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Help if you live in Ca and know about laws

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gmalfavon1

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Jan 21, 2009
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18
Location
Mesa Az
Okay here's the thing I live in Az and here I could go pretty much out of city limits and go shooting but I'm going to Ca Hayward/Oakland area around 4th of july and I would love to take my grandfather shooting up in the Mountains. So here's my questions

Could I take my pistol(semiauto Ruger P345)and .22 rifle Savage Mk II boltaction from Az to Ca legaly?

Is there any locations you guys would recomend up in Northern California I'd preffer mountain terrain with a lot of greenery (Not a range) with in a few hours 2-4 hours max from Hayward area

Thanks guys
Mike
 
Both weapons are fine - neither is a California 'assault weapon'.

No mags > 10 rounds, but that Ruger came with 8-rounders, so that should be OK.

Don't know about places to shoot. A decent range, in a park near Hayward, is Chabot.
 
You only need to observe the following.

Traveling with Firearms in California
HANDGUNS
California Penal Code section 12025 does not prevent a citizen of the United States over 18 years of age who is not lawfully prohibited from firearm possession, and who resides or is temporarily in California, from transporting by motor vehicle any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person provided the firearm is unloaded and stored in a locked container.

The term "locked container" means a secure container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock, combination lock, or similar locking device. This includes the trunk of a motor vehicle, but does not include the utility or glove compartment. For more information, refer to California Penal Code Section 12026.1.

SHOTGUNS AND RIFLES
Nonconcealable firearms (rifles and shotguns) are not generally covered within the provisions of California Penal Code section 12025 and therefore are not required to be transported in a locked container. However, as with any firearm, nonconcealable firearms must be unloaded while they are being transported. A rifle or shotgun that is defined as an assault weapon pursuant to Penal Code 12276 or 12276.1 must be transported in accordance with Penal Code section 12026.1


California Gun Laws Summary book can be downloaded from this link:

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/Cfl2007.pdf
 
Thanks guys but what I'm really looking for is old fashion shooting cans and and have a cookout after shooting and having a few drinks with familly in the wilderness that's what I think is fun I just need to know a general place in Northern California in the woods where I could do this
 
+1 for checking out the California DOJ wesite posted by Chukpike.

I'm not far from Hayward, but I don't know anywhere around here, or within 2 to 4 hours where you can just go into the woods to shoot.

This is a pretty comprehensive list of places to shoot in the greater San Francisco Bay Area, unless you have a line on someone's private land: http://www.bayprofs.org/Places_to_Shoot_Alphabetic.html
 
Do not have ammo in the same locked box as the guns or loaded magazines. That is considered a loaded firearm in California.

That is not true.

See the CHP link I posted above.

It doesn't hurt to be overly cautious, but the California Highway Patrol says: "Ammunition may be kept in the same container or trunk, but the handgun must remain unloaded with no rounds in the cylinder and no loaded magazines in the magazine well."
 
People v. Clark changed the laws in California. I have a 1994 copy of How to Own a Gun in California (and stay out of jail) that specifically shows that a shell in a buttholder is "loaded". A later edition uses the same picture to illustrate that it is considered "not loaded".

So while it may be legal to carry a magazine with cartridges in it if it's not in the gun, that doesn't make it a good idea. I like to make it as obvious as possible that I have guns and ammo in my car because I'm going to the range and no other purpose.

Getting arrested is no fun, even if your lawyer is eventually able to get you off.
 
JeffF wrote:
Do not have ammo in the same locked box as the guns or loaded
magazines. That is considered a loaded firearm in California.

Jeezus, how come just about every thread about CA gun laws has incorrect info posted by those not in California? And which is often urban legend if not CA bashing?

If you're not a CA resident, or haven't been one for awhile, please pipe down and let informed CA folks with current/correct info report on the situation.

You'll notice that we CA folks don't comment on laws in NY, MD, MA or even 'free states' like AZ or TX - they're sufficiently different that we can't offer informed/correct opinions on details.



Bill Wiese
San Jose CA
 
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You still live in Calif, Bill?

I feel sorry for you. I lived there for 34 years.

I've moved to Oregon. Here you can walk into a gun show and walk out with a gun. They do the instant check.

You can also walk into a gun store and buy a gun and walk out with it. Instant check again.

When you go to a gun show in Oregon they offer for sale machine guns, some with silencers attached. You can also buy a silenced Ruger 10/22 or Mk I. You'll find Tommy guns for sale. They cost an arm and a leg however; like $20,000. They used to be cheap, but that ended with Bill Clinton....(I love that guy!)

When I go to the range around here, Central Oregon; often times there are guys banging away with machine guns. If you walk over to watch they'll invite you to shoot.

It's a piece of cake to get a concealed weapons permit.

I lived in California for a long time and I watched the guns laws as they hardened and made it more difficult to buy and shoot guns. You can still buy them, however; that's true. But the state has taken a lot of the fun out of it.
 
I believe you can plink on BLM land in CA.
http://www.blm.gov/ca/st/en/prog/recreation/hunting.html

I have also heard that a loaded magazine, weather locked in a box separately from the gun or not, is considered a loaded firearm in CA.

CA Penal Code 12031(g)
A firearm shall be deemed to be loaded for the purposes of
this section when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell in, or
attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but not
limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof
attached to the firearm.

From the Sherifs Office:
The majority of offenses involving the carrying of a loaded weapon
fall under 12031 PC. Section 12031(g) defines a weapon as being
loaded when the ammunition is in, or attached to, the firearm. It
specifically provides that a weapon is loaded if there is
ammunition in the firing chamber, magazine or clip. The California
Court of Appeal considered the question of when a weapon is loaded
in the case of People v. Harvey Lee Clark (45 Cal App. 4th 1147).
The defendant had a single-shot shotgun which had no shell in the
chamber. It had a buttstock shell holder which held live rounds.
The court clarified the "attached to" language of 12031(g) holding
that the weapon was unloaded since the rounds could not be fired
from the buttstock holder.

People v. Clark(1996) 45 Cal.App.4th 1147 , 53 Cal.Rptr.2d 99
Under the commonly understood
meaning of the term "loaded," a firearm is"loaded" when a shell
or cartridge has been placed into a position from which it can be
fired; the shotgun is not "loaded" if the shell or cartridge is
stored elsewhere and not yet placed in a firing position.

All of these texts leave ambiguity regarding weather a loaded magazine, not attached to a weapon constitutes a loaded weapon. I believe that a good lawyer could use the precedence set in People V Clark, to argue that it is not a loaded weapon but you will have to be in court to make the argument, which means you've already been arrested.

The People V Clark ruling disagrees with the Sheriff's Office. However, rulings in court do not change Law, they just provide precedence for future rulings. If a Police Officer finds you with a loaded magazine, they will consider the weapon loaded. You may fight that assertion in court using the People V Clark precedence, but that is where you can make your argument. The Police Officer does not have the ability or the right to question the "Law" as he is instructed in it, that ability is left to the court. If you want to make an issue about it, you get to go to court to do so. If you don't want to go to jail/court, keep your mags unloaded.
 
I'd like to see someone take a loaded magazine into court, plop it down on the judge's bench, put their hands in the air and say, "Go ahead - shoot me with that!".
 
For safety's sake,

Simply transport the firearms in a locked container in the trunk, unloaded. Yes, that means you cannot have them available for personal protection. Having rounds in the magazine, in the locked container, is technically not "loaded" but cops don't always know the law. Hell, most of them think that there's a "four-fingers" rule for knives... which there isn't. Being in jail sucks, so you're stuck with adhering to the dumbest possible interpretation of the law, because that's what will end being the opinion of whatever cop you are unfortunate enoguh to encounter. Murphy's Law trumps all human law.

Assault weapons law is pretty clear, except where it isn't. No semi-auto magazines over 10 rounds, except tube-fed rimfires. No AKs. No ARs, except for certain lowers that nobody outside the CA AR community knows about, including cops. No pistol gripped stocks on detachable-magazine semi-auto rifles. No detachable-mag SKSs, regardless of capacity. You do not have to remove the bayonet from your SKS, although most people (and most cops) think that you do.

Such is life, until we can get our laws changed.

As to where to shoot, target shooting is permitted on any land owned by the BLM. You must be 150 feet (maybe yards, I forget) from any road or structure, unless they are on private property and you have the landowner's permission.

Be somewhat careful, as many areas have some weird, and unmarked, boundaries, so that you can be on BLM land (legal to shoot) and then walk a few feet and be on Forest Service land (shooting only allowed in lawful pursuit of birds and mammals), or park land (no shooting at all), or private property (trespassing rules apply). Not to mention the ranchers and landowners who put up fences on public land adjacent to their property or grazing permit land, and post "no hunting or shooting" signs on it.

Leaving your targets behind, or shooting at glass is (a) really jerkish and (b) littering. I was told yesterday by a BLM ranger that, if you're at a "free range", and you shoot at an existing target left by some slob, it becomes "yours", and you're now responsible for packing it out. Whether that's true, and how it could be enforced, I don't know, but that's what the man said.

Contact the BLM and Forest Service ranger district offices for more detailed information about where you can shoot.

Be safe.

Have fun.

Enjoy California. Outside of the cities, which don't really suck any more or any less than other big cities, it's a beautiful state. If you've got the time, take the drive down Highway 1 from Santa Cruz to San Luis Obispo. It's not really describable to anyone who's never driven it.

--Shannon
 
logjam wrote:
You still live in Calif, Bill?

I feel sorry for you. I lived there for 34 years.

I've moved to Oregon. Here you can walk into a gun show and walk out with a gun. They do the instant check.

You can also walk into a gun store and buy a gun and walk out with it. Instant check again.

I feel sorry for you.

I'm staying and fighting.

(BTW I do have family in La Grande and Portland.)

The road to full RKBA realization will run thru CA and Washington DC.

Your RKBA will be protected by actions going on in California right now. (Oregon's RKBA in their constitution may not mean too much as it turns out. Don Kates has written quite a bit on this. If your demographics skew more over time toward excess weigting the Portland metro area and coastal areas etc. you could see some real issues. Oh, we hear about Ginny Burdick even down here!)

I own 40+ guns including many "AWs" and a ton of hicap mags shoot & travel with them regularly. I've stuck around to fight, and I've been part of the team helping shoot holes in the AW laws (100K+ new ARs and AKs in California, starting Dec 2005) and am helping shoot holes in the 'safe handgun' laws. They'll all be coming down or vastly reduced in force (i.e, readily bypassable if not eliminated) here in a coupla years.,

With Heller and an expected victory to some extent in Nordyke every CA gun law becomes an albatross to the opposition in maintaining gun control because it offers multiple fronts on which to attack.

New gun laws are DOA now in CA given budget fiascos in combination w/every new gun law having to have "unknown costs anticipated from expected extensive litigation" due to Heller, etc. - killing them in committee.

Good jobs are still here in CA, Silicon Valley is still steaming. We have great weather. I can drive up to SF and hear one of the world's best symphonies. We have great restaurants and universities. There's also fewer Bible-thumpers down here.


Bill Wiese
San Jose CA
 
The People V Clark ruling disagrees with the Sheriff's Office. However, rulings in court do not change Law, they just provide precedence for future rulings. If a Police Officer finds you with a loaded magazine, they will consider the weapon loaded. You may fight that assertion in court using the People V Clark precedence, but that is where you can make your argument. The Police Officer does not have the ability or the right to question the "Law" as he is instructed in it, that ability is left to the court. If you want to make an issue about it, you get to go to court to do so. If you don't want to go to jail/court, keep your mags unloaded.

Actually, the Sheriff quote you provide agrees with Clark.

Case law is in fact law; court decisions modify 'black letter' law, so Clark modifies PC12031(g) to something the court thinks is more reasonable.

You're right, of course, that one can still be arrested - thus my comment earlier on poorly trained LEO. LA Sheriff's Office and San Diego PD have both recently released training bulletins for their officers regarding 'unloaded open carry'. Both of those squarely tell their staffs that possession of a loaded magazine, not in the gun, does NOT make the gun loaded, and both cite Clark.

ETA: just ran across the similar training bulletin from Orange County SO (Rotten PDF won't let me cut and paste):
Bottom line: ... the person may not be arrested for violating PC 12031 if ammunition is not in nor attached to the weapon so as to allow it to be fired, even though the person may have access to matching ammunition.
 
Last edited:
BLM and US Forest Service Land. Not the same as National Parks.

CA Penal Code 12031(g)

Quote:
A firearm shall be deemed to be loaded for the purposes of
this section when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell in, or
attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but not
limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof
attached to the firearm.

Not that ambiguous. A magazine not attached to a gun does not equal a loaded gun.

People interested in California gun laws need only go directly to California State Bureau of Firearms website to see the laws:

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/

In doing research, I have found it more difficult to find gun laws for some states when searching states data bases. It seems some states would prefer you to buy a copy of their gun laws, which is sick since it is a public record.
 
Bill Weiss: I didn't mean to infer that you are cowardly for staying in CA and fighting the good fight. I did that for about 30 years and finally decided that the weight of the law and Liberalism that runs that state made success implausible.

Of course, Oregon is ruled by Looney Liberals too and I am waiting for our relatively free gun laws to harden up. Things are getting worse here.

Your relatives who live in Portland swim in a sea of Liberalism, that town also dominates elections because so much of the population is there, but Portland is very different from much of the rest of the state.

Other nice things about Central Oregon: Many people shoot. The newspaper has a hunting/fishing section. Three hundred thousand hold CW permits.

You can buy SKS's and AK's without any special permit. No prob with high cap magazines. You can even shoot belt fed guns here.

No sales tax. Where I lived in Napa County CA the sales tax was constantly being ratchetted up. Cost to register your car here, is $52 for two years. Used to be $32, but as I said, Liberals run the show here, and they tax at all costs. Gas is 35 cents a gallon cheaper here than in Calif...that's as of a week ago, as I was near Susanville then.

You go to a camp ground here and it's usually either empty or nearly so. No crowds on the lakes. Good fishing too. I just drove 200 miles across the bottom of the state. I passed ten cars.....yep an Oregon Traffic Jam.

We have wonderful snowy winters here and nice, but short summers. The place smells like Christmas all of the time.

Lots of bird hunting. Elk all over the place; and deer too.

When I go back to Calif I shutter at the traffic and the crowds. People drive so fast! Here the speed limit is 55 almost everywhere. After driving in Calif, we feel like we are crawling when we return to OR.

Sure you love where you live and that's how it should be, it's also a human thing to do. You'll fight for good old California and that shows loyality. But just between you and me, the place makes me sick.
 
Logjam,
Nice PR job for Oregon. I agree will basically all you said. Sure would be nice to get a handle on the Portland loonies before they get worse!

What area are you in? Sounds a lot like my neighborhood. I'm in Bend.

JB
 
Hell with guns, I didn't see too many other reasons to stay in California, any more. And I didn't live in San Jose, either, a place I'm not sure I'd willingly move to for any amount of money.

But I'm glad you're fighting, Bill. Thank you, in all seriousness.
 
Hey, I grew up in Kali, Santa Freakin' Kruz. Stay away! Buncha LIB nut jobs for sure. Nice cold salty waves but otherwise a bunch of entitled .............
 
In doing research, I have found it more difficult to find gun laws for some states when searching states data bases. It seems some states would prefer you to buy a copy of their gun laws, which is sick since it is a public record.

A good central link page for State resources is
http://www.findlaw.com/11stategov/index.html

and
http://municipalcodes.lexisnexis.com/
has a lot of county and city codes on line for free.

But it's true that a few states are apparently a bit odd about access to their laws.
 
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