Got Kel-Tec or Kahr experience?

[CoRoMo]

Got interested in a subcompact 9mm for conceal carry and figure the Kel-Tec PF9 or the Kahr PM9 should be just right. I like their overall dimensions most of all. I hear they are DAO, no SA? I hear their triggers are not wonderful either. Is this right? Anyone know of a tiny SA 9mm? Open to suggestions and thanks!

 

[CajunBass]

I had a Kel-Tec P-11 and I really liked it. It jammed a couple of times with some "range reloads" but with factory ammo, it ran like a watch. Great little gun to carry. After a couple hundred rounds the trigger slicked up quite a bit. It was still long, but smooth. It wasn't a gun to shoot at long range, but it wasn't made for that. It was "minute of bad guy" at the ranges it was intended for. The only reason I don't still have it, is I saw something I wanted more (Smith and Wesson 39-2) and traded it off.

 

[Claude Clay]

much like Cajun.......p-11 except i upped to a sig 239 in 40 for primary carry. P11 can be 'finicky' & goes back to the factory every 2-3 yrs. not much , if any of it is original, Kel-tec treats you very well & very fast turn a round times. Sig is ACCURATE, P11 is battle accurate. 11 of 9mm & light vrs 9 of 40 & a mite heavier~~life is 1
v e r y long string of choices. good luck

 

[comeandtakeit]

I'd say go Kel Tec at least you get what you pay for. A moderatly priced auto that works well and will last awhile. Polymer Kahrs are over priced and over rated. Plus you never know what your gonna get.

 

[DAdams]

Sites

You may want to use the "search" function for "Kahr" and "KTec".
Both these have been discussed quite throughly.
I only bring this up not to shut down your question, but with some research I think you will get much more detailed information than you might in total from this thread, although what you do get will be good stuff.
Also check out KTOG, and the KTec portion of the BERSA site both are heavy with KTec information.
The Glock Talk forum has subsections on various handguns. One is the Kahr "club" or thread. It has more information than you can shake a stick at.
I suspect KT also.

I have a PM9. I have had some issues but Kahr took care of them and I like the form factor so I'm sticking with it. I find the trigger to be very nice. Smooth not too heave and a bit long as many DAO are.

Hope this helps.

 

[Muddflap]

I have a PM9 that has been perfect through about 600 rounds. I think it has a decent trigger, and it is very accurate at 7 yards. It is a little thicker than the Kel-Tecs. I have a Mika pocket holster for it, and pocket carry is not too bad. Most of the time it's in a Crossbreed Super Tuck. If you do a little research, will find a lot of people that have good luck with the Kahrs. They did have some barrel peening issues, but I think they have all been resolved.
The only thing I know of, in 9mm, that is smaller than the Kel-Tec will cost you about $1000.00, and it won't be SA either.
I feel like the Kahr is a quality firearm, and I am very happy with mine. One problem with the internet, is that 500 people will read about 1 persons problem, and all of a sudden you have 500 people that knew someone that had a , fill in the brand, and it was a piece of junk. You need to get the one that feels good to you, and you shoot good. You're the one that will have to live with it.

Good luck

 

[markmc753]

I really like my PF9.. I've put about 500rds of various ammo through it now.. flawless.. My biggest problem with Kahr is their well know, organic/economic connection to the Unification Church (The Moonies). I

 

[bhk]

I have a Kahr PM40, a Keltec .380, and a SW 642 - all for pocket carry. My favorite for carry, by far, is the Kahr. It is totally reliable, more compact than the 642, carries more rounds than the other two, and significantly more powerful than the others. Don't get me wrong, I like the other two but the kahr suits me best on most days.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

Just with the Kahr. I've had an E9 (a now discontinued "economy" version of the K9) since 1999 and a PM9 since early 2006. I have other guns that fit the E9's "niche" a little better, hence don't use it much, but I've never had serious trouble with it. The little PM9 is actually my most carried handgun, or what some call an "always" gun. It did have to be sent back for repair, but was fixed the first time and has not given me any trouble since. With one exception* I find it more comfortable, pleasant and accurate to shoot than any snubnose revolver I've tried. It also holds two more rounds of an at least equal or superior cartridge, too.

The Kahr trigger pull is not "bad" - in fact I think it is very good - but it is a little different. It has a long stroke like a DA revolver, but with a much lighter pull weight (c. 6-7 lbs.) and no "roll" - in other words it is smooth and even throughout the stroke without a discernible "break" at the end. There is no roughness or grittiness. After a little getting used to it you can shoot it about as quickly and accurately at short range as anything else.

* I do find that my trigger finger rubs on the bottom of the guard when I insert enough of it through so as not to push my shots to the left. After about 80 rounds like this, the skin will actually get flayed off. If I just put the tip or pad of my finger on it, there is no abrasion, but my shots tend to go left, into the nine and eight rings instead of the ten or X that I prefer.

 

[MassMan]

Kel-Tec or Kahr

I have a Kahr MK9 which has been totally reliable. The trigger pull is long but very smooth. The only down side to this Kahr is that it's all steel and heavy for it's size. I carry it in a belt holster and it is easily concealable.

 

[wally]

+1 to bhk.

I duplicate his guns, experience, and preferences.

Around here the PF-9 runs about $325, wheras for about $375 you can usually find Kahr's bottom of the line CW9.

I figure my CW9 has already (about 2 years) paid for itself with the cost difference between the cheapest 9mm practice ammo and the cheapest .40S&W ammo. They also make a CW40 if you want more power.

My CW9 and Kel-Tec P3AT both had problems initially and had to go back, but each company gave good service and the guns have been fine since.

--wally.

 

[ufstuddmuffin]

i carry a kahr cw9 and i feel very comfortable with it. of approx 800 rounds through it, i have had 1 failure to load (at the same time that could have been due to the brand new magazine i had just picked up). i have also shot the pm9 multiple times, and i just like the way the cw9 feels in my hand much better. the dimensions are just slightly different between the cw9 and the pm9. take a look at it, for a smaller concealed carry its worth considering

 

[Joe Demko]

I have a PF-9 and an earlier iteration (no frankenbolt) of the P-32, both in hard chrome. I also had a P-11 which I gave to my brother. None of them are what you'd call perfect guns.
The PF9 can't handle 147 grain bullets due to having a short throat; this is even with the newer design barrel that was supposed to correct that and other problems. The magazine follower is made out of some kind of cheap polymer that is in the process of self-destructing. The magazine catch also has a reputation for failure. So, I ordered a metal follower and magazine catch from a guy at KTOG; but they weren't inexpensive and added almost $100 to the cost of the gun. That makes it somewhat less of a bargain.
The P-11 has a godzilla trigger pull and no amount of fluffling, buffing, and shooting ever made it any better than terrible. However mechanically accurate that gun may be, it always has that trigger working against it.
The P-32 had some reliability issues and I ended up having to send it back to Keltec for some of their much-praised customer service.
OTOH, the PF9 and the P-32 have pretty decent triggers for DAO guns. When fed lighter projectiles, the PF9 has functioned just fine. The P-11 always functioned well with whatever I put in it. Since its return from the factory, the P-32 has been a reliable little gun. The P-32 and the PF9 are remarkably thin, flat and concealable. There are very few guns that can compare to them in that respect, and none that are in their price range.
I give Keltec a qualified thumbs-up. Many people have problem-free Keltecs straight from the box. More than just a few do not. If you get a good one, or have Keltec fix a bad one, they are okay guns. IMO, when you spend the extra money on a higher priced brand, what you're paying for is a much better chance of getting a piece that will work (and work well) straight from the box with no fiddle-farting around or trips back to the factory.

 

[iostorm]

Kahr pm9 perfect thru close to 1k rounds.........

 

[YZR]

I have a P-3AT and my friend has a PF-9. They have both been flawless. The PF is kind of a kicker but my friend (she) has no trouble with it at the range. She replaced her SA XD9-SC with the PF as her daily carry piece due to the size and weight.

 

[buenhec]

Have both. The P3AT for when I just cant conceal and the MK9 in a CTAC holster which is very concealable. I shoot +P from my MK9, a good punch for such a small gun. It has been totaly reliable. My second choice would be a Sig Sauer 232 in .380 for around $550 new.

 

[Blarelli]

Kahr

I've had a Kahr CW40 for a while, and even during breaking in it never had a problem. It takes a while to get used to the trigger, but it is very accurate for such a small gun. At 50 feet, I can keep all 6 shots in about 3 inches of each other.

 

[jwxspoon]

I've got a Kel-Tec P3AT .380 that I carry every minute I am dressed in a wallet holster. I forget I am carrying it. I also have a P-11 9mm. Most folks don't realize Kel-Tec sells 12 round "law enforcement" mags for the P-11, so I carry 13 in the weapon.

I'm totally satisfied with both weapons.

 

[sholling]

The Kahr trigger is sooooooo horrible that Colt got sued for copying it. Well they do say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. It's actually one of the things that make it such a fine little pistol. That and the extremely rugged design. One that will still shooting long after the cheapies are little more than a box of bits and pieces. Anyway I guess I got 'lucky' because the trigger in my PM40 is buttery smooth and perfectly predictable.

BTW, I'm not disparaging the cheapies. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having a decent carry often shoot seldom weapon. The carry often shoot seldom weapon that you can afford to have with you is a whole lot more effective than the carry often shoot often weapon still sitting behind the dealer's glass because you can't afford it. I also won't disparage a fine weapon because of the faith of the father of the designer. It's not for me to judge another man's faith unless he's trying to violently shove it down my throat. I believe that the great John Moses Browning faced many of those same prejudges but his undeniable brilliance helped him rise beyond it.

 

[WC145]

I have a P3at and 2 PF-9's, used to have a P-11 also. I'm very happy with the performance of my Kel-tecs. They are accurate and reliable and reasonably priced. I would buy another Kel-tec before buying a Kahr simply because of my experience with them.
I've never shot a Kahr but from what I've read they can be as hit and miss as Kel-tecs when it comes to proper functioning.

 

[DAdams]

PM9 Update

I just wanted to update those of you who have seen my Kahr reports.

I'm happy to say that after a trip back to the factory it is now operating as it should at 100%.
I put four different brands of ammo through it Saturday including a few plus P. Both ball and JHP. This is the first time I have successfully run over a hundred rounds w/o a hitch.

The Kahr service was excellent btw.

 

[[email protected]]

I consider the Kel-Tecs and the plastic kahrs to be flawed guns. I won't buy another Kel-Tec or plastic Kahr until they do some fixing of problems that they refuse to admit exist.

OTOH, the all steel Kahrs are top notch. I am not aware of a Kel-Tec that it not plagued by reliabilty issues so i would stay away from that compnay unless reliabilty is not a prime concern. For a CCW, it sould be the most important issue.

 

[romma]

Got Kel-Tec or Kahr experience?

Got Both! Love them both!

 

[Clipper]

Well, Kriggs, let me be the first to make you aware of some Kel-Tecs without reliability issues...Honestly, if your comments are indicative of your actual experience, it simply shows you need to get out more.

My wife and I have 2 P3ATs and I have a PF-9. All are great pistols, but the PF-9 has taken over as my 'always' carry. It fits well in the front pocket of my usual cargo pants, and is so light I could forget it's there. Mine is blued, and cost $249.00. It's been without flaw from the get-go.

 

[gbelleh]

I've owned and carried a PM9 and a PF-9. The Kahr is much more comfortable to shoot, but the Kel-Tec is more comfortable to carry, IMO. The Kahr is nice, but for the money, a good PF-9 is pretty hard to beat. They both make great CCW guns.

I've owned 3 Kel-Tecs and all have been reliable out of the box.