Third_Rail
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- Jan 10, 2004
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Rather hard to conceal those old beasts with anything less than a heavy jacket, though!
Have you ever been desperate enough to carry an old style replica gun?
- Thread starter Doug.38PR
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I regularly carry an 1858 Remington replica, 44 cal., 5.5 in barrel, made by Pietta, and tuned up by Bigiron Barrels to accept a 48gr charge of pyrodex p. I can easily conceal it in a hip holster with a long shirt over it. I have a ccw permit and other modern guns also, but I like the old 44 c&b and I've gotten to be a damn good shot with it. Loaded properly, it's reliable and accurate and just as effective as a modern cartridge gun. Looking forward to fall though so I can use a shoulder holster, easier concealment with long shirt and jacket.
So true, but I had several nice leather coats at the time, one was a WWII german leather trenchcoat I picked up in France, you could hide anything you wanted under it.
My taste in cloathing has changed a bit since then, I gave the coat to a friend of mine who fits it better now.
I also traded the remmy for some work on my car, I regret giving it up.
My taste in cloathing has changed a bit since then, I gave the coat to a friend of mine who fits it better now.
I also traded the remmy for some work on my car, I regret giving it up.
I am not a lawyer, but I don't know of any state where a black powder or non-cartridge firearm is not considered a deadly weapon in regard to carrying, carrying concealed, assaulting with or using in a crime.
In many states, guns defined as antiques (usually following the Federal definition) can be bought and sold without going through the legal hoops for modern handguns, but when it comes to carrying or using in a crime, they are legally the same as the latest from Glock.
So if you stick up the Last National Bank using an original Colt Paterson, the cops are not going to wish you well as you leave with the money.
Jim
In many states, guns defined as antiques (usually following the Federal definition) can be bought and sold without going through the legal hoops for modern handguns, but when it comes to carrying or using in a crime, they are legally the same as the latest from Glock.
So if you stick up the Last National Bank using an original Colt Paterson, the cops are not going to wish you well as you leave with the money.
Jim
oswulf
Member
+1.
Black powder guns are considered firearms by every state and the federal government, they just aren't regulated by the feds. I don't know of any wording in any law that would let someone assume they are not considered "firearms". They may or may not be regulated locally, or even mentioned specifically in CCW regs, but it would be prudent to treat them as the deadly weapons they are. The state sure would if caught carrying concealed without a license.
To the original topic, I used to travel constantly and my favorite carry gun for a couple years was a Ruger Old Army I bought while travelling in Montana since I couldn't buy a modern pistol without having it shipped to a dealer in my home state which I wouldn't be back in for several months. I never felt under armed.
Oswulf
Black powder guns are considered firearms by every state and the federal government, they just aren't regulated by the feds. I don't know of any wording in any law that would let someone assume they are not considered "firearms". They may or may not be regulated locally, or even mentioned specifically in CCW regs, but it would be prudent to treat them as the deadly weapons they are. The state sure would if caught carrying concealed without a license.
To the original topic, I used to travel constantly and my favorite carry gun for a couple years was a Ruger Old Army I bought while travelling in Montana since I couldn't buy a modern pistol without having it shipped to a dealer in my home state which I wouldn't be back in for several months. I never felt under armed.
Oswulf
The Drew
Member
Sorry Oswulf but PA doesn't even recognize longarms as "firearms" They are weapons other than firearms. The legal definition of a firearm in PA was given earlier as:
PA's definition of a "firearm," is any pistol or revolver with a barrel length under 15", any rifle with a barrel length under 16", any shotgun with a barrel length under 18", and any pistol, revolver, rifle, or shotgun with an overall length under 26"
This definition is straight out of the uniform firearms act. Don't be so quick to assume that what we all know is a firearm is really a firearm as per state/federal law.
The consequence of a weapon being classified a "firearm" in PA is that it is a state regulated weapon which dealers are licensed and must send sales records to the state police... IOW they are defacto registered.
This is NOT the case with black powder cap and ball revolvers. They require NO paperwork despite being "any revolver" so that is where I am at.
PA does have a statute that says you cannot carry a loaded weapon other than a "firearm" in a vehicle unless you have a LTCF So carrying a cap and ball revolver in a car without a license is covered as illegal.
PA's definition of a "firearm," is any pistol or revolver with a barrel length under 15", any rifle with a barrel length under 16", any shotgun with a barrel length under 18", and any pistol, revolver, rifle, or shotgun with an overall length under 26"
This definition is straight out of the uniform firearms act. Don't be so quick to assume that what we all know is a firearm is really a firearm as per state/federal law.
The consequence of a weapon being classified a "firearm" in PA is that it is a state regulated weapon which dealers are licensed and must send sales records to the state police... IOW they are defacto registered.
This is NOT the case with black powder cap and ball revolvers. They require NO paperwork despite being "any revolver" so that is where I am at.
PA does have a statute that says you cannot carry a loaded weapon other than a "firearm" in a vehicle unless you have a LTCF So carrying a cap and ball revolver in a car without a license is covered as illegal.
You were right about 15" vs. 13", oops. Don't know what I was thinking. But anyway, there's a law that specifically says that black powder guns are considered "firearms" for the purpose of concealed carry.
Check statute 6118, Antique Firearms.
(a) General rule.--This subchapter shall not apply to antique firearms.
(b) Exception.--Subsection (a) shall not apply to the extent that such antique firearms, reproductions or replicas of firearms are concealed weapons as provided in section 6106 (relating to firearms not to be carried without a license), nor shall it apply to the provisions of section 6105 (relating to persons not to possess, use, manufacture, control, sell or transfer firearms) if such antique firearms, reproductions or replicas of firearms are suitable for use.
(c) Definition.--As used in this section, the term "antique firearm" means:
1. Any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock or percussion cap type of ignition system 1050.
2. Any firearm manufactured on or before 1898.
3. Any replica of any firearm described in paragraph (2) if such replica:
i. is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional center fire fixed ammunition; or
ii. uses rimfire or conventional center fire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.
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Gotta love legalese. That basically means that antique firearms are only considered firearms for sections 6105 and 6106. So convicted felons may not own black powder firearms, and you must be licensed to carry concealed a black powder firearm which meets the PA state definition of "firearm."
Check statute 6118, Antique Firearms.
(a) General rule.--This subchapter shall not apply to antique firearms.
(b) Exception.--Subsection (a) shall not apply to the extent that such antique firearms, reproductions or replicas of firearms are concealed weapons as provided in section 6106 (relating to firearms not to be carried without a license), nor shall it apply to the provisions of section 6105 (relating to persons not to possess, use, manufacture, control, sell or transfer firearms) if such antique firearms, reproductions or replicas of firearms are suitable for use.
(c) Definition.--As used in this section, the term "antique firearm" means:
1. Any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock or percussion cap type of ignition system 1050.
2. Any firearm manufactured on or before 1898.
3. Any replica of any firearm described in paragraph (2) if such replica:
i. is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional center fire fixed ammunition; or
ii. uses rimfire or conventional center fire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.
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Gotta love legalese. That basically means that antique firearms are only considered firearms for sections 6105 and 6106. So convicted felons may not own black powder firearms, and you must be licensed to carry concealed a black powder firearm which meets the PA state definition of "firearm."
While a cap and ball revelover might not be classified as a 'firearm' in your state (which is really an issue of how it's bought or sold) it's still a weapon, and carrying a concealed weapon (even a large knife) without a permit is a no-no in most states.
I've never carried a BP revolver 'seriously', mine are strictly range toys.
Though i've hunted with BP rifles and shotguns.
I've never carried a BP revolver 'seriously', mine are strictly range toys.
Though i've hunted with BP rifles and shotguns.
The Drew
Member
That's the statute I was looking for, that answers the question. That loophole has been closed in PA. And it looks like they even attempted to close the felon loophole too.
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