Guns on Campus - Hit This Poll

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Ok ya some collage students shouldn't have a gun, but the ones i am scared of are the one that are going to carry anyways. So why not let me legally carry. If I couldn't handle a gun properly why would i even try to get a ccw i would just carry like any criminal (I don't and won't illegally carry). I don't thing I have nearly as much experience or skills that a marine has. I do think i can handle a fire arm safely and responsably.
 
SOME STATES JUST SEE IT AS A MONEY MAKER.

buddy in ALA said he just went to DMV i think filed out some papers and got a permit 30 min
 
Where in the 2nd Amendment does it say you must be trained to have the right to keep and bear arms?
As for this:
If you want to drink legally when you're 18 join the military and stay on base. They'll sell to you with a military ID and you can drink at the class 6
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That's a myth unles it occurred before my time.
 
students should absolutly be allowed to carry. i get up in the morning and put on my pants and my gun. i work around my house with my gun. i run to the gas station with my gun. i go to the movies with my gun. i go shopping with my gun then i go to class....without my gun. why?

i legaly and safely carry everywhere every day. i am well practiced and experienced with any sidearm i choose to carry. i regularly study the laws concerning concealed carry with the asperation that i will one day be able to recite relevant law from memory at any given moment. what thought process does one use to come to the conclusion that it is not safe for me to carry on campus?

one thing i really HATE is when people use the excuse that police officers have more trainig. whenever i hear this i always call BS on it. were they "trained" more? maybe. does that make them better or more prepared? no. i personally know several cops. for way too many of them, their practice consists of yearly qualifications. i actually had one incident where one of the officer took the m4 and the semi auto shot gun out of his car. he took them to the armory and, after he looked at the shotgun for a moment he just leaned them both up in the corner and started to walk out. i told him that he really should unload them befor he left. i had to help him unload the shotgun, and after he fiddled with the m4 for a couple minuets, i took it and unloaded it myself. i also showed him where the bolt handle was so he could do it himself next time. this was all during my internship during which i was not allowed to carry (i know because i asked specificly) because it was "too much of a liability." dont take this as cop bashing; i am very pro-law enforcement. the point is that just because someone is a cop doesnt mean they are an expert in weapons handling. there were those who were average shots at best and there were a few who struck me as very good. but in the end i am confident that i could keep up with the average officer.

gun free zones do nothing but increase the danger of law abiding citizens and those around them. if carry on campus was allowed, it would have been very unlikely that the UT shooter would have been able to walk across campus, firing randomly without being met with some resistance by an armed student. some may argue that nobody but the gunman was hurt. if he was in fact carrying an "assault rifle" as the news says, he most likely had about 30 rounds avalible. with one shot saved for himself and all the random shooting at buildings, as far as i am concerened he commited 29 counts of attempted murder. i know that this isnt how the law would look at it, thats just my opinion.

yes call 911 if such a situation ever occurs around you, but at the same time do everything you can to keep yourself/loved ones safe. that is why i always carry when legal. like the saying goes "when seconds count, help is just minuets away." not to mention that when help does arrive they arent going to run in with guns blazing. they will gather and cordinate a plan first. even if they do this quickly, that is still more time to wait.
 
Exactly, JEB. The only reason a cop is going to be a good shot is if they have a personal interest in shooting and practice outside of work. It doesn't matter how amazing their training is, marksmanship is a very perishable skill, and if you're shooting once or twice a year, you're not going to stay proficient. My roomate is a state trooper. He's required to shoot twice a year. One training day, one qualification day, for an annual total of about 500 rounds. I shoot that much every week.
 
IT WAS POSTED

some were cops do not hit there targets as often as regular home gun owners

none of of will know just what we will do if that paper target was to start shooting back at us.

and just because someone goes or is going to collage does not mean there any smarter, they just have papers saying so.

poor kids vs rich kids = poor ones are there to learn the rich ones are there because daddy said so. been around some very smart people, but they didn't have any street smarts at all
im sure some rich kids have done well, im also sure some of both have not, you don't teach them at home the world can and will be a shock to them when on there own
 
The way I see it, any attempt to deny or reduce our right to self defense whether at home (home invasion), driving (car jacking), parks/mountains, amusement parks, movies, school, shopping, church, or any other place we pay taxes where local police/sheriff and national police/military forces are "supposed to maintain" security is an infringement attempt.

If there are those concerned with maturity issues, that's a training issue and should be treated separately from our right to self defense issue. Why should the majority of this country suffer and be victimized just because a small minority is irresponsible. If that's the case, none of us should be permitted to drive on the road because of drunk drivers. :eek:

Until the tax payer supported police/military forces can absolutely make certain they can protect us from criminals on a 24/7 basis, us tax payers should be able to defend ourselves until they arrive.

I refer people to hurricane Andrews and Katrina where natural disaster prevented police and military forces to restore law and order while multitude of innocent tax payers were victimized, robbed, raped and killed as my argument for our right to self defense. For them, 911 could and would not helped. If more of these victims were armed and carrying, they may not have been victims.

Pilots now have the right to carry to defend themselves and passengers. Why? Because criminals and terrorist use planes and passengers are not allowed to carry weapons. So students, teachers and professors should not defend themselves from criminals and terrorists who attend/visit school?

Like my signature states, it is the firearms we arm ourselves with that make us not disadvantaged against criminals. It certainly is not the countless criminal laws on the books that's going to protect us when we are being robbed/attacked for sure.
 
one thing i really HATE is when people use the excuse that police officers have more trainig. whenever i hear this i always call BS on it. were they "trained" more? maybe. does that make them better or more prepared? no. i personally know several cops. for way too many of them, their practice consists of yearly qualifications. i actually had one incident where one of the officer took the m4 and the semi auto shot gun out of his car. he took them to the armory and, after he looked at the shotgun for a moment he just leaned them both up in the corner and started to walk out. i told him that he really should unload them befor he left. i had to help him unload the shotgun, and after he fiddled with the m4 for a couple minuets, i took it and unloaded it myself. i also showed him where the bolt handle was so he could do it himself next time. this was all during my internship during which i was not allowed to carry (i know because i asked specificly) because it was "too much of a liability." dont take this as cop bashing; i am very pro-law enforcement. the point is that just because someone is a cop doesnt mean they are an expert in weapons handling. there were those who were average shots at best and there were a few who struck me as very good. but in the end i am confident that i could keep up with the average officer.
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Throughout this thread, the majority of the trained vs untrained debate has been comparing college students against similarly aged soldiers who demonstrate higher levels of proficiency in firearms handling. Or themselves against LEOs. That has been given more emphasis than is deserved.

A person's accuracy with a weapon is secondary to their ability to use their judgment to intelligently determine when it is appropriate. Isn't the number of bad shoots higher than the number of times when a bystander is shot during the course of a good shoot?
 
I don't understand what age has to do with being able to carry on campus. The law in most states already restricts carry permits to those over the age of 21. If 21 year old college students aren't sufficiently mature to carry then...raise the carry age? Not all students enter college as 18 year olds and many non-students work on or have to travel through campuses on a regular basis. As the law exists today in 49 states, none of them can carry.
 
Not all students enter college as 18 year olds
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especially these days. i regularly see students in the halls and in classrooms who are in their 30's and 40's, a few more even older than that. how is it right that their rights are beign infringed upon? are they trying to say that even they are not mature enough?
 
I have yet to hear an explanation as to why one would agree to allow "Person X" to carry in Wal-Mart, the gas station, the local park, Applebee's, and nearly everywhere else; and yet feel that this same person would be inherently dangerous simply because they are on a college campus.

Location-based CCW laws have always perplexed me. Either are person is safe to carry or they are not. The location is irrelevant. If a person is safe enough to have a concealed handgun in the booth next to yours at a restaurant, or standing in the line behind you at the grocery store, how is it they could be dangerous sitting next to you in class?

As has been already said, allowing campus carry would not be changing who could carry. Nearly everywhere, 18-20 year olds cannot carry anyways. So the idea of having a bunch of 18 year olds with guns is a non-issue and only brought up by antis seeking to polarize people against the idea. The only people who could carry are 21+ adults who can already carry most places anyways.

Is there a legitimate argument against campus carry that doesn't have anything to do with making people "feel uncomfortable"?
 
And how would you as a LEO, on a campus with many thousands of potentially armed students, looking for one person with a gun (you probably don't know what gun yet, or whether there is more than one madmen), handle yourself?
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The good guy would be the one who drops his gun when I yell "drop the gun". The bad guy would be the one who points it at me.
 
Hit This Poll Too!

In the wake of several armed robberies on the University of Kentucky campus, the police held a public safety forum. Two members of Students for Concealed Carry on Campus advocated for CCWers to be legally allowed to carry firearms on campus. This started resulted in the poll found part of the way down the right side of a local station's website:

http://www.lex18.com/home/

Please support us by voting!
 
What poles? Neither of your links bring us to a poll.

I support your efforts. The less resistance free zones the better.
 
Mr.Davis said:
In the wake of several armed robberies on the University of Kentucky campus, the police held a public safety forum. Two members of Students for Concealed Carry on Campus advocated for CCWers to be legally allowed to carry firearms on campus. This started resulted in the poll found part of the way down the right side of a local station's website:

http://www.lex18.com/home/

Please support us by voting!
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66% yes - 34% no for U of K poll
 
What poles? Neither of your links bring us to a poll.

I support your efforts. The less resistance free zones the better.
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The poll I posted is no longer there. This thread is almost a week old.
 
Requirements for on campus concealed carry permits for students-

-basic gun understanding knowledge
-must pass a very hard gun safety and awareness class
-Must be able to complete a marksmanship test with excellent overall accuracy
-Must attend a handful of Force on Force training and complete with a high grade

-student must complete all of these requirements before being issued a on campus CCW permit.

Im 19 years old and this is what would make me feel comfortable on a campus. There is a LOT of idiotic people and a lot of parents who refuse to believe there kids are not responsible enough. with a strict guideline and rules i would feel safe.
 
sonier said:
Requirements for on campus concealed carry permits for students-

-basic gun understanding knowledge
-must pass a very hard gun safety and awareness class
-Must be able to complete a marksmanship test with excellent overall accuracy
-Must attend a handful of Force on Force training and complete with a high grade

-student must complete all of these requirements before being issued a on campus CCW permit.

Im 19 years old and this is what would make me feel comfortable on a campus. There is a LOT of idiotic people and a lot of parents who refuse to believe there kids are not responsible enough. with a strict guideline and rules i would feel safe.
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Problem with that is, anyone who is barely able to pay their own way in college would have no ability to protect themselves due to the high cost required to get yet another higher level of permission slip for a God given right that is protected by our Constitution.
 
Domineaux, brings up a good point, I am a 21 year old college student with a job, but have enough trouble making rent, bills, insurance food etc..., I simply cannot afford a CCW permit right now. If a second test was required for an on-campus CCW permit (if it were even allowed in GA), the number of people who received one would be slim at best, probably less than 5% of the whole UGA campus.
 
Problem with that is, anyone who is barely able to pay their own way in college would have no ability to protect themselves due to the high cost required to get yet another higher level of permission slip for a God given right that is protected by our Constitution.
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I see the point, but I disagree with it. I think that you're looking at it the wrong way. Most of these colleges are State Land Grant colleges and many are funded via the state that they reside in. I am of course excluding IV league schools. Here's my idea:

1. Make it a state funded (subsidized) course. Seriously, it's a college, make it a credit. You wouldn't be paying anymore than you already were.
2. Get the people that need the extra money teaching, cops, retired LEO, or MIL teach the courses. They can be accredited the same way any other subject, curriculum, school is.

3.
Requirements for on campus concealed carry permits for students-

-basic gun understanding knowledge
-must pass a very hard gun safety and awareness class
-Must be able to complete a marksmanship test with excellent overall accuracy
-Must attend a handful of Force on Force training and complete with a high grade

-student must complete all of these requirements before being issued a on campus CCW permit.
Click to expand...

I would suggest a class, or portion there of to teach the legal ramifications of discharges and the different type...i.e ND/AD/SD

I would then add another part where they explain WHY we have RKBA in the first place. If I had to take a class in art that more than likely originated in France or Italy anyway, then everybody should have to take a class on the reason we're not Brits.

And how would you as a LEO, on a campus with many thousands of potentially armed students, looking for one person with a gun (you probably don't know what gun yet, or whether there is more than one madmen), handle yourself?
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That same question could be asked in any situation, anywhere, by anybody.

Until the tax payer supported police/military forces can absolutely make certain they can protect us from criminals on a 24/7 basis, us tax payers should be able to defend ourselves until they arrive.
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Until 2007 when the Defense Authorization Act was passed, the US Military was not allowed to patrol US soil. The references are1807 Insurrection Act and 1879's Posse Comitatus Act. Not that I'm arguing that point, just that it hasn't always been that way.
 
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