cali_blues
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Powder Valley has 8# of HP38 right now.
edit, sorry just saw the post above
edit, sorry just saw the post above
Goodbye W231/HP38?
- Thread starter judgedelta
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Average Joe
Member
During the powder shortage, I switched over to Unique, Power Pistol, and Red Dot, didn't notice much difference between any of them.
wankerjake
Member
Like fun it is. Sold out now.
I would start watching other vender sites, as Hodgdon spreads out their batches to 40 or so distributors around the same time. So I'm certain it will show up in different places.
wankerjake
Member
That's the plan
evan price
Member
Letter from Hodgdon Powder regarding unavailability of WIN-231
The St. Mark's powder plant in Florida (owned by General Dynamics) is iirc the source for ball powders. They make powder, then companies like Hodgdon package and distribute it. This letter is from Hodgdon explaining why Win-231 and Hodgdon HP-38 has been scarce on the ground especially compared to Titegroup which seems to be easier to get.
The St. Mark's powder plant in Florida (owned by General Dynamics) is iirc the source for ball powders. They make powder, then companies like Hodgdon package and distribute it. This letter is from Hodgdon explaining why Win-231 and Hodgdon HP-38 has been scarce on the ground especially compared to Titegroup which seems to be easier to get.
LiveLife
Member
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=786053
As a longtime W231/HP-38 user, it will sadden me to see it go. W231 was the foundation of my USPSA match shooting for 45ACP/9mm/40S&W and one of few powders that tamed the snappy recoil of 40S&W (at least at target velocities).
I do hope Hodgdon/Winchester decide to replace W231/HP-38 with another powder but if they don't, I will keep using Red Dot/Promo/BE-86 for my range practice/plinking/match loads.
Good bye old friend < sniff sniff >
gonoles_1980
Member
Someone here pointed me to some W231, very nice of them. The price was $34 a point, add in shipping and it is too much considering I can get Bullseye from Bass Proshop for $27 a lb and no shipping cost. Whether or not they make it anymore, for me they don't. I have moved on, primarily using Titegroup, Bullseye, Unique and BE-86.
DIV03
Member
Still have 6 pounds of Win-231, switched over to BE-86 and love it.
rodinal220
Member
Just saw this thread. I really hope this isn't true. I have been using 231/HP38 for over thirty years.
StrutStopper
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Down to my last pound of HP-38. Got 8 pounds of BE-86, some Unique and Titegroup though.
The powder makers claim all this stuff but what new powder have they been making 2.5 times quicker and getting out to us?
I did notice that the shelves have been getting restocked with 2.5 times more shotgun/pistol powder recently, but that was 2.5 times zero which is still NOTHING[emoji22]
I did notice that the shelves have been getting restocked with 2.5 times more shotgun/pistol powder recently, but that was 2.5 times zero which is still NOTHING[emoji22]
I have been switching over to Titegroup for 9MM, but I have been shooting FMJ with it. I hear it is too hot for lead cast which I am going back to soon. I hope this isn't the case. Can anyone verify that? I guess I could use my Universal for 9MM if I have to, as I am almost out of W231.
Oldman1151
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I use Titegroup with lead and have had no problems at all. Using Missouri Bullet 115 gr LRN.
16in50calNavalRifle
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Also saddened to hear this - as for many, HP38 has been my "all caliber" handgun powder since I started reloading a few years ago.
Since the latest panic/shortage began (aren't we going on 2.5 years now? pretty amazing, esp. the 22LR aspect of it), in order to conserve my stand-by powders such as HP38, I've tried some others that became available.
The Spanish firm Maxam has been selling what they call CSB-1 in the US (word is they plan a larger market presence). It uses Universal data and I have to say that - for me - it's a complete HP38 replacement. Versatile, easy to meter. Note: I am a "low-end" recreational reloader, I reload mostly to more cheaply substitute for factory ammo for practice, plinking, informal competition, and generally load low- to mid-range loads for 9mm, 38 spl, and 45ACP.
Another alternative I'm eyeing right now is the line of powders from Explosia, the Czech powder maker (Great name!). For some time now Powder Valley has had their D032, which they describe as similar to Accurate #2, marketed under the name of Shooter's World "Clean Shot". (the Explosia data manual describes D032 as clean, which while not critical is always a nice bonus)
FYI, here's the Explosia website: http://explosia.cz/en/?show=streliviny#s3
So right there are two "new" powders to our market that look quite similar to HP38 for those seeking a versatile, all-caliber powder. I'm half-way through my CSB-1 and thinking of getting some D032 for experimentation.
Let's hope this weird, mysterious process known as "the market" continues to work and bring in new products to meet our demand. That is, that it is ALLOWED to work.
Since the latest panic/shortage began (aren't we going on 2.5 years now? pretty amazing, esp. the 22LR aspect of it), in order to conserve my stand-by powders such as HP38, I've tried some others that became available.
The Spanish firm Maxam has been selling what they call CSB-1 in the US (word is they plan a larger market presence). It uses Universal data and I have to say that - for me - it's a complete HP38 replacement. Versatile, easy to meter. Note: I am a "low-end" recreational reloader, I reload mostly to more cheaply substitute for factory ammo for practice, plinking, informal competition, and generally load low- to mid-range loads for 9mm, 38 spl, and 45ACP.
Another alternative I'm eyeing right now is the line of powders from Explosia, the Czech powder maker (Great name!). For some time now Powder Valley has had their D032, which they describe as similar to Accurate #2, marketed under the name of Shooter's World "Clean Shot". (the Explosia data manual describes D032 as clean, which while not critical is always a nice bonus)
FYI, here's the Explosia website: http://explosia.cz/en/?show=streliviny#s3
So right there are two "new" powders to our market that look quite similar to HP38 for those seeking a versatile, all-caliber powder. I'm half-way through my CSB-1 and thinking of getting some D032 for experimentation.
Let's hope this weird, mysterious process known as "the market" continues to work and bring in new products to meet our demand. That is, that it is ALLOWED to work.
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Basically, it boils down to that the profit margin is not as great with HP-38/W231 as with other, newer powders.
I'd say they will continue to produce it, as long as there is demand for it. And if/when the market catches up to the demand of other pistol/shotgun powders. But what do I know?!
Just as in the auto industry. They produce some vehicles that create little to no profit, to build brand loyalty.
Time will tell all.
I'd say they will continue to produce it, as long as there is demand for it. And if/when the market catches up to the demand of other pistol/shotgun powders. But what do I know?!
Just as in the auto industry. They produce some vehicles that create little to no profit, to build brand loyalty.
Time will tell all.
CoalTrain49
Member
Hodgdon doesn't make either of those powders so how would they know what the expense is to make it. What they probably mean is the cost to purchase and resell it.
Both of those powders are made by a subsidiary of General Dynamics in FL. I'm not sure why Hodgdon tries to convince folks that they produce powder because mostly they are just distributors. They get most of their powder from ADI and St. Marks.
Both of those powders are made by a subsidiary of General Dynamics in FL. I'm not sure why Hodgdon tries to convince folks that they produce powder because mostly they are just distributors. They get most of their powder from ADI and St. Marks.
ljnowell
Member
The powder is made specifically for them, and the cost is accordingly passed on directly to them.
I think most everyone knows that hodgdon isn't manufacturing the powder in house.
Rare find
I was shocked to see 6 one pound cans of HP-38 on the shelf of a little gun shop in central Illinois over the weekend. Bought 2 of them and left some for others who may be in worse shape than me. About $22 per pound, so they weren't holding you up on it. No Unique, Bullseye, 2400, or any of the shotgun powders, which makes the HP-38 find even more unusual. Guess it is just the luck of the draw. I sure look forward to the day when you can go in and have to decide what to buy instead of buying what is in stock.
I was shocked to see 6 one pound cans of HP-38 on the shelf of a little gun shop in central Illinois over the weekend. Bought 2 of them and left some for others who may be in worse shape than me. About $22 per pound, so they weren't holding you up on it. No Unique, Bullseye, 2400, or any of the shotgun powders, which makes the HP-38 find even more unusual. Guess it is just the luck of the draw. I sure look forward to the day when you can go in and have to decide what to buy instead of buying what is in stock.
"They" was meant in a generic form.
By contract, and not in deed, Hodgdon has some claim to the plants in St. Mark and Australia. As do others, I'm sure.
I don't recall of Hodgdon claiming ownership of these.
All I was trying to convey was this. If and when the shelves are stocked with Titegroup, the Clays, Autocomps, HS-6, etc., and if the demand is still there for HP_38/W231. And it keeps their lights on and covers their bills, I can't see why they wouldn't still produce it.
But that is just thinking at my level, and not at the corporate level. Contracts, politics, and all.
By contract, and not in deed, Hodgdon has some claim to the plants in St. Mark and Australia. As do others, I'm sure.
I don't recall of Hodgdon claiming ownership of these.
All I was trying to convey was this. If and when the shelves are stocked with Titegroup, the Clays, Autocomps, HS-6, etc., and if the demand is still there for HP_38/W231. And it keeps their lights on and covers their bills, I can't see why they wouldn't still produce it.
But that is just thinking at my level, and not at the corporate level. Contracts, politics, and all.
ljnowell
Member
"They" was meant in a generic form.
By contract, and not in deed, Hodgdon has some claim to the plants in St. Mark and Australia. As do others, I'm sure.
I don't recall of Hodgdon claiming ownership of these.
All I was trying to convey was this. If and when the shelves are stocked with Titegroup, the Clays, Autocomps, HS-6, etc., and if the demand is still there for HP_38/W231. And it keeps their lights on and covers their bills, I can't see why they wouldn't still produce it.
But that is just thinking at my level, and not at the corporate level. Contracts, politics, and all.
I'm afraid common sense doesn't allows play into corporate decision making.
oneounceload
member
That's about $7/lb too much to begin with
And the IMR plant (also owned by GD) in Canada. Universal Clays is now being made in Canada - the new MSRP will have e looking for better stuff from Alliant when my stash runs out. Universal works great on 20 & 28 gauge, as well as ALL of my pistols from 32 SWL to 45
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