Had a discussion about the legality of bringing guns to Church the other day

[GuyWithQuestions]

I was talking with someone the other day about whether it should be legal to bring guns to Church. The person I was discussing this with said that it should be illegal to bring guns into any Church because there's no reason why someone would need a gun when at Church. He added that the exception is a police officer. I've heard from other areas of THR that some have had Church leaders tell them that they could bring a concealed weapon and that some have had Church leaders carry to Church. What I'm thinking is that it should be up to the churches/denominations. Since it's private property and there needs to be the separation of Church and State, then the government shouldn't step in and say no one can carry into Churches and Church leaders can't give people permission to carry. Since there's the freedom of religion, we don't need the government to tell us how many steps we may take once inside Church and what we can and can't do. At the same time, if a Church/denomination doesn't want guns in their Church, then that should be respected because it's private property and there's the separation of Church and State.

What's everyone else's opinion on the legalities of carrying at Churches?

 

[General Geoff]

If there's reason for a police officer to carry, there's reason for a private citizen to carry as well. No exceptions.

 

[WeedWhacker]

Churches are infallable sanctuaries, which is why churches in Iraq, Egypt, and several other African countries don't have a problem with bombs, arson, and other violent assaults.

Though I don't need his permission, I'd discussed the matter with my pastor. He's completely in favor of peaceable folk keeping their arms handy when in (his) church building.

 

[SWMAN]

I was talking with someone the other day about whether it should be legal to bring guns to Church. The person I was discussing this with said that it should be illegal to bring guns into any Church because there's no reason why someone would need a gun when at Church. He added that the exception is a police officer.

Why would a LEO need a gun in church anymore than a commoner? Just because its a church doesn't mean that a nut or terrorist won't attack worshippers in a church. Just because an LEO is an LEO doesn't make it them competent to carry and commoners incompetent to carry.

I heard one LEO say that not having commoners carry weapons makes it easier for LEOs to see black and white: if you have a gun and your not a LEO your the bad guy.

 

[MrChristian]

In Virginia, the law forbids CC in a church unless there is a good reason to suspect you are in danger, but that has never really been tested.

This morning, looking at the news, I see this:

http://wcbstv.com/topstories/local_story_137123218.html
(CBS) MIDDLETOWN, N.Y. It's supposed to be a sanctuary, but instead it turned into the most unexpected place for an attack.

Middletown police right now are looking for a man who sexually assaulted a woman inside a local church. They got a good look at him thanks to surveillance video that was rolling during the entire attack.

The attack happened just after midnight on Wednesday. The victim, a volunteer at St. Joseph's Catholic Church in Middletown, was volunteering during perpetual adoration when the church is kept open for paying respect over the Eucharist.

Good thing she had a pen handy. But I guess there is still no reason to have a gun in a church, right?

 

[TX1911fan]

In Texas, it has to be properly posted or you have to receive actual notice from the person in charge that you can't carry, otherwise you can.

 

[RNB65]

Church carry is prohibited by state law in VA. It should not be. It should be pretty obvious to any sane person that mass killers actively seek out and target "gun free" zones for their rampages.

 

[JimmyN]

In Virginia, the law forbids CC in a church unless there is a good reason to suspect you are in danger, but that has never really been tested.

What it actually says is:

18.2.283
Carrying dangerous weapon to place of religious worship.

If any person carry any gun, pistol, bowie knife, dagger or other dangerous weapon, without good and sufficient reason, to a place of worship while a meeting for religious purposes is being held at such place he shall be guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor.

So would personal self defense be a "good and sufficient" reason?

 

[RNB65]

So would personal self defense be a "good and sufficient" reason?

Depends on if the jury is liberal or conservative.

 

[CleverNickname]

Why would a LEO need a gun in church anymore than a commoner?

I did not realize we had gone back to feudal times. Thanks for the update.

 

[Thin Black Line]

If we're going to bring guns into Church for protection in this country, I need
someone to explain to me how we're crossed into the time of requiring the
sword in one hand and the trowel in the other?

 

[JimmyN]

"When a strong man, fully armed, guards his palace, his possessions are safe."
Jesus Christ, Luke 11:21

 

[Mr. James]

As noted, Virginia's poorly worded law bans concealed carry in a church during worship services without "good and sufficient reason."

Well, defense of my brothers and sisters (in that big, broad New Testament sense), my son, my pastor, and myself are all good and sufficient reasons to carry in church. I do (in Virginia). If I become the test case, I'll let you know, but a simple Google search for attacks on churches, whether during services or not, would produce a plethora of cases.

Sorry, but the only place I simply will not carry is the workplace (fed.gov) where it is a felony and where they begin random searches on Monday (this in response to Virginia Tech - I feel safer already).

 

[Feral Cowboy]

Church carry.

Georgia law prohibits CCW permit holders from carrying into church. Wrong, but it does.
Their have been plenty of mass shootings in churches.
Churches should not be prohibited by government law, churches should not prohibit it, and the individual should make his own decision.
The "right to keep............" didn't say except for church.
I believe the 2nd trumps others and it trumps property rights. Lots of folks disagree, but I feel strongly that no one can tell me I can't "bear arms".

 

[budney]

The person I was discussing this with said that it should be illegal to bring guns into any Church because there's no reason why someone would need a gun when at Church.

I'm afraid your friend has no idea how the law works. There's no reason for fat girls ever to wear Spandex(tm)--therefore, it must be illegal. There's no reason to pierce your nipples. There's no reason to eat vegemite. There's no reason to own five cars. And so on...

--Len.

 

[GuyWithQuestions]

So what if you were caught in Virginia

I live in Utah, not Virginia. Let's say that in Virginia there's a Church where a pastor carries and tells the whole congragation that they can carry. Then someone reports it to the police. Could they appeal to the Supreme Court for a violation of the freedom of religion? Church property is private property, not government property, and if they say church leaders can't decide whether or not people can carry, isn't that not separating Church and State?


Some states say that you can't legally carry in Churches. As far as I'm aware, the other states either do one of the two: (1) either the Church has to give you permission, or (2) they have to post or verbally tell you that you can't carry (or in Utah they also have the option of notifying the state). I would be against making Church carry illegal, but wouldn't care which of the latter two options would be the law. I would prefer the last one since for the most part I trust those with concealed permits, and so the Church would have the option of saying no if they didn't want that person to carry. I just don't think the State should say "No firearms on Church property" because it sounds unconstitutional for the government to regulate how Churches operate. The government lets Indians smoke weed on their reservations, so why not let the Churches have or not have guns according to their own desires?

 

[Thin Black Line]

Sorry, but the only place I simply will not carry is the workplace (fed.gov) where it is a felony and where they begin random searches on Monday (this in response to Virginia Tech - I feel safer already).

More likely due to the two screws that came very publicly loose at NASA.

 

[MudPuppy]

there's no reason why someone would need a gun when at Church.

"17 September 1999

Just before 7 p.m. on Wednesday evening Larry Ashbrook walked into the Wedgwood Baptist Church in a middle-class neighborhood on the southwestern edge of Fort Worth, Texas and began shooting. He unloaded three magazines of bullets from a nine-millimeter semi-automatic handgun before turning the weapon on himself.

Three teenagers and three adults were killed at the church and a fourth teenager died later at the hospital. Seven others were being treated at area hospitals."

Your friend is wrong. If the above information doesn't make them understand, use your time in a more productive manner, like teaching a pig to whistle.

 

[island]

Might be relevant:

http://shop.wnd.com/store/item.asp?ITEM_ID=1960

 

[Double Naught Spy]

In Texas, it has to be properly posted or you have to receive actual notice from the person in charge that you can't carry, otherwise you can.

Well, there must be a 30.06 sign or you have to receive notice from someone representing the church, acting as their agent, not necessarily the person in charge.

 

[GuyWithQuestions]

island,

I like that website.

 

[pcosmar]

Would this be a good reason?
http://wcbstv.com/topstories/local_story_138122148.html

 

[Zundfolge]

It seems to me that telling a church they may not allow members to carry or telling a church they must allow members to carry is a violation of the separation of Church and State (of course the only time the government enforces separation of Church and State issues is when they get to violate the liberties of religious people).

 

[CZ 75 BD]

No problem in Alabama. Why would you not carry in church?

 

[Buttermilk]

If you carry concealed, just you and the Good Lord will know about it. Just Shut Up and do it. Yes there are killings in churches. What better place for some Islamic zealot to go to the highest part of his heaven than at a Christian church full of unarmed people.
Just do it. The more stink you raise about it, the more it will be called to peoples attention and some Democrat do-gooder will pass a law to stop it.