Gun friendly countries?

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Listen, guys... I know that most of you think you live in a country with oppressive, unsconstitutional gun laws, and I can even understand that.

But compared to many other unfortunate places YOU live in a gun-friendly country. If we had Californian gun laws over here it would be a HUGE improvement for us.

You complain about carry laws and forget that there are people like me overseas who are lucky to be able just to OWN a gun. You know, great discussions are held about how some of you taking the California CCW problems to court... I wouldn't even be able to find a lawyer for that kind of stuff because there is ZERO chance of success over here.

Yeah, you PRK subjects are indeed blessed with outstanding, generous gun laws...


Regards,

Trooper
 
Nowadays Germany is one of the more "gun-friendly" countries in Old Europe.

You have to cut through miles and miles of red tape to get a firearms permit from the authorities and pay substantial fees.

But after all that pesky hassle one can buy all kinds of revolvers, semi-auto pistols with high capacity magazins, pump-action or semi-auto shotguns and all kinds of single-shot or repeating rifles.

Even semi-auto military-style rifles ("assault rifles") are legal here. The only restriction is the ban of magazins with a capacity of more than 10 rounds. Since 01.04.2003 even the most "evil" accessories like pistol grips, flash hiders and the horrible bayonet lugs are legal on semi-auto rifles.

AR-15 in pre-ban configurations are very popular with German shooters.

M1A, semi-auto SIG 550, "evilized" H&K SL-8, HK41 in .308 and .223, and even AK-47-clones are available to civilians in Germany.

Only firearms which resembles submachine-guns (military appearance AND barrel length less than 16,5" AND typical pistol calibers) of are still not permitted for sporting purposes. So alas no semi-auto H&K MP5 or UZI for us. :cuss: :banghead: :barf:

The only REALLY impossible thing in Germany is getting a CCW permit. THIS is just not going to happen in our lifetimes.

Compared to quite a lot of other european countries and even the USA, the situation is not so bad at all.

The politicians and bureaucrats hate us, but we're still alive and well! :D :cool: :neener:
 
Trooper, I really don't long for gun laws california style!

No semi-auto rifles there!

Every year new restrictions.

Impending ban on .50BMG weapons.

And, and, and................. :banghead: :barf:
 
Only firearms which resemles submachine-guns (military appearance AND barrel length less than 16,5" AND typical pistol calibers) of are still not permitted for sporting purposes. So alas no semi-auto H&K MP5 or UZI for us.
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Um... wrong. Oberland Arms offers different semi MP5 clones on their homepage and I don't know of any legislation that prohibits them. The trick is to make minor cosmetic changes :)

Illegal, however, are long arms that look like fully automatic military weapons AND have a barrel shorter than 42 cm AND shoot cartridges shorter than 40 mm.


Trooper
 
Bruddah_Al,

There is no industrialized nation with as liberal a set of firearms laws as the US. A few benighted states here (NJ, for instance) may approach typical European levels of gun regulation, but for the most part restrictions are minimal.

(I am given to understand that in some states you actually have to go get a permission slip from the police to transact a handgun purchase, and then must take the handgun to the police so they can register it. Some states apparently also have "waiting periods" or "one gun a month" laws, but the vast majority of states have no such folderol.)
 
Tamara, Switzerland and Finland still permit civilian firearms collectors to buy modern full-auto weapons.
 
trooper,

But I'd rather have a few weapons which I can carry than all kinds of hardware that is confined to my gun vault and the range.
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Don't forget shooting in the back yard. That's a fun use, too... :cool:
 
Tamara, Switzerland and Finland still permit civilian firearms collectors to buy modern full-auto weapons.
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Do you reckon that the process is any more expensive or arduous than getting an SOT here?
 
"Materdei"

"What about Israel and Switzerland?"

It's my understanding that getting a permit to carry in Switzerland is now out in most cantons, and that it's a fairly rigourous process in Israel although they issue a lot of them for the obvious reasons. I'll bet they will quit doing that fairly quickly if they cease to have a terrorism problem though.

I think that Switzerland, and one or several of the Scandanavian countries have fairly relaxed laws about select fire and automatic weapons ownership because of the large % of adults in their version of the army reserve, but I don't believe that overall, there is another firstworld country that is as relaxed about gun ownership, and especially gun carrying by average non-criminal citizens than is the united states.
 
Great discussion, mein Deutcher Kameraden! (Did I say that correctly? All I can do is order your fantastic beer in German! Mein Deutch ist zehr shlimm!)

Anyway, the serious questions I have concern storeage requirements and self-defense in Germany. After you go through all the red tape and purchase your firearm, are there restrictions on where you may keep it? May you simply keep it at home in a closet, loaded, or must it be in a government approved vault or safe, with the ammunition stored separately?

And if a robber breaks into your house, may you shoot him Yankee-style, or will you risk prison like Tony Martin in England if you do so?

snakelogo.jpg
 
In New Jersey to purchas a rifle, shotgun or ammo you must have a firearms ID card which is good for life.To purchas a handgun you must get a pistol permit for each gun and to get a pistol permit you must have the ID card :fire:
 
Great discussion, mein Deutcher Kameraden! (Did I say that correctly? All I can do is order your fantastic beer in German! Mein Deutch ist zehr shlimm!)

Anyway, the serious questions I have concern storeage requirements and self-defense in Germany. After you go through all the red tape and purchase your firearm, are there restrictions on where you may keep it? May you simply keep it at home in a closet, loaded, or must it be in a government approved vault or safe, with the ammunition stored separately?

And if a robber breaks into your house, may you shoot him Yankee-style, or will you risk prison like Tony Martin in England if you do so?
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Hi Travis,

most German regulations on firearms and self-defense tend to be worse than in the US but still waaay better than in the UK.

There are restrictions on storage of guns. You have to keep them in a safe that meets a certain standard. There are different standards for long guns, handguns and ammo. It also depends on the number of guns you want to store in one safe. It is illegal to store a gun in the same safe with ammo in a matching caliber. And the general rule is that your safe's standard drops down to the standard of the place where you keep your key when you don't carry it on your body. Say you work out and put your keys in a locker at the gym... and BAAAAMMM, your gun safe has just dropped down to the safety level of your locker because (theoretically) someone could break into the locker and thus have access to your gun safe :) And since your gym locker probably doesn't meet the standards required by law you're in for a treat...

Regarding self-defense: according to the German penal code, all actions that are required to defend yourself or someone else from a present unlawful attack are allowed. However, you have to use the mildest measure that is suitable for your purpose. I think lethal force to defend property IS possible in some very rare instances when huge values are concerned. I don't know the respective verdicts right now...

If you overstep the borders of legal self-defense you can still get off the hook if you can convince the judges that you did it because you were scared to death and unable to correctly assess your situation.

The problem is of course that people tend to have different opinions about when an attack actually turns life-threatening, and which action is "suitable" to fend off a certain attack. Example: no German law enforcement agency (except for counter-terrorism/SWAT-type units who somehow are judged by different standards :banghead: ) teaches double-taps. According the training manuals the correct SOP is to fire one shot, scan, follow-up shot if necessary because they are afraid of legal problems.

BTW, a criminal breaking into your home does NOT necessarily constitute a threat to your life or health over here... If he's trying to whack you over the head with a crowbar it would be a different story, though...


Regards,

Trooper
 
It is illegal to store a gun in the same safe with ammo in the matching caliber.

...unless you do it in a 'B' or higher grade safe. Then you may store your gun with the matching ammo or even loaded.
 
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