Help from Texas

[SL4SI]

I live in Maryland and March 8 was "gun bill day" we had a good showing on the pro side, the anti's were there of course only 4 of them and 3 were paid lobbyists. When the issue of relaxing our CCW permit requirements came up the pro side made some very good arguments and clearly won but the anti's kept touting Texas as a failure Shall Issue state. Saying that CCW permit holders were commiting crimes at a much higher rate than the average citizen, they were quoting some very high numbers in serious crime. When pressed to show where they obtained the info they were unable to do so. I was able to find 2001 stats on the Texas Department of Public Safety website that showed the anti's were clearly lying, fowarded this info to the delegate that was pressing them to show their source. What I am trying to find are the stats from 1999 to 2004 I only have a week until the Judicial Committee votes on the issue. Anyone that knows who I need to contact or where to find the info please let me know.

 

[Janitor]

One of the reasons you might be having a problem finding stats.

From this article : http://www.wpri.org/WIInterest/Vol11No2/Hein11.2.pdf

Statistics are cited on both sides of the debate. Oftentimes, these statistics are massaged to show certain conclusions. This became such a problem for the Texas Department of Public Safety that many of its concealed carry weapon statistics were taken off its website.

And more from the same article (just happened to really like this bit):

The president of the Dallas Police Association, Glenn White, was a staunch and adamant opponent of the concealed carry weapons bill in Texas, testifying in front of the state senate about the horrible things that were going to happen with the passage of the bill. It passed in the mid-1990s and with it, Glenn White’s opinion of the bill changed completely after a couple of years. “I was wrong. What I thought would take place, didn’t. It hasn’t happened. It just hasn’t happened.” He went on to explain that “even my biggest concerns were unfounded. Only a handful of incidents took place over the years where persons carrying concealed weapons were involved. In those incidences, the gun was used properly in self-defense.” He finished by saying, “it’s a shame that other states don’t use Texas as a model. This is solid
legislation.”

 

[Hawk]

Call this lady's office. I'm not sure, but they may be able to help you out.

 

[CentralTexas]

Actually contact the Texas State Rifle Assoc.
http://www.tsra.com/

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Here is a listing of Texas CHL revocations and suspensions...
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/demographics.htm

For more information....

You can contact the Concealed Handgun Licensing Bureau at :

Concealed Handgun Licensing Bureau
Texas Department of Public Safety
P O Box 4143
Austin, Texas 78765-4143
Phone: (512) 424-7293 or (512) 424-7294
Helpline: (800) 224-5744

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

The short story is that Texas published records of crimes committed by CHL holders until 2000. During that year VPC released a study claiming that Texans with CHLs were more likely to commit crime. They did this by using a number of cheap tricks.

1) They looked at the first six months of concealed carry and claimed CHL holders were arrested for weapons-violation at a rate that was twice that of the normal public.

What was happening is there was considerable confusion in the law over where it was legal to carry amongst both police and CHL holders. Few of those arrested were prosecuted as it was mostly innocent error. VPC doesn't look any further because once legislators and instructors clarified the problem areas, this problem went away.

2) VPC reports arrest rates, not conviction rates

This also relates to the above problem. It took awhile for Texas to get its CHL program well-defined and for awhile there was a higher arrest rate; but not a higher conviction rate. Some of the problems encountered were:

A) exactly what is a church - Texas has some "churches" that include daycare, gyms, continuing education, and even TV studio facilities. The law wasn't very clear about what was and wasn't a church in that situation

B) signage - What type of sign was needed to tell CHL holders they weren't welcome? Was the sign in liquor stores applicable? Would the old "slash through gun" sign stop CHLs? Eventually Texas corrected this by specifying exactly what type of sign was necessary.

3) VPC reports arrests for minor, non-weapon related offenses (burning leaves can be a class C misdemeanor for example) in order to boost the perception of lawlessness.

Here is a nice deconstruction of the VPC study on Texas CHLs:
http://www.mcsm.org/miscreports/txresp.pdf

As a result of that hatchet job, the Texas legislature decided to stop publishing that specific information and now only publishes general categories of revocation. I'd also contact TSRA as they can help you debunk that particular slime job.

 

[Hawk]

BR,

Thanks for the background. I had heard at my CHL class that the VPC hatchet job had been so egregious that it actually prompted a response from the DPS. I didn't have anything specific enough to be helpful.

 

[Shipwreck]

A few years ago, I read that the rate of CCW holders committing crimes was lower than the rate of law enforcement personnel who commit crimes in the state of Texas. That was a few years back - not sure if that is true today.

 

[ball3006]

You have to remember......

an allegation made by a dimocrat/liberal, is gospel truth. Supporting documentation is never required by these people. If the allegation is disputed, what ever data is presented is a lie and will be ignored....chris3

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Thanks for the background. I had heard at my CHL class that the VPC hatchet job had been so egregious that it actually prompted a response from the DPS.

Yeah, DPS was pretty irate at being made to look bad by stat twisting. They immediately changed the format of the reports to the one you see for the 2001 stats. The older variety was more detailed and showed arrest, conviction, type of offense and other information. It also didn't compare it to the general population like the 2001 report did.

 

[SL4SI]

Thanks for all the help. I will be contacting the above stated groups to see if I can work something out.

 

[Art Eatman]

The Florida Department of Law Enforcement (FDLE) has in the past given out press releases about how good-guy the CHL folks are. They have a website; might have stats.

Art

 

[SL4SI]

Thanks for the info, looking them up now.BR hope its ok if I print out your background info to distribute among the local pro groups.

 

[TequilaMockingbird]

an allegation made by a dimocrat/liberal,

Sarah Brady is a Republican. Bill Bennett, who pushed for a ban on "assault weapons" under Bush Sr., is a Republican. Charles Krauthammer, proponent of the AWB, is a Republican.
--------------

Check out An Analysis Of The Arrest Rate Of Texas Concealed Handgun License Holders As Compared To The Arrest Rate Of The Entire Texas Population 1996 - 1998, Revised to include 1999 data by William E. Sturdevant, PE, September 1, 2000

On January 1, 1996, the Texas Concealed Handgun Law went into effect. This law states that the Texas Department of Public Safety (TXDPS) "shall issue" a concealed handgun license (CHL) to any Texas resident who meets the application requirements for character (background check) and training. This is an analysis of arrest data for Texas concealed handgun licensees that was performed on data from the subsequent years of 1996 - 1999. A comparison was made with the arrest data for the entire Texas population for the same time period, showing that, on average: male Texans who are over 21 years old and are not CHL holders are 7.9 times more likely to be arrested for commission of a violent crime than male Texans with a CHL; and female Texans who are over 21 years old and are not CHL holders are 7.5 times more likely to be arrested for commission of a violent crime than female Texans with a CHL. Of the violent crime cases that have been adjudicated, approximately 22% of CHL holders who were arrested were convicted of the crime for which they were arrested; 32% are convicted of a lesser crime; and 46% are cleared of the violent crimes for which they were arrested.