Whiskey Mike
Member
We don't have a lot of 1000 yard shooting in the local area, but we have a 600yard shoot every other month. A lot of 6.5x284s doing very well, one fellow has a 260 Rem AckImp that's putting them in the X ring.
Help choosing 1,000 yard cartridge
- Thread starter benzh
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Quintin Likely
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Using Tubb as a reference, the standard barrel length on a T2K is 25", and he seems to do okay with that. I don't know what the difference would be with 3" less barrel. For maximum effect ballistically downrange though, I'd like all the barrel I could get. Other than manueverablity and balance, there isn't nothing to lose with a longer tube.
Jim Watson
Member
A really good all-around rifle you can frolic around with at 100-200 yards will take you out to 600 without much trouble. But a thousand yard gun is a pretty specialized piece of equipment, and I think you are asking too much for a short light rifle to go that far with good results.
In my limited experience, there was the guy on the next target with the M1A National Match (You know, a MOA .308 with 22 inch barrel.) who was simply hammering the middle out of the target at 600 yards. I don't think he ever got on the paper at 1000.
In my limited experience, there was the guy on the next target with the M1A National Match (You know, a MOA .308 with 22 inch barrel.) who was simply hammering the middle out of the target at 600 yards. I don't think he ever got on the paper at 1000.
benzh
Member
PHP:
Are you saying that a 20" 308 is going to have enough barrel for out to 800 yards?Yes. I wish I could find the link, but I am almost certain Jacob Bynum at www.riflesonly.com shot a suppressed 19" Accuracy International a one of their "tactical" matches in which they engage targets at 1,000 yards.
And in the December 2004 issue of "The Accurate Rifle" Rocky & Norm Chandler authored an article "WE OBJECT! A Few Important Points" where they had some pretty strong comments about what is and is not a "Sniper" competition and what and what does not make for an optimal "sniper" rifle. They wrote: "How do we know this for sure? We have IBA (Iron Brigade Armory) rifles over there doing just that (referring to Iraq and Afganistan)...Iron Brigade 2-=inch barreled, suppressor-equipped Sniper rifles...are in combat, and to write perhaps immodestly but accurately: They are doing one hell of a job, where others are not! What, you didn't know that 20-inch .308 rifles can shoot sub-minute of angle at 1,000 yards?...And guess what? We have 18 1/2 inch suppressed rifles...doing just as well - and we do mean shooting the grand."
Now, I don't know these folks, but they seem to be pretty well respected in the "tactical" precision rifle community.
benzh
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re theCZ
Please understand I mean no disrespect. I think folks read what they want to read into a question (I know I am frequenty guilty of this - just ask my wife!) The subject of my original post asked for help choosing a 1,000 yard target. Just from that request it would be easy to assume I am talking about a dedicated 1,000 yard rifle - the kind that the benchrest shooters use. My requirements are for it to be easy to handle in all positions from 100 to 1,000 yards. I intend to use it for simply practice from various positions, maybe take a precision rifle class and perhaps shoot a long range rifle match like the Sniper's Hide Cup http://www.riflesonly.com/shc05.htm
And don't get me wrong, trying to get a .308 bullet out of a 20" tube and have it reach 1,000 yards while remaining supersonic is a feat! That's also why I posted the table with the .243 win data in it. It seems that I can achieve a much greater likelyhood of remaining supersonic and have better wind drift. I just wanted to make sure I was not missing something as I have not yet tried this.
All of your comments have been very helpful. Thank you!
HB
Please understand I mean no disrespect. I think folks read what they want to read into a question (I know I am frequenty guilty of this - just ask my wife!) The subject of my original post asked for help choosing a 1,000 yard target. Just from that request it would be easy to assume I am talking about a dedicated 1,000 yard rifle - the kind that the benchrest shooters use. My requirements are for it to be easy to handle in all positions from 100 to 1,000 yards. I intend to use it for simply practice from various positions, maybe take a precision rifle class and perhaps shoot a long range rifle match like the Sniper's Hide Cup http://www.riflesonly.com/shc05.htm
And don't get me wrong, trying to get a .308 bullet out of a 20" tube and have it reach 1,000 yards while remaining supersonic is a feat! That's also why I posted the table with the .243 win data in it. It seems that I can achieve a much greater likelyhood of remaining supersonic and have better wind drift. I just wanted to make sure I was not missing something as I have not yet tried this.
All of your comments have been very helpful. Thank you!
HB
Oh okay, I guess at first I just thought you were going to use the gun specifically for 1000yd, but now I see you mean to use it in a kind of all-purpose roll. Please excuse my previous reply, I was a little cranky for unrelated reasons. 
Howard:
I did notice that bit about the longer barrels, but based off their format a person might mistakenly come to the conlusion that it only matters with the magnums.
As for the .243 and 6mm rounds, I'm afraid I don't have enough first or second-hand knowledge to coment on barrel lengths.
I did notice that bit about the longer barrels, but based off their format a person might mistakenly come to the conlusion that it only matters with the magnums.
As for the .243 and 6mm rounds, I'm afraid I don't have enough first or second-hand knowledge to coment on barrel lengths.
Stinkyshoe
Member
The reason I asked about a 20" is because if thats what you have, thats what you have. I keep hearing it both ways. (Yes a 20" is sufficient for 800 yards, No it is not). Perhaps some prefer cartridges that are faster and flatter shooting than the 308.
benzh
Member
I think one thing I am learning is to start with a longer barrel say 22 or 24" inch and make sure that'll work. Then, maybe I cut if back if I just "have" to.
Stinkyshoe
Member
A benchrest shooter I know said that he cut his 26in 308 to 20in to increase his accuracy. He won the state games with 11 rounds in a .50" circle at 300 yards with a 20in barrel. However, I am sure things get a lot different down range another 500-700 yards.
I'm glad you clarified that, Howard!
Because for a second or two there, it sounded like you were taking quotations from folks like G. David Tubb, and Norm and Rocky Chandler, and using their info to basically blow off the opinions of others of us who regularly compete at 1000 yards. (Myself, with a 6.5-06 for several years at places like Sacramento Valley and Williamsport) Bogie is a regular here who does serious long-range benchrest work, and he makes my 8" 1000 yard Interdiction Rifle groups look weak in comparison to what his Stolle Panda/Shilen beauty can do. Then I'd have to wonder why you asked for help choosing a 1000 yard cartridge to begin with...
I don't doubt that if anybody can burn out a barrel with a 6.5-284 it's G. David Tubb himself. But then again, he certainly can afford to push things to the extreme limit, he has sponsorship and lots of trophies. I was poor, and started out with P.O. Ackley Volumes I and II early in my wildcat cartridge career.
If you're serious about taking things out to 1000 yards, even if just occasionally, don't cut off your nose to spite your face with a 20" barrel. There are more than enough variables (ie, temperature, altitude, winds, mirage) that will creep up and make things difficult at that distance, transsonic bullets don't have to be one of them. Swinging a 24-26" or longer barrel isn't that much more difficult.
Don't forget, if you settle on the 6mm/.243 as your long-range round, those Berger VLD bullets will require a fast 1-8" twist for the 105gr bullets, and a faster 1-7" twist for the 115gr VLD's. Not a bad thing, but something to remember when you order your barrel from Krieger/PacNor/Shilen/Lilja.
Because for a second or two there, it sounded like you were taking quotations from folks like G. David Tubb, and Norm and Rocky Chandler, and using their info to basically blow off the opinions of others of us who regularly compete at 1000 yards. (Myself, with a 6.5-06 for several years at places like Sacramento Valley and Williamsport) Bogie is a regular here who does serious long-range benchrest work, and he makes my 8" 1000 yard Interdiction Rifle groups look weak in comparison to what his Stolle Panda/Shilen beauty can do. Then I'd have to wonder why you asked for help choosing a 1000 yard cartridge to begin with...
I don't doubt that if anybody can burn out a barrel with a 6.5-284 it's G. David Tubb himself. But then again, he certainly can afford to push things to the extreme limit, he has sponsorship and lots of trophies. I was poor, and started out with P.O. Ackley Volumes I and II early in my wildcat cartridge career.
If you're serious about taking things out to 1000 yards, even if just occasionally, don't cut off your nose to spite your face with a 20" barrel. There are more than enough variables (ie, temperature, altitude, winds, mirage) that will creep up and make things difficult at that distance, transsonic bullets don't have to be one of them. Swinging a 24-26" or longer barrel isn't that much more difficult.
Don't forget, if you settle on the 6mm/.243 as your long-range round, those Berger VLD bullets will require a fast 1-8" twist for the 105gr bullets, and a faster 1-7" twist for the 115gr VLD's. Not a bad thing, but something to remember when you order your barrel from Krieger/PacNor/Shilen/Lilja.
benzh
Member
Gewehr98
Glad you guys aren't too quick on the quickboard! I'm sure you noticed that I don't post here much. But I've been around the 'ole internet troll the forums tricks - and I am glad you didn't throw me to the wolves! I've just gotten back into shooting again and I remember this board having some good folks on it.
You make some excellent points. As in anything in life, just because it can be done a certain way, doesn't mean that's they best means of getting their on a consistant basis - without driving yourself crazy.
I've been able to punch out to 800yds only once (and that was a good example of it can be done, I would not reccomend it. I was using a .223 in a 24" 1-9 twist rifle launching 69gr SMKs-yes, I did connect then. But completely failed to connect at 600 yards the next month!)
On to your next point regarding twist. It does seem there is some disagreement on whether the 1-8 will spin the 115gr accurately. If I chamber in 1-7 or 1-7.5 and for some reason end up shooting the 107grs. Will it matter? Does the faster twist fault more? Will a faster twist barrel "burnout" faster than a slower one?
Again thanks for all of your feedback.
Glad you guys aren't too quick on the quickboard! I'm sure you noticed that I don't post here much. But I've been around the 'ole internet troll the forums tricks - and I am glad you didn't throw me to the wolves! I've just gotten back into shooting again and I remember this board having some good folks on it.
You make some excellent points. As in anything in life, just because it can be done a certain way, doesn't mean that's they best means of getting their on a consistant basis - without driving yourself crazy.
I've been able to punch out to 800yds only once (and that was a good example of it can be done, I would not reccomend it. I was using a .223 in a 24" 1-9 twist rifle launching 69gr SMKs-yes, I did connect then. But completely failed to connect at 600 yards the next month!)
On to your next point regarding twist. It does seem there is some disagreement on whether the 1-8 will spin the 115gr accurately. If I chamber in 1-7 or 1-7.5 and for some reason end up shooting the 107grs. Will it matter? Does the faster twist fault more? Will a faster twist barrel "burnout" faster than a slower one?
Again thanks for all of your feedback.
12-34hom
Member
1000 yard chambering?
I went with a 6mm AI - 1 & 8 twist Shilen SS select match barrel - shoots 105 grain Hornaday A-max & 107 Sierra Matchkings into very small groups using IMR 7828 powder with Federal Match primers.
If i were to build a rifle just for 1000 yard comp, i would chamber it in 300 AI.
12-34hom.
I went with a 6mm AI - 1 & 8 twist Shilen SS select match barrel - shoots 105 grain Hornaday A-max & 107 Sierra Matchkings into very small groups using IMR 7828 powder with Federal Match primers.
If i were to build a rifle just for 1000 yard comp, i would chamber it in 300 AI.
12-34hom.
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