for my old man?

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Cheeseybacon

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My dad has been a long time hunter and has a number of rifles, but recently he has taken an interest in obtaining a handgun primarally for Home Defense, but also for occasional carry use in the rare occasion that he has to go into a high crime area. The only handgun he currently has is an ancient Ruger Super Single Six that he recognizes isn't appropriate for either HD or carry.

So the other day he throws a Kimber Catalog on my lap and says "hey boy, check out that 40 cal in there. is that any good?" My dad is semi-auto illiterate (and arguably out of the loop with all handguns in general) and I figured he was talking about some miniaturized 1911 that had been cambered in .40 S&W, but he was actually talking about the Kimber KPD. What the heck is with this gun? Why haven't I heard about it yet? Is it any good? Anyone have any experience with it? The built-in lock/key system looked pretty neat. What was even more surprising was the fact that he was even considering a plasticy autoloader. My dad has traditionally been uber paraniod about the reliability of autoloaders, and had been eyeballing a snubby S&W model 60 before he got this catalog.

I told him that if he was considering a plasticy semiauto like the KPD that he should also take a good long look at Glocks, Springfield XD, S&W M&P, etc. With that being said, how does the KPD stand up to the previously mentioned plasticy pistols? He's extremely concerned with reliability and I think he's also attracted to the Kimber because of the fact that it can be locked without the need for a separate external trigger lock.

Pistols are one area of firearms that my dad is sorta sketchy on and he's sorta asked me to guide him in the right general direction. On paper the KPD looks excellent, but the fact that I've never heard of it or see it posted about before now made me hesitate to make a definative comment on it. What about you folks? Would you recommend a KPD to your old man?
 
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Your first advice was good, check out the M&P, Glock and XD as well as the KPD. I haven't had a chance to try a KPD yet but whichever fits his hand best is probably the right choice. I went with an XD a few weeks ago because it fits and points well for me, others may prefer one of the others because of how they work for them. I also liked the addition of the grip safety.

I haven't heard anything bad about the KPD, but I don't think they are widely distributed yet. I'm not a fan of 8-9 pound trigger pulls as they advertise, but people used to DAO don't mind them.
 
Dont forget HK

I don't mean to whack the hornet's nest here, but the USP line is great. I love my USP45. There are some HK haters out there, but most of them complain about price. If your dad is an old timer like mine he probably wants a manual safety, which is not available on any of the other pistols that you mentioned. Some will say that HK's are too bulky to carry. While I will agree that they are not the slimmest handguns in the world, if you break out a ruler, they is no real difference between the USP and a Glock or XD. I really feel that you can’t go wrong with an HK. If a manual safety is not an issue, then maybe a Glock would be the way to go, but HK also has the LEM trigger which is a partial DAO, like the Glock.
What it comes down to is what feels best to him and what he shoots the best, but don’t forget about the HK’s.
 
I to know nothing about that particular kimber. But since you said his main concern is reliability, maybe you should point out to him the various tests that both XD's and Glocks have been run through, both very impressive. And also if he gets an XD40 subcompact, he can get the extended mag to make it feel just like a fullsized pistol when he's not carrying it. Its like getting two guns in one.
 
any chance to take him to a well-equipped shop or gun show, and let him decide what fits his hand and appeals to his eye?
 
Plastic gun, home defense, occasional carry into the city...

HK P2000 or USP.

Really, you can't go wrong with any of the recommended guns. Glocks, XD, M&P (really sweet actually), or Walther P99. Have him handle a few. There are a lot of great options, and each platform has their own distinct selling points.

Good luck.
 
I'd recommend he consider one of the S&W lightweight J frame snubbies, and stoke it with 158 grain LSWHP ammo. It is a VERY formidable weapon in the hands of a wheelgunner.

Your dad is an auto neophyte and doesn't shoot enough to either familiarize himself with "tap-rack-bang" drills to clear jams . . . or shoot enough to thoroughly break in a new auto for reliability.

There's really nothing ancient or obsolete about a fine revolver. Ounce for ounce they can pack a more powerful round and they are rock-solid as far as ultra-reliability goes.

At 55 years old, I'm an old fart too. Currently my Kimber Ultra CDP 1911 is on my hip as my CCW gun but I feel quite comfortable in every way toting a wheelgun. As a matter of fact, if the SHTF one day, I'll grab my 25-2 S&W chopped barrel snubbie "N-frame" revolver, in .45ACP.

I'm no Jerry Mickulek with it . . . but still fast enough to have smoked over 30 competitors once in a special match at an IDPA match. The match set up:

One manditory reload,
EIGHTEEN widely spaced steel targets ranging from 10-25 yards out,
Guns begin unloaded, in a latched gun box.

Most in that match went to their Glock 17s with 33-round mags, knowing they could burn seventeen targets fast, do a quick reload and drop the last one. Others used their 1911s with 10 round mags.

Me? I depended on my ultra-fast reload times with my .45ACP moonclipped ammo, and understood that I can shoot my S&W revolvers faster double action than my tricked out Colt full size competition 1911.

Yes, I'd have to AT LEAST do two reloads . . . IF I missed NO targets. However, I also knew I rarely missed at speed with this gun. Left handers can reload a moon clipped revolver ultra fast too, so I knew I could fly. Also, I had NOTHING to lose by making myself the supposed "underdog."

Bottom line, I DIDN'T miss and I shot a really fast course of fire two with fast smooth reloads . . . and none could beat my time with their 1911s or their Glocks. Two G17 shooters went too fast trying . . . and ran through THREE 33-round mags without clearing the course.

Ancient revolvers and old shooters? Beware of old farts toting wheelguns . . . they might just know how to use 'em!

Lots of the younger shooters never took the time to master the smooth but deadly accurate double action revolver pull. The cool thing is that when the revolver finally goes "bang," you are still on target! Using single action autos like the 1911 types, many folk "milk" the gun in competition (unconsciously yanking the gun low, trying to counteract the expected recoil BEFORE the round goes off). This doesn't happen with a smooth, double action revolver pull.
 
First of all he is not your "old man". He is your Father/Dad. Take him to a range that has rental guns and let him shoot several.
 
I have more rounds through my Glocks than I would even care to guess at (I have a new barrel on the way for the 21 just to give you an idea). All of them have been 100% reliable, and I would trust my life to any of them. For CCW I would go with the G30. I carried one for quite some time when I still lived in a CCW friendly state. Your dad (if he is the old timer you make him out to be) will like the idea of the good old .45acp round, and get a rock solid reliable gun at the same time. I dont know if money is an issue to you but Hk while nice is quite pricey compared to many other reliable guns on the market.
 
That's for the suggestions guys, keep them coming.

I've talked with him some more and .45 ACP is definately out. He has done a little bit of shooting with my 1911 and doesn't really care for the recoil. The more I think about it, a 9mm would probably serve him better since he has tennis elbow (I know there's a more scientific medical term for it) and a number of other arm-related ailments that are slowly creeping in. Unforuntately, but he's really stuck on .40 S&W. He falls into the crowd of people who think that 9mm is super weak and completely inadequate in every respect. I've tried to explain to him that the performance of 9mm is determined largely by the type of ammo used, but he still thinks that .40 is the way to go from the standpoint of a balance of rocoil/stopping power. While I don't doubt stopping power of .40, wouldn't a .40 in a light polymer gun be likely to have nearly as much if not MORE recoil than a .45 ACP in a heavy steel gun?

I tried to show him some Glocks, but he's a patriotic old fart and wants something American and seems to have an interest in the XD series. Any other American guns that come to mind for comparison?

I really wish I could take him to a range that rents out guns so he could try before he buys, but unfortunately I don't believe there are any in my area. :banghead: There's a gun show coming up soon though that we're going to, so I suppose he can at least hold a few and see how they feel.
 
45acp recoil is much more manageable than 40s&w. More of a slow push than a sharp slap. The S&W MP45 should be out soon. Might want to wait and see.
 
I agree with hkusp, the 45 ACP is much more manageable to me. Definetly a heavy push, but slow and controllable. The 9mm is quick and a bit snappy, but lighter. The 40 S&W and quick, snappy, and heavy in recoil. If he's got tendonitis (inflamed tendons, aka tennis elbow) then 9mm if he'll try it, or 45 ACP would be my choices over the 40 S&W.
I tried to show him some Glocks, but he's a patriotic old fart and wants something American and seems to have an interest in the XD series. Any other American guns that come to mind for comparison?
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Perhaps it's best not to tell him that XD is imported by Springfield, but made by HS in Croatia. All of the Springfield 1911 frames & slides, and many entire guns are made by Imbel in Brazil. If he wants to be patriotic he could get an FN FNP in 9mm, 40 S&W or (soon) 45 ACP. Yes FN is a Belgian company, but they supply the majority of the small arms that US forces use, and the FNP pistols are made in the US. SIGs are alo now made in the US, as are many (all?) Berettas. S&W or Ruger look to be your last hopes for US owned, US made service pistols, outside of some of the companies making 1911s.
 
Springfield is a name only. Most of their stuff is foreign made. You could get him a Browning Pro-9, the "Browning" version of the FN FNP, but Browning is owned by FN Herstal now. You could wait a bit and get the Beretta PX4 Compact that is coming out. It should be made in Maryland, though it is more of a rehash of the Beretta 9000. It is not even the same design as the PX4 full size. Should be concealable, though.
 
If you recommend a Glock, just make sure it points ok for him. Have him find a spot on the wall he'd like to point the barrel at, then close his eyes, bring the Glock up to where he thinks it is pointing at the target, then open his eyes up and see where it is actually pointing. With a 1911, CZ and Walther P99, I always point at the target. With a Glock, I point at the ceiling.

I haven't tried an XD, but I love Springfield Armory, so if I were going plastic, that's what I would try first. My friend has an HK and it is a great shooter as well.
 
Yeah, springfields xd's are croatian:) Hopefully he'll relent, because that would open him up to a whole series of good guns, like EAA Witness Elites, CZ75's, and Glocks. Though i think some of these might be made in the US if that influences hi opinion at all.
 
Oh man, any consideration of the XD is gonna go straight down the tubes if he finds out it isn't truly American, no matter how good the gun might be. I think I'm "forget" to mention that XDs are made in Croatia. I hope "Made in Croatia" isn't boldly and obviously stamped on the side of the gun.
 
Hi Cheesybacon.

After doing a little research on the Kimber it looks like a pretty good gun. I am not experienced on the reliability of the gun however. I would be a little reluctant with the 8-9 pound trigger pull. My favorite for home defense is the Springfield XD .45 acp Tactical. [by the way it says Springfield Armory U.S.A on the slide in Big Print and on the plastic frame it does say made in Croatia in very small letters] Tell Dad that's ok it is an extremely reliable gun.Never had a hiccup and I have two of them. If you want to stick with the .40 I would put put my two Taurus 24/7 Pro's up against the Kimber any time. They are very reliable have two 15 shot mags, polished feed ramp, double recoil spring, and an excellent grip.They have never had a hiccup either. I got those for 375 for one and 400 for the other. Fantastic guns at any price. Take Care!

http://www.taurususa.com/video/taurus-corporate-video.cfm

http://www.taurususa.com/products/product-details.cfm?id=106&category=Pistol

http://www.springfield-armory.com/prod-xdpstl-45acp.shtml

The Best to you and Yours!

Frank
 
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