Help explain: Rapid Fire and Slow Fire

[Group Therapy]

I have been shooting at 100 yards, mostly 5 shot groups, using the SR-1 targets. They are labeled for 100 yard "slow and rapid fire." But there is a SR21 for 100 yard "rapid fire", but it has different size scoring rings.

I shoot with military aperture sights on several different rifles using 6 o'clock hold. These are appropriate targets for that, but I am not familiar with the NRA competition slow/rapid fire stuff or why the rings are different.

Help me out on this. Its all new to me. Thanks.

View attachment 231320 SR1 Slow and Rapid

View attachment 231321 SR21 Rapid Fire

 

[Ramone]

The NRA Service Rifle (SR) course of fire is at 200, 300, and 500 yards. Because a lot of local ranges are only out to 100, the targets you have are reduced from the full size targets for 200 (SR-1) and 300 (SR-21) yards, being the same apparent size at 100 yards as the full sized targets at 200 & 300.

There is also a MR-31 that is the apparent size of the 500 yard target when placed at 100 yards.

Slow Fire is up to 1 minute per shot for the string ( usually 10 minutes for 10 rounds ). Rapid Fire is 10 rounds in 1 minute.

Above is off the top of my head- it's been a while since I competed. IIRC, usally it's Slow Fire Offhand at 200, Rapid Fire Sitting or Kneeling at 200, Rapid Fire Prone at 300, and Slow Fire Prone at 500.

 

[Barman54]

I have been shooting at 100 yards, mostly 5 shot groups, using the SR-1 targets. They are labeled for 100 yard "slow and rapid fire." But there is a SR21 for 100 yard "rapid fire", but it has different size scoring rings.

I shoot with military aperture sights on several different rifles using 6 o'clock hold. These are appropriate targets for that, but I am not familiar with the NRA competition slow/rapid fire stuff or why the rings are different.

Help me out on this. Its all new to me. Thanks.

View attachment 231320 SR1 Slow and Rapid
Sec
View attachment 231321 SR21 Rapid Fire

Slow Fire, the Rounds are loaded singly, usually 200 yards Standing, and 600 yards prone
Rapid Fire the Rounds are loaded Via the Magazine, Sitting at 200 yds, 60 seconds, your Prone at 300 yds, 70 seconds. On both "Rapid Fire" a Magazine or Clip change is required
Most Service Rifles will shoot 2 rds with the first Mag/Clip, which should take about 20 +/- seconds, load the second Mag/Clip with the remaining 8 rds, within the remaining time allowed.
The yardages will very from range to range.
You can shoot all the positions at reduced yardages, 100, or 200, the Black will be the same size, but the scoring rings will be tighter, to simulate the further distances.
I believe your SR21 is a 100 yard sitting position., A SR31 would be for the Prone Rapid.

Barman54
Out

 

[Group Therapy]

Thanks, guys. That was the info I was looking for. I won't be competing and most of my shooting is limited to 100 yards. Although I have set up a 200 yard range and used it a few times with the full size 200 yard target. Loved it. Here is a pic of a 10 round group with my M1A:
View attachment 231326

Unfortunately the target label in bottom right is covered by the round holding the paper down for the pic. And I am not where the targets are right now and I don't remember which this is. But it does have the 12" aiming black.

 

[Barman54]

Thanks, guys. That was the info I was looking for. I won't be competing and most of my shooting is limited to 100 yards. Although I have set up a 200 yard range and used it a few times with the full size 200 yard target. Loved it. Here is a pic of a 10 round group with my M1A:
View attachment 231326

Unfortunately the target label in bottom right is covered by the round holding the paper down for the pic. And I am not where the targets are right now and I don't remember which this is. But it does have the 12" aiming black.

94-2X with "ball" ammo not too bad !!

Barman54
Out

 

[Barman54]

94-2X with "ball" ammo not too bad !!

Barman54
Out

Scratch that 96-2X forgot to subtract

 

[Group Therapy]

Scratch that 96-2X forgot to subtract

It's all about Group Therapy!!
And that was standing at a tripod in the woods. I lazed out the range so I know the distance is accurate. I shoot at a secluded personal range I have set up on public land near where I live. 50 yard, 100 yard, 200 yard target stands. No bench. I just leave a home made tripod there. Just have to bring my targets and I am good to go!

 

[MutinousDoug]

I would score your target as displayed as a 95-2x but a closer examination is warranted. If you can hold a 95 average score across the course to 600 yds, that would qualify you as a Master class shooter.

 

[Bart B.]

Until about fifty years ago, the high power target's high scoring 5-rings were near twice the size of the current 10-rings. They had been that big since the late 1890's to early 1900's. 12" 5-ring at 200 and 300 yards, 20" at 500 or 600, 36" at 800, 900 and 1000 yards.

Along came the 7.62 NATO and its commercial sibling in the early 1960's shooting more accurate producing higher scores (with lots of unbreakable ties) breaking all the records shot with the venerable 30-06. The NRA, in conjunction with the military, reduced the scoring ring sizes to the decimal target 10-ring versions now used.

 

[Laphroaig]

Call me anal, but just to set the record straight:

SR-1 is the 200 yd. reduced target for standing and rapid fire sitting;
SR-21 is the 300 yd. reduced target for rapid fire prone;
MR-31 is the 600 yd. reduced target for slow fire prone.

 

[rskent]

Until about fifty years ago, the high power target's high scoring 5-rings were near twice the size of the current 10-rings. They had been that big since the late 1890's to early 1900's. 12" 5-ring at 200 and 300 yards, 20" at 500 or 600, 36" at 800, 900 and 1000 yards.

Along came the 7.62 NATO and its commercial sibling in the early 1960's shooting more accurate producing higher scores (with lots of unbreakable ties) breaking all the records shot with the venerable 30-06. The NRA, in conjunction with the military, reduced the scoring ring sizes to the decimal target 10-ring versions now used.

And now that we get to use optics, do you think they will make the rings smaller again?

 

[Bart B.]

No, not for most NRA high power matches. Optics are only allowed with "any" rifles. Match and service rifles (M1 & M14) must use metallic sights. But the AR15 and M16 service rifles which can use scopes 4.5X maximum.

It's all detailed in the latest rule book.

 

[Varminterror]

We're also only able to use 4x scopes anyway, so I don't believe it's going to revolutionize the scoring paradigm in the same magnitude as the 308win did...

 

[Howard Roark]

Optics are only allowed with "any" rifles.

This is not correct. Both the NRA and CMP allow scopes on Match Rifles without limits on magnification power.

This is covered in the latest CMP rules dated 03/02/17 and the NRA rule changes for 2017.

 

[rskent]

We're also only able to use 4x scopes anyway, so I don't believe it's going to revolutionize the scoring paradigm in the same magnitude as the 308win did...

I don’t think it’s about magnification. For me it’s about consistent sight picture and eye strain.


With irons, myself and most people I know use a + diopter in their rear sight hoods.

Lots of eye strain. Lots of eye drops. About half way through a match my eyes would start to fade.


With a scope, very little eye strain. No eye drops needed. I am still getting used to using a scope,

but so far, for me, the results are very good. I still have my A2 upper but I don’t see it coming out of the

safe any time soon.

 

[Varminterror]

I think it's clear most shooters will favor using an optic instead of irons, and it's clear scores will improve overall/average scores are going to improve because of magnified optics.

But we used optics all last year, and course records weren't set at every match last year simply because dudes got to strap scopes on top. For the best shooters, the difference is a lot smaller than the rest of us.

I've heard a few guys mention the spread in the field shrank, but not many shooters actually changed significantly in ranking - any more than they had year over year prior. So it appears if a guy who shot 20th place last season at the same match added a scope, and the guy who was 5th place last year did not, the previously lower ranked guy didn't suddenly leapfrog to the front of the pack. The previously low ranked guy likely shot his best season average, but it's not gonna let a guy who took 10yrs to earn 6pts suddenly leg out this season because he added a scope and the other guys didn't.

I'll readily admit, I gave up CMP/HP years ago because I outgrew my Blue Sky Garand and wasn't super interested in spending $2500 to build (at that time) a proper M1a. When the field started becoming dominated by AR-15's, it rekindled my interest. I'll admit, I'm a little sad, like everyone, to see the rules coming to a relatively "no holds barred" rulebook for AR's, but at the same time, I think there's a necessity to stop attrition and maybe even regrow the sport by opening the doors a bit. I was personally a little frustrated, after shooting last year on a slick float tube, to see the rulebook require quad rails, but at least it's all open to float tubes across the board now. It's been a pain bouncing between a "NM float tube," going back to real non-floating clamshells, being able to shoot any handguard with a top rail, and now getting shoved back to a quad rail.

 

[Howard Roark]

It's been a pain bouncing between a "NM float tube," going back to real non-floating clamshells, being able to shoot any handguard with a top rail, and now getting shoved back to a quad rail.

You ain't wrong. I'm not playing the cheese grater forearm game. I took an old match rifle flattop upper, put a new SR barrel on it with an old CLE SR forearm to make my new optics SR.

The CMP has done the shooters a huge disservice by publishing three rules changes this year. The NRA is just as bad or worse for moving the nationals away from Perry for 2017. Shooters are caught in between the incompetence of both organizations. It's a pity that the people who are doing this to us are paid employees.