Gun Manufacturers you love to hate (Ruger?) or . . .

[UltraMag1981]

I don't have any "hate" for any gun manufacturer but before I bought my Benelli R1 I did alot of research online about it and from what I can recall, all the magazine and unbiased creditable people reviews were all good....but then when I would go on the forums and read what forum members were all saying, it was mostly all bad! It seemed like more of a political thing because it is made in Italy...not USA. I know Americans are very patriotic and that's how I took the bad talk about Benelli, like if it wasn't made in the states then it's sh*t. Thats how it seemed anyways. Im actually suprised not to see any bad talk about Benelli in this thread accept for one bad customer service claim! By the way..... I Love my Benelli R1 !!!!

 

[SpaceFrank]

I work part-time at a sporting goods store, and the thing I love most about the job is BSing with customers about guns. It's also a good way to make the time pass!

One of the things that will turn me off to a person right away is if they start saying that any one brand is total garbage. They're junk, they're completely unreliable, not accurate, etc. Every company will have a lemon. Most of the hate is just brand loyalty BS. Ford vs. Chevy, enough said.

That being said, I've got my own prejudices. I personally doubt I would buy a Taurus unless the price was right. For the most part they are great guns, especially for the price; however, I think they have a higher lemon frequency than other similarly-sized manufacturers. I've also heard too many horror stories about their CS, which makes for a bad combination. I'm not a fan of integrated locks, either. Now if it was used, and I got a chance to shoot it first, that's a different story. I've got an old M431 that shoots great.

I also probably will never buy a Glock, but like some others said, that's mainly an issue of aesthetics and bulk. For example, an SR9 will do everything a G17 will do, in a slimmer, rounded package. On the other hand, Glocks are so popular that accessories are far more abundant. If it was a duty weapon instead of a CC weapon, that would push me over the edge. Everything's a trade-off...

 

[SpaceFrank]

Double-post alert.

I also wouldn't buy a S&W Sigma. It sounds like a good gun for the money, but something about it just turns me off. Maybe I'm just falling victim to all the bad press it got. I should probably go shoot one.

I was looking into Kel-Tec for a long time, based on their low prices and almost cult-like following. The thing that I don't like, however, is that the company advises against +P ammunition, and also against sustained rapid fire. I'm sure they are solid guns for the purpose, but advertisable durability is always nice. On the other hand, I've heard they have great CS, as a small company.

 

[AirForceShooter]

I don't like Rugers.
I admit they're tanks and somewhat over built. Their customer service is great.

I just don't like them

AFS

 

[ConstitutionCowboy]

I like the Rugers I have. Though the KP90 I own can be described as a handful of gun parts in loose configuration, it is rugged and sufficiently accurate. I'm waiting for Ruger to come out with a 1911 this coming year to mark the anniversary of the 1911. If Ruger doesn't come out with one, I'll be disappointed. Ruger is about the only major US handgun manufacturer who doesn't make one.

Woody

 

[CraigC]

More recent than the Uberti, you know that company that made some of the first SAA replicas actually suited for CAS? (Uberti started making Colt replicas in 1959)

You do realize that Ruger Blackhawks are not only "suited for CAS" but have been used extensively? They have always been more popular than cheap Colt replicas because they are more reliable. Their participation in CAS did not begin with the Vaquero.

And it's quite simple to ignore ones on S&W's - don't touch them, or is that somehow complicated to you?

Yes, until it engages itself. I also find it very "complicated" to ignore the big hole in the side of the frame.

Okay, how about the ones made since Ruger died?

No, only the .38Spl LCR and certain single actions.

Good job being wrong again, just look at these ATF stats as of the most recent year, 2008 - S&W outselling Ruger in 44's - 14,610 to 12,738 (close but no cigar)

Sorry buddy but those numbers include everything between .357 and .44. Which includes everything S&W has produced in .40S&W, 10mm, .41Mag and .44Spl. The only thing Ruger produced in that range would be .41Mag Blackhawks.

The latest garbage has the lock too, LCP and LCR's

The LCR has an internal lock and only the .38 models, not the new .357 version. The LCP does not. Like I said, they work. There have been zero reports of them engaging themselves. They are hidden under the grips and are easily ignored. If you so wish, they are also easily rendered inoperable.

 

[JR47]

Ruger of course:
his quotes
"No honest man needs more than 10 rounds in any gun."
"I never meant for simple civilians to have my 20 or 30 round magazines or my folding stock."
"I see nothing wrong with waiting periods."

Along with that I don't see anything that he built was in any way "great" and I've had many QC issues with Ruger guns.

I see it as different for Ruger than S&W as it was Bill Ruger himself speaking in favor of the gun grabbers rather than someone at S&W simply adding a safety feature to prevent being sued (Which many Rugers and other brands have too).
__________________

Total BS. Taking quotes out of context never truly supports an argument, as you aren't providing facts, just words from a sentence.

S&W made an agreement with the Clinton Administration that went far, far, beyond gun locks. It also initiated sales requirements, and a host of other restrictions on sales of their products.

I currently own over a dozen Rugers, some from the early 1970's. They have been uniformly accurate, reliable, and none of them has ever mentioned anything like Bill Ruger's purported ideas to me.

As for selling a Mk.II because one cannot read the instructions for assembly, that's one for the books. I have a friend who calls me at least every year to help him re-assemble his. He never reads the instruction manual, either.

As for hate, I don't. Glocks to me balance like a 2x4 that someone put a handle on, but I don't hate them.

 

[HOWARD J]

I don't hate any gun mfr.
I have had bad Colts, Remington 700//////////////
I sold them----later I wish I had just had them repaired.
What would I do in my retirement without guns/////////////////

 

[sansone]

I never could get a ruger rifle to shoot sub moa.. still buy ruger handguns, but I avoid their rifles

 

[FROGO207]

Yesterday I took my Ruger Ranch Rifle out to a local pit to see if dropping it off the roof of my jeep changed the POI. At 100 YDS I shot 10 rds from a front rest across my hood. Went to look at target and had a thumb sized hole 3" to left of point of aim. Small windage adjustment of scope later and I was shooting the centers out of 2" stick on targets. If I had a rifle that shot any better what would I use for an excuse when I miss the intended target?? One of my friends asked me once why on earth I got that POS Ranch Rifle when I could afford a fine AR. My reply was I got two of them for your AR price and I can shoot better with either of them than you can with your AR so what was your point again??

 

[sansone]

you got a good one frog, keep it.. minis are great but rarely moa

 

[Spec ops Grunt]

I don't like Hi-points.



But doesn't everyone.


How about irrational love? I love the Makarov and other Soviet designs.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

minis are great but rarely moa

Both my Mini-14 and Mini-30 were(or were very close to it). I let a guy talk me out of my 14 by trading me a brand new Weatherby Vanguard in .270 with Eotec PLUS a new FEG BHP clone in .45acp for it. My Mini-30 was given to my daughter (she LOVED it) and was later sold by her ex out of spite.

 

[walt501]

I've loved Smith & Wesson revolvers since I purchased my first one in 1979 and continued to purchase newer models as the years went by until one day they drilled a hole in the side for no good reason. Since the hole, I've only bought used Smith & Wesson revolvers.

 

[oneounceload]

Quote:
The 10/22, it just gets stripped and used as a receiver most of the time.
Out of the millions and millions of 10/22's in circulation, how many do you really think have been stripped down and rebuilt??? Probably less than 5%.

More like 50% - it's the Jeep of the gun world with tons of aftermarket stuff - those folks wouldn't be making those things if they weren't selling.

"Hate" is too strong for Ruger - more like "greatly disappointed", especially with their stuff form the last decade or two. QA/QC is NOT what it used to be - or at least on the things of theirs I have owned over the years, especially with their rifles and shotguns.

 

[Mags]

I absolutely hate HK if for nothing else their absurd prices on a polymer pistol. I also hate the availability of their products to civilians. (that may not be their fault) But if you someone were to give me an HK or sell me one at what I think they should be worth (5-600 dollars for a pistol) I would jump on it in a heart beat.

I have mixed feelings about Sig, I would like to have one but their mag capacity absolutely stinks compared to other modern pistols. The one mag per new gun and 35 dollar mags don't help.

 

[m500'92]

You do realize that Ruger Blackhawks are not only "suited for CAS" but have been used extensively? They have always been more popular than cheap Colt replicas because they are more reliable. Their participation in CAS did not begin with the Vaquero.

Thats a matter of opinion, I used to shoot 4 vaquero's, all shot about 5 inches from where you aim, all at different points. I consider it shooting where you aim at least somewhat related to reliability. The Uberti has been trouble free and just like a colt, shoots at 6 o clock aim. The only problems I've heard with Uberti's besides overpressure loads, is weak springs, which can be replaced for $20 with a set from wolff. And yes they are technically suited for CAS, but not the traditional division, which most people shoot in.

Sorry buddy but those numbers include everything between .357 and .44. Which includes everything S&W has produced in .40S&W, 10mm, .41Mag and .44Spl. The only thing Ruger produced in that range would be .41Mag Blackhawks.

Yes but it also includes Ruger's double action revolvers and I don't think S&W makes too many revolvers in 41 magnum, let alone 40S&W or 10mm that they don't make at all in revolvers. From my 2009 S&W catalog they don't make any of these calibers, so even if they did in 2008, they obviously weren't selling too good. So Ruger actually has the advantage there.

The LCR has an internal lock and only the .38 models, not the new .357 version. The LCP does not. Like I said, they work. There have been zero reports of them engaging themselves. They are hidden under the grips and are easily ignored. If you so wish, they are also easily rendered inoperable.

Yes well with anything mechanical, there can be failures, wait 10 years and see if that's still true about Ruger Internal Locks, they haven't been bought or used as much at this point, if not, then good for Ruger, they know how to make a lock. And as far as I know, I don't think S&W installs many Internal Locks on their semi-auto's? Do they?

No, only the .38Spl LCR and certain single actions.

The P345, Mk III also do. That's what, 3 out of 5 guns designed after his death that have them and adding it to many single actions once they were redesigned slightly.

Total BS. Taking quotes out of context never truly supports an argument, as you aren't providing facts, just words from a sentence.

And I don't know how those can be put into a good context. Especially adding he refused to sell guns with those restrictions after that point.

 

[HoosierQ]

I totally don't hate Ruger. The only makers I can bring myself to hate are Reck and Rohm. I suppose the whole Bry-Jim-Jen thing too.

 

[robertbartsc]

S&W - because of the pact with the devils.

I thought there was a long running ban that hurt sales after this happened.

 

[CraigC]

Thats a matter of opinion...

Not really. Although I don't expect you to lend any credit to Ruger for modernizing the single action with coil springs and an improved hand design. However, this is not about Uberti's being bad, it's about the heavy use of Rugers in CAS long before the introduction of the Vaquero.

Yes but it also includes Ruger's double action revolvers and I don't think S&W makes too many revolvers in 41 magnum, let alone 40S&W or 10mm that they don't make at all in revolvers. From my 2009 S&W catalog they don't make any of these calibers, so even if they did in 2008, they obviously weren't selling too good. So Ruger actually has the advantage there.

I can do this all day long but it's getting old. At present, S&W has no less than eight different .41's as well as revolvers in 10mm and there was recent production of a model in .40S&W. Doesn't really matter, we don't have "real" numbers in hand so your bringing up of these number is completely meanginless.

Yes well with anything mechanical, there can be failures, wait 10 years and see if that's still true about Ruger Internal Locks

So you're holding it against them because their locks have not yet failed but because they 'may' in the future??? Yes, that's logical.

 

[SuperNaut]

There are manufacturers that possess a certain completeness of thought and their products attest to that vision with innovation, superior look & feel, and solid reliability. Their service and customer support also demonstrate their commitment and belief in their company and product. I try to only buy from manufacturers that have this "completeness." I am rewarded with an outstanding product and their vision is rewarded with loyalty.

While all manufacturers have the "capability, viability, desirability" pyramid skewed in one direction or another, some are more balanced than others. These companies are not hard to spot.

 

[m500'92]

So you're holding it against them because their locks have not yet failed but because they 'may' in the future??? Yes, that's logical.

No I'm just saying that Ruger models with internal locks have been made in far less numbers as well as for less years, so the chances of people seeing a noticeable amount of problems is far less likely, or is that somehow illogical to you?

Also the internal lock issue involves the lightweight scandium and titanium models only and shooting full power loads, as shown here.
http://www.handgunforum.net/general-revolver-area/12159-ruger-s-w-lock-thread.html

Massad Ayoob penned an article discussing some of these equipment failures in the Jan-Feb 2005 issue of American Handgunner. It should be noted that all documented instances of the internal lock causing the gun to malfunction involved a light alloy frame (scandium or titanium) shooting full-power magnum loads.

I can do this all day long but it's getting old. At present, S&W has no less than eight different .41's as well as revolvers in 10mm and there was recent production of a model in .40S&W. Doesn't really matter, we don't have "real" numbers in hand so your bringing up of these number is completely meanginless.

Well if those numbers are irrelevant I guess it would make sense not to make claims that the Super Blackhawk is more popular than the Smith, as nothing points to that. And 44s are always going to be far more dominant in sales than any .41. (And the only models made in 41 are recent models and only 2 aren't part of the classic line - the 357 and 657) But I'm getting tired of this so I'm done.

 

[ljnowell]

So you're holding it against them because their locks have not yet failed but because they 'may' in the future??? Yes, that's logical.

Not many of the ruger bashing posts here have been logical. They are mostly based on blind hatred or lack of experience with the product.

 

[CraigC]

Not many of the ruger bashing posts here have been logical. They are mostly based on blind hatred or lack of experience with the product.

I agree 100%.

 

[CraigC]

Don't know how that happened.