One range I've visited switched their rentals to members only. Members have to fill out more paperwork and have it checked over, as opposed to the old way, where it was really easy for anyone to walk in and rent one after answering a few written questions. I have no idea if this stems from some unfortunate incident or whether they're wisely trying to cover their asses proactively.
Guy commits suicide at local range.
- Thread starter Ukraine Train
- Start date
- Status
I've made it a point to shoot on Cleland's range since the incident to show support for the business, and because I like shooting there anyway. Several others have been shooting on the days I've been there so it doesn't seem to be hurting them -- a good thing, as they are really nice folks to do business with.
B
BeLikeTrey
Guest
Hey, about going into the woods to talk to Great Spirit...
Please don't take the firearm... Someone could find it, A hiker or their child etc. Don't want that gun (even a disposable one) falling into wrong hands. Just take yourself out there with a pill or something. BY THE WAY, I AM NOT ADVOCATING SUICIDE! I DISAGREE WITH IT. But i also don't want another death due to unattended firearms left behind
Please don't take the firearm... Someone could find it, A hiker or their child etc. Don't want that gun (even a disposable one) falling into wrong hands. Just take yourself out there with a pill or something. BY THE WAY, I AM NOT ADVOCATING SUICIDE! I DISAGREE WITH IT. But i also don't want another death due to unattended firearms left behind
Jiml3
Member
Interestingly suicide is sometimes an act of aggression against someone else.
Examples; A police officer's teenage daughter shot and killed herself with
her father's off duty gun on her birthday.
A successful dentist and his wife came home from a day trip to find when they opened the garage door, their college age daughter dead. She had sealed the garage door, started the other car and died from the fumes. All this because her grades were falling at college. Here father had earlier told her to take a year off or choose a different course. He and his wife were not pushing her to become a lawyer.
People sometimes can't see beyond their problems and stike out at the person they belive is responsible. It appears they are sending the message that they cannot cope with the problem and you are responsible for it, therefore you are responsible for the suicide, now you live with the guilt. If they are not going to seek help. In most cases these people are not aggressive enough to attack the person they perceive to be responsible for their problems.
Examples; A police officer's teenage daughter shot and killed herself with
her father's off duty gun on her birthday.
A successful dentist and his wife came home from a day trip to find when they opened the garage door, their college age daughter dead. She had sealed the garage door, started the other car and died from the fumes. All this because her grades were falling at college. Here father had earlier told her to take a year off or choose a different course. He and his wife were not pushing her to become a lawyer.
People sometimes can't see beyond their problems and stike out at the person they belive is responsible. It appears they are sending the message that they cannot cope with the problem and you are responsible for it, therefore you are responsible for the suicide, now you live with the guilt. If they are not going to seek help. In most cases these people are not aggressive enough to attack the person they perceive to be responsible for their problems.
steveno
Member
there was an indoor range several years ago in the Denver area in the span of a month I think that two people came in and committed sucide. they stopped renting guns for a while anyway and I don't know if they have changed or not.
Andrew Rothman
Member
At Bill's Gun Shop and Range in Minneapolis, a gun rental requires a MN permit-to-purchase (takes a week, costs [edit]nothing, not $10[/edit], good for a year) or a permit to carry (takes up to 30 days to get, costs $100, good for five years).
This would seem to accomplish two purposes:
1. It shifts responsibility for determining fitness to hold a gun from the range to the state, thus potentially decreasing liability, and...
2. It imposes a de-facto "waiting period" on someone who wants to rent a gun just to shoot himself.
This would seem to accomplish two purposes:
1. It shifts responsibility for determining fitness to hold a gun from the range to the state, thus potentially decreasing liability, and...
2. It imposes a de-facto "waiting period" on someone who wants to rent a gun just to shoot himself.
Last edited:
Carlos Cabeza
Member
I don't agree with the man going to the range to off himself but I do think its his life to choose to do as he pleases as long as it doesn't harm anyone else. If a person has conditioned themselves for the final act it's not hard to see why the man was calm, collected and showed no signs of distress. A heart shot doesn't produce nearly the mess as a head shot and is easier to clean up. Don't ask how I know this, I really don't care to explain.
If all other alternatives have been exhausted then I don't see a problem with the act. There are other ways but I think most who contemplate suicide think gun to be less painless.
If all other alternatives have been exhausted then I don't see a problem with the act. There are other ways but I think most who contemplate suicide think gun to be less painless.
Girlwithagun
Member
Sad story. But what makes me really angry is that a couple people on this thread have mentioned that they would use a gun to take their own life. I think its cowardly and selfish to take your own life but for goodness sake, don't become one of the statistics the antis use to take the rest of our guns away. :banghead:
Someone mentioned Budd Dwyer
Someone showed me the video of Budd Dwyer's suicide press conference recently. It was haunting. I don't want to be present for anyone's suicide. Of course, around here, there aren't any "ranges". Just miles and miles of wilderness.
Someone showed me the video of Budd Dwyer's suicide press conference recently. It was haunting. I don't want to be present for anyone's suicide. Of course, around here, there aren't any "ranges". Just miles and miles of wilderness.
ARG! There is things worse then death, to be sure, but I doubt this guy was experiencing any of them. What a POS. I have zero compassion for this guy or anyone like him. You want to kill yourself? Fine. Don't put it on others. If I feel anything about this, I feel for the people who were forced to witness this crap and the poor gun store owner.
Nathanael_Greene
Member
I agree with you, but it's a little unreasonable to expect someone who doesn't care anything about his own life to care much about yours.
Ala Dan
Member in memoriam
Most recently, while working as a security officer at a local
hospital ER; a 15 year old girl was brought in by EMT's due
to a self-inflicted gunshot wound to her temple. Needless
to say she was DOS; and the incident was due to being
grounded for driving her brothers car! Senseless~
an act of rebellion towards her parents, I suppose?
Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
hospital ER; a 15 year old girl was brought in by EMT's due
to a self-inflicted gunshot wound to her temple. Needless
to say she was DOS; and the incident was due to being
grounded for driving her brothers car! Senseless~
an act of rebellion towards her parents, I suppose?
Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
M2 Carbine
member
"Ktulu
ARG! There is things worse then death, to be sure, but I doubt this guy was experiencing any of them. What a POS. I have zero compassion for this guy or anyone like him. You want to kill yourself? Fine. Don't put it on others. If I feel anything about this, I feel for the people who were forced to witness this crap and the poor gun store owner."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ktulu,
You and others are making my point.
If the people that are suffering (for wherever reason) were allowed access to a peaceful, human way to die, probably most would do so and not have to borrow a gun at a shooting range.
It certainally would be easier on them, their families and friends if they could take a pill and go to "sleep".
We give the worst child molester murderer a peaceful death but make decent people resort to terrible things like shooting themselves.
As far as you people that are bad mouthing someone that's in such pain as to kill themselves, I hope you never have to face such a thing.
No, actually I hope you do since you are so damned arrogant and unfeeling.
ARG! There is things worse then death, to be sure, but I doubt this guy was experiencing any of them. What a POS. I have zero compassion for this guy or anyone like him. You want to kill yourself? Fine. Don't put it on others. If I feel anything about this, I feel for the people who were forced to witness this crap and the poor gun store owner."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ktulu,
You and others are making my point.
If the people that are suffering (for wherever reason) were allowed access to a peaceful, human way to die, probably most would do so and not have to borrow a gun at a shooting range.
It certainally would be easier on them, their families and friends if they could take a pill and go to "sleep".
We give the worst child molester murderer a peaceful death but make decent people resort to terrible things like shooting themselves.
As far as you people that are bad mouthing someone that's in such pain as to kill themselves, I hope you never have to face such a thing.
No, actually I hope you do since you are so damned arrogant and unfeeling.
Jiml3
Member
Ktulu;
You seem to have a great deal of anger and as you say, no compassion for the person that takes his own life. Are you so upset that he left a mess for others to clean up? While that would piss me off, I still would feel compassion for a tortured person that felt that was the only way out. While you may not think
that way, you haven't walked in their shoes. Maybe they went thru some for of hell you can't even imagine must less have been able to cope with. How about giving the person the benefit of doubt? You can be angry at the act and the waste of life but don't condemn the person for leaving the hell they are in.
You seem to have a great deal of anger and as you say, no compassion for the person that takes his own life. Are you so upset that he left a mess for others to clean up? While that would piss me off, I still would feel compassion for a tortured person that felt that was the only way out. While you may not think
that way, you haven't walked in their shoes. Maybe they went thru some for of hell you can't even imagine must less have been able to cope with. How about giving the person the benefit of doubt? You can be angry at the act and the waste of life but don't condemn the person for leaving the hell they are in.
Feanaro
Member
My experiance with suicidals is that at least 90% of them don't have any real problems. Besides being temporary problems as Dan suggests, they are pretty insignificant. Perhaps he had some real troubles that he couldn't fix. But he put OTHER people through hell by publicly killing himself. It's a very nasty experiance to watch someone blow themselves all over the wall, not to mention the mess.
Range Ninja
Member
The guy must have had mental problems, good riddance. Thankfully he will not be consuming any more taxes in order to be treated at a hospital or in jail.
M2 Carbine
member
"Range Ninja
The guy must have had mental problems, good riddance. Thankfully he will not be consuming any more taxes in order to be treated at a hospital or in jail."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That sounds very motcho.
Remember to say it at the funeral if it happens to a friend or someone in your family.
The guy must have had mental problems, good riddance. Thankfully he will not be consuming any more taxes in order to be treated at a hospital or in jail."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That sounds very motcho.
Remember to say it at the funeral if it happens to a friend or someone in your family.
Selfdfenz
Member
I was a close friend of a family that had a child commit suicide.
Believe me, it shatters the lives of the survivors be they family or friends.
I don't know what the future holds but I hope and pray I never have an illness or tragedy that would force me to even remotely consider this way out.
S-
Believe me, it shatters the lives of the survivors be they family or friends.
I don't know what the future holds but I hope and pray I never have an illness or tragedy that would force me to even remotely consider this way out.
S-
The_Antibubba
Member
It's different when it's YOU
Feanaro (and Ktulu, and other fortunates),
To an outside observer, perhaps the problems might not seem so bad, but when depression and panic and despair fall on you-very heavily it falls, too-and you cannot take a breath without fear filling every cell, death seems like a gift.
Do you know what it is like to want to die, because the world has fallen apart around you, and you don't know anything about anything anymore, and you're not even sure who you've turned into and WHY this is happening? I have. I know those feelings.
With me, the difference is that I know that, horrible as it is, it will eventually pass. I will take medication that will pacify the waves of panic, and I will take other Godsent meds that will lift the darkness from my mind. I will get up, dust myself off, and begin again.
I've done it before, many times. I will probably have to do it again, and it really does get harder as I get older-it takes longer to recover. But I am resilient, and I have a purpose in life that anchors me here, so I have to get through it.
But not everyone handles it as well. Some people it hits unexpectedly, later in their lives, with no warning, and they have no idea what to do with it. Others get it in their teens, when everything is already overwhelming and they don't have a clue who they are and how much their family really loves them, or that it will get better. Some don't respond to any medication, or any treatment, and suffer for decades before they seek the final out. Neurochemistry has made some great advances, but treating depression is still no better than voodoo and folklore sometimes. Add the mysteries of Mind, and Soul, for which pharmacology has no treatments (though venues for them do exist, too).
I truly pray that you never find yourself curled into the fetal position, crying and wimpering in terror over nothing really serious. May your brain continue to secrete all the right neurotransmitters in the proper amounts at the proper time. I hope you never look at your guns as an escape from pain, or look in your medicine cabinet with fear, or wonder what would happen if you stepped off the curb in front of the bus. If you have teenagers, I hope they know and feel the depth and breadth of your love for them. I hope your friends always know they can talk to you about anything. I hope you know that you are not alone, not ever.
I pray you never truly, intimately KNOW what I am talking about.
And I hope you can learn compassion for those of us who do.
Peace.
Feanaro (and Ktulu, and other fortunates),
To an outside observer, perhaps the problems might not seem so bad, but when depression and panic and despair fall on you-very heavily it falls, too-and you cannot take a breath without fear filling every cell, death seems like a gift.
Do you know what it is like to want to die, because the world has fallen apart around you, and you don't know anything about anything anymore, and you're not even sure who you've turned into and WHY this is happening? I have. I know those feelings.
With me, the difference is that I know that, horrible as it is, it will eventually pass. I will take medication that will pacify the waves of panic, and I will take other Godsent meds that will lift the darkness from my mind. I will get up, dust myself off, and begin again.
I've done it before, many times. I will probably have to do it again, and it really does get harder as I get older-it takes longer to recover. But I am resilient, and I have a purpose in life that anchors me here, so I have to get through it.
But not everyone handles it as well. Some people it hits unexpectedly, later in their lives, with no warning, and they have no idea what to do with it. Others get it in their teens, when everything is already overwhelming and they don't have a clue who they are and how much their family really loves them, or that it will get better. Some don't respond to any medication, or any treatment, and suffer for decades before they seek the final out. Neurochemistry has made some great advances, but treating depression is still no better than voodoo and folklore sometimes. Add the mysteries of Mind, and Soul, for which pharmacology has no treatments (though venues for them do exist, too).
I truly pray that you never find yourself curled into the fetal position, crying and wimpering in terror over nothing really serious. May your brain continue to secrete all the right neurotransmitters in the proper amounts at the proper time. I hope you never look at your guns as an escape from pain, or look in your medicine cabinet with fear, or wonder what would happen if you stepped off the curb in front of the bus. If you have teenagers, I hope they know and feel the depth and breadth of your love for them. I hope your friends always know they can talk to you about anything. I hope you know that you are not alone, not ever.
I pray you never truly, intimately KNOW what I am talking about.
And I hope you can learn compassion for those of us who do.
Peace.
My best friend when i was 18 killed himself with a 45 to the head,know one new or even had a clue that this would happen.My friend found him in a field face down.He was a fun kid,seemed happy.I wish i would have known his pain.i DONT THINK SUICIDES THE ANSWER and i was pretty tornup about it.They blamed his friends for it at the viewing,that was a cheap excuse to take it off his parents for not being their for him and recognizing his pain.
M2 Carbine
member
"readyfire
New Member
Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Maryland
Posts: 15
My best friend when i was 18 killed himself with a 45 to the head,know one new or even had a clue that this would happen.My friend found him in a field face down.He was a fun kid,seemed happy.I wish i would have known his pain.i DONT THINK SUICIDES THE ANSWER and i was pretty tornup about it.They blamed his friends for it at the viewing,that was a cheap excuse to take it off his parents for not being their for him and recognizing his pain."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
readyfire, I grew up in Maryland.
My father shot himself when I was very young. Too young to have guilt feelings about it at the time, but I've thought about it.
Maybe if I had been a better son?
But I dismiss it because I was too young to knowingly be a good or bad son.
Apart from the terrible depression that "The_Antibubba" describes there are other reasons that people give up on or want to end their lives.
Sometimes suicide is the answer. (probably not for your young friend though)
For different reasons some people's life is ended.
The ONLY reason some of them are still alive is because they have responsibilities and they don't want to put those close to them through the pain.
This only makes it worse for them since they feel trapped having to continue a life that is nothing but mental and or physical pain.
In any case the decision to end their life is nobody else's fault or responsibility.
And like I said before it's terrible that our society won't let them die as peacefully as we let a child killer die.
New Member
Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Maryland
Posts: 15
My best friend when i was 18 killed himself with a 45 to the head,know one new or even had a clue that this would happen.My friend found him in a field face down.He was a fun kid,seemed happy.I wish i would have known his pain.i DONT THINK SUICIDES THE ANSWER and i was pretty tornup about it.They blamed his friends for it at the viewing,that was a cheap excuse to take it off his parents for not being their for him and recognizing his pain."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
readyfire, I grew up in Maryland.
My father shot himself when I was very young. Too young to have guilt feelings about it at the time, but I've thought about it.
Maybe if I had been a better son?
But I dismiss it because I was too young to knowingly be a good or bad son.
Apart from the terrible depression that "The_Antibubba" describes there are other reasons that people give up on or want to end their lives.
Sometimes suicide is the answer. (probably not for your young friend though)
For different reasons some people's life is ended.
The ONLY reason some of them are still alive is because they have responsibilities and they don't want to put those close to them through the pain.
This only makes it worse for them since they feel trapped having to continue a life that is nothing but mental and or physical pain.
In any case the decision to end their life is nobody else's fault or responsibility.
And like I said before it's terrible that our society won't let them die as peacefully as we let a child killer die.
- Status
