H&K USP or Sig 226

[robertbank]

I am looking at buying one of the two guns mentioned. I would like to hear your thoughts on the merits of either gun for IPSC Production and/or IDPA.

I have a CZ and a HiPowerand am not sold on either gun. I like the 9MM but would consider the .40 if I thought there was any signficant advantage. CCW is not available up here and I carry .45acp/.45LC when I am in the bush. Either gun would be for the games.

I can't afford both.

Take Care

Bob

 

[Shipwreck]

I just got a USP 9mm full size 3 weeks ago - I really like it. I really like the frame mounted safety because you can keep the gun cocked and locked

 

[poortrader]

I just got a Sig 226R 9mm that I had planned to use for IDPA. I was told that the Sig is not the ideal gun for IDPA because your first shot has to be from double action. But if get use to shooting double action then it's not a problem.

H&K makes a variant that allows you to have it cocked and locked, which makes it function like a 1911.

I don't plan on getting rid of my Sig. I just plan on practicing more or just shoot my Kimber Ultra Carry.

 

[Vex]

First to consider is that HK is beginning to grow a name for poor customer service. I don't think they care too much about civilian ownership.

Second, Sig's factory is here in the states, while HK is still made in Germany. What happens if you have to send it to the factory? Does HK have a local service point?

Third, if you want a consistent trigger, have you had a chance to check out the DAK trigger from Sig? It's AMAZING!

Fourth, Sigs are generally less expensive at the gun stores.

Finally, will you be happy with the size of the HK and the fact that you can't really change the grips on it? The Sig is smaller overall, and you can get rubber or wood grips for it if you feel so inclined.

I've thought about getting an HK USPc. They're nice guns, every time I see one I want it. Unfortunately, I hear too many bad things about HK customer service, and the sales people are never willing to work with the price on an HK.

 

[psyopspec]

Vex, while you make a couple good points I believe you may be mistaken on others.

HKs need not be sent back to Germany if they break down. There are certified armorers stateside. As far as customer service, I've heard the stories too. Personally, I've never needed to use it as I have yet to make one of mine hiccup (3 pistols, about 20k rounds collectively).

HK has the LEM trigger available, similar to the DAK from what I hear.

If necessary, sleeves can be added to the grips. Unless you have uncommonly small hands, the 9mm HK USPs don't take bear paws to grasp.

Bottom line - hold both, shoot both if possible, buy what feels best.

 

[Chipperman]

Both are excellent guns. See if you can try them both out before buying. If the USP grip fits your hand well, it's not an issue. If not, the Sig may be better. The USP is more versatile in terms of DAO, DA/SA, or 1911 style.

I personally prefer the USP, but part of that is because I am left handed. The HK has an ambi mag release, and the safety/decocker lever can be switched to the other side.

HK does indeed have a US plant in VA, so guns do not have to be sent to Germany.

HK customer service seems to be hit or miss. I personally have only had good service from them.

 

[Vex]

Vex, while you make a couple good points I believe you may be mistaken on others.

HKs need not be sent back to Germany if they break down. There are certified armorers stateside. As far as customer service, I've heard the stories too. Personally, I've never needed to use it as I have yet to make one of mine hiccup (3 pistols, about 20k rounds collectively).

HK has the LEM trigger available, similar to the DAK from what I hear.

If necessary, sleeves can be added to the grips. Unless you have uncommonly small hands, the 9mm HK USPs don't take bear paws to grasp.

Bottom line - hold both, shoot both if possible, buy what feels best.

Thanks for the info regarding their stateside repairs.

I tried the LEM trigger on a USP-c, and I didn't like it. It was too light for me and had a rough breaking point. DAK was smooth all the way through. I dunno, another thing is I just can't get over HK's plastic trigger that looks and feels like it came off a pirates hand... (argh, it's me hook!)

I really should buy a USPc though... they're pretty neat.

 

[threefeathers]

I have both and carry both. I would use the one that fits your hand because they are both the absolute top of the line. I like the LEM trigger, it takes no tiem at all to get used to it. I like the DAK it taks the same little time to get used to it. But, each gun feels different in hand. I decided on the Sig for every day carry, but have the USP in my ready to go tactical bag along with a SOCOM16.

 

[SAG0282]

I've had and carried both and prefer the 226.....can't find an objective reason though. Both are flawless. I think the 226 is the finest combat/defensive handgun yet made, but the HK is close.

 

[Rob96]

I just got a Sig 226R 9mm that I had planned to use for IDPA. I was told that the Sig is not the ideal gun for IDPA because your first shot has to be from double action. But if get use to shooting double action then it's not a problem.

Ernie Langdon, formerly of Beretta, Sig and currently with S&W, is probably one of the best IDPA shooters out there. Does just fine with the crunch and ticker.

 

[OH25shooter]

Well, you mentioned two quality firearms. Let me ask you; which one feels best in your hand? Which sights do you like best? Which one points and aims best for you? Which one can you lockback and reload the quickest? Whichever is best in those catagories, is the one for YOU.

 

[robertbank]

Thanks fellows. I have settled on a SIG 226. Two Gun range employees posted very negative comments on another forum regarding H&K long term use. It seems the SIGS outlast the H&K's by a rather wide margin based up their experiences (Edmonton/Calagry ranges). Both ranges sell both pistols so there was nothing in it for them to be negative to one gun over another. Apparently slide cracks seem to be the biggest problem after 25,000 rounds with the H&K.

I like the way the sig sits in my hands and the sight picture. I know the military requirements are significantly different than mine but the SIG was chosen by Canadian Military for their use with certain units which also mitigates my choice.

Take Care and thanks to all.

Bob

 

[gudel]

Two Gun range employees posted very negative comments on another forum regarding H&K long term use.

Apparently slide cracks seem to be the biggest problem after 25,000 rounds with the H&K.

Of course they have no pics, right?
What do we say again about gunshop and gunrange commandos?

 

[TheFork]

I HIGHLY recommend the USP9

In regards to HK customer service, I give them a 10. I sent my USP9 into their new facility in Alabama and had it back in 10 days with a new match trigger. The whole experience was EXCELLENT.

 

[CO Slacker]

I don't think you will regret the SIG. I own several of both and if I could only keep one.....I don't know which it would be. Both are excelent weapons.

I would love to see the pictures of an HK with "slide cracks" after 25K rounds? I don't beleive it for second!

Congrats and enjoy.

 

[robertbank]

gudel

Here is the thread on canadiangunutz. Comments mirror what has been said here. Some like it hot, some like it cold. Post #38 might be of interest to you. I don't believe the gentleman in question as any interest in bashing one make over another, just stating his experience at the range he works at. You may not like what he says about your favourite pistol but if you follow the thread you may agree he has no axe to grind one way or another.


http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39928&page=4

There must be commercial range operators on this forum from the States and they can comment on what their experiences have been as well.

Take Care

 

[Rob96]

In regards to HK customer service, I give them a 10. I sent my USP9 into their new facility in Alabama and had it back in 10 days with a new match trigger. The whole experience was EXCELLENT.

Now that I find amazing, becasue I have always heard that customer service for the civilian side of the house leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[TheFork]

HK has reorganized completely and things are MUCH better now.

 

[PO2Hammer]

I like the way the sig sits in my hands and the sight picture.

That's the best way to pick a pistol short of firing them side by side.
I just got back from the range where I was trying to get dialed in with my USP9mm. I really like everything about it exept for the fact I can't shoot it worth a hoot with any speed at all. Slow fire, I'm OK.
Frustrated, I went and grabbed my Sig P226ST .40 and proceeded to put all 10 rounds into the target at 25 yards (8" shoot-n-see).
Over and over again Sig ergonomics and quality translate into better range results for me.

 

[Edmond]

This a truly a win/win situation for you, you can't lose either way. Both guns are among the best in the world.

Personally, I think the Sig trigger is smoother but that's how it feels to me. YMMV.

 

[10-Ring]

I've never had a negative experience w/ HK customer service in the 20 years I've owned HK products from my P7M8 to my USPc 9 (or my 91, 93, 94, USP 45, Expert 45, USP 9 or my HK 4), but I have had 1st hand experience w/ a SIG that was just a nightmare...YMMV
As for range guns, I haven't seen guns go through more abuse & survive better than the USPs or Glocks...somehow poly guns just don't seem to care how poorly they're maintained or abused
Anyway, I'm sure you'd find an equal amount of stories to prove one side over the other...the important thing is that you've found a pistol you can go & have some fun competing with! Congrats
Oh, and as far as competition goes, all my HK's just seem to love competing. I seem to be the week link :banghead:

 

[robertbank]

10-Ring

"Oh, and as far as competition goes, all my HK's just seem to love competing. I seem to be the week link "

Ain't that the truth. Same here ...LOL

Take Care and thanks to all who replied