Help me identify and value this 1911 please

[leadcounsel]

I know little about 1911s, so please help me as much as possible.

I do know it's a Springfield 1911 A1 .45. Seller claims it to be in excellent and clean condition, seller says they are blued and the bluing is in good condition.

It appears to be a mil spec, but not even sure.

Could it be this gun? http://www.springfield-armory.com/prod-pstl-1911-ms.shtml

 

[Retro]

Looks like an old SA 1911 Mil-spec with a horribly installed after-market rear adjustable sight (and front sight, it seemed).

The grips are add-on, and you can find similar grips on a Kimber Det-1 earlier model:

http://www.specwargear.com/images/weapon-ICQB pistol-1.jpg

How much is the seller selling it for.

Edit: value-wise, a new mil-spec is around $550 + tax, and rear adjustable sight is around 60-100. Given the condition of the gun, the poor sight installation job. I won't pay more than $350 + tax.

 

[Rexrider]

Looks like a GI Mil-spec. It does not have the lowered ejection port.

Retro is right about the sights and grip. Both are aftermarket. The sights appear to be Millets. I don't think they are installed wrong, that is how Millets sit, very high. Regardless, I really don't care for them.

Retro also pointed out the price of a Mil-spec is around $550. Well, it gets worse, a GI Mil-spec is around $450 (+ or -). So that is your price point you need to consider when looking at this one.

Peronsally, I would offer $250 max...take it or leave it. Assuming you really wanted it. Too many other options out there.

Please keep in mind this was strickly my opinion based on the pictures provided.

 

[Rexrider]

Correction: Looking at the 2nd picture, it might be a Mil-spec (not the GI). It is hard to tell if the ejection port is flaired at that angle. However the groves cut into the slide are angled. The GI's groves would be straight up and down.

Still....I would be curious what the seller is asking for it.

ETA: Don't let the seller talk up the price because of the aftermarket sights. To me they lower the value. I still stick by my offer of $250 (if I was making the offer).

 

[GoRon]

Get the serial number and call Springfield, they can tell you how old it is.

Those look like Pachmayr grips.

How many rounds through it and how much kitchen table gun smithing has been done?

The lifetime warranty is still good if it hasn't been monkeyed with too badly.

 

[Retro]

yeah, it is very difficult to tell without a close shot to the ejection port, and there is a chance that is it a GI although the color is typically Mil-Spec.

I had a new SA 1911 GI purchased for $600 total, and when I traded it in 5 months later in crisp brand new condition, I was only offered $335 for the trade-in... I had to think about it before going ahead with the trade because that GI gun had problems with extraction.

Given the condition of that gun, trade-in will probably fetch only $200-225 at most, and it will probably retail for $300-350 at the gunstore. So I would pay somewhere between $ 200-300 for that piece.

And always ask why the seller is selling it, and sometimes they may not tell you the truth, but it is always good to ask regardless because they might tell you the truth.

 

[MICHAEL T]

Since you not really up om 1911's I suggest you take you money and invest in a new one. This way you have a warrenty and no one has done kitchen gunsmithing. You can't see inside that one might have been tinkered with, We know the sights and Pac grips but what else.
Will cost you a little more at start but be better in long run.

 

[leadcounsel]

Well, here's the deal on the price (which many of you inquired about)....

I'm moving locally and I have a washer and dryer that I won't be needing which are worth somewhere around $400. I posted them for sale or trade in a local ad. I've had other cash offers for less than $400 but the .45, if in good shape as the seller stated, seems like the most appealing offer.

The seller of this gun contacted me for a trade straight up. He got the .45 used from a local shop. He's fired only one box through it 4 years ago, didn't clean it, and doesn't want it any longer. He does want a washer and dryer.

So...

Would you make the trade?

 

[XavierBreath]

It appears to me to be an older Springfield Mil-Spec (not a GI45) with bullseye sights. The real question is whether other work has been done, and if so, by who?

I suspect no further work has been done, and the sights were installed by the owner. If I am correct, then this pistol is worth about $300 or so retail. For that money, assuming it shoots reliably, I might buy it, send the slide to Novaks for a sight installation, and replace the grips with a style I liked better. The result would be a nice shooter.

For a washer and dryer that I didn't want to move? Yeah, I'd make the trade.

A used dryer goes for under $100, a used washer can be had for $125. Make the trade.

Shoot the pistol first to insure it's reliable.

 

[ddj8052]

A used dryer goes for under $100, a used washer can be had for $125. Make the trade.

+1

I would make the trade in a hart beat. That is after I thoroughly inspected the pistol and made sure that it was in good working order.

 

[OnTarget1911]

Looks like an older SA that could have been worked over for Bullseye shooting. They used to mount the Bo-Mars as far to the rear as they could and then use a ramped front sight. I have included a pic here of a gun that I just got in the shop for work that is of the same genre of this gun. If you look, they are very similar in setup. Your price seems about right. Bear in mind that you will have to pay someone to put a proper set of sights on there and that won't be cheap. The rear dovetail will need to be corrected and a new dovetail front put on, so you are looking at $200 in sight work. If the rest of the gun is in good shape, then I would not go over $300. If you really shop you can get a new Mil-Spec or plain SA GI for a tick over $400.

Jess

 

[leadcounsel]

Update:

First, thank you all for your knowledge and insight. I was estimating that the trade would be fair to both parties and neither walking away feeling cheated, based on the information I had. Everything I've read supports that conclusion thus far.

However I haven't seen the gun yet. We have agreed to trade contingent on inspecting merchandise.

I figure best case scenario I get a quality Springfield .45 worth $400+ retail. Since I don't own one, but have thought about a quality inexpensive 1911 for some time, it might be a good place to start. Worst case, it'll sell or trade for another gun easier than a washer and dryer and is more portable and probably equally as valuable.

Seller seems to know almost zero about guns. He is a business man and bought this from a private investigation firm, used, during a time he felt he needed a handgun. He shot 1/2 of box through it when he got it, put it away and never shot it again 4 years ago, and never cleaned the gun either (makes me wonder why he says the gun is "clean").

He says he also has a shotgun so doesn't feel the need to keep or carry this gun any longer, but does need the washer/dryer. Also mentioned that if he were to get another gun it would be a .357 magnum. He didn't elaborate.

It's quite possible that he took it in to a gunstore for a valuation for a trade, if indeed he's after a .357, and got a lowball figure. But any sensible person would have cleaned the gun prior to taking it in. OR, maybe not or maybe he doesn't have a cleaning kit or even know how to clean it...

PS- he's also giving me the holster and his original 1/2 box of HP ammo... and I'll see if he has a cleaning kit to throw in too. Anyone recognize the holster? Looks to be a decent leather IWB.

 

[Ala Dan]

Like my friend Micheal T has pointed out already, "if I wanted a
Springfield MIL-SPEC with the lowered and flared ejection port; heck I
would buy a new one". They come with pretty good 3-dot sights, and
the new ones even have a beautiful set of cocobolo "crossed canon"
Springfield Armory logo grips~!

 

[SouthpawShootr]

The holster is reminiscent of a Desantis IWB (similar to this: www.holster.com/028.html ). Whether it actually is or not is another matter. It may be a local job. At any rate it's in serviceable but very well-worn condition and is worth exactly nothing. See this sort of thing at gunshows for $5. It really doesn't fit the gun properly. Looks like it was made for a Commander sized gun. The grips are Pachmayr and nothing to write home about. I had them on my Colt and they wore the bluing pretty well under the grips (something I haven't been able to duplicate on other Colts I have with wood grips. Those sights look to be Millet. Again serviceable but not anything outstanding. I have a set of Bomars on my Government model mounted in exactly the same way as OnTarget1911 shows in his picture. Not nearly as nice as the same sight properly mounted but the better sights did turn the gun into a tack driver. I'm thinking of getting them properly mounted before much longer. Field strip it before you take it and make sure there's no obvious home gunsmithing done here.

 

[Retro]

It always sickens me when the seller tells you that he's only put ONE box of ammo through it... Because that is never the case...

 

[leadcounsel]

Update:

First, thank you all for your knowledge and insight. I was estimating that the trade would be fair to both parties and neither walking away feeling cheated, based on the information I had. Everything I've read supports that conclusion thus far.

However I haven't seen the gun yet. We have agreed to trade contingent on inspecting merchandise. I plan to inspect the gun. I don't foresee taking it to a gun dealer, but possibly. I can probably determine the physical condition of the gun but I won't have an opportunity to shoot it first. I think I'll try racking shells through the slide be helpful to ensure that it ejects smoothly and chambers smoothly.

I figure best case scenario I get a quality Springfield .45 worth $400+ retail. Since I don't own one, but have thought about a quality inexpensive 1911 for some time, it might be a good place to start. Worst case, it'll sell or trade for another gun easier than a washer and dryer and is more portable and probably equally as valuable.

Seller seems to know almost zero about guns. He is a business man and bought this from a private investigation firm, used, during a time he felt he needed a handgun. He shot 1/2 of box through it when he got it, but it away and never shot it again 4 years ago, and never cleaned the gun either (makes me wonder why he says the gun is "clean").

He says he also has a shotgun so doesn't feel the need to keep or carry this gun any longer, but does need the washer/dryer. Also mentioned that if he were to get another gun it would be a .357 magnum. He didn't elaborate.

He's also giving me the holster and his original 1/2 box of HP ammo...

Assuming the gun has been fired alittle 4 years ago and never cleaned, in the dry Colorado climate, what is the realistic effect on the condition?

 

[Technosavant]

Unless he was shooting corrosive ammo (HIGHLY doubtful; I would bet a fair amount of money against it being such), there shouldn't be any long term issues. I would expect to spend some time cleaning and oiling it- there might be difficult to remove grime.

I would want to (at the very least) inspect it personally before giving a go-ahead.

One question you may want to ask yourself: would I still consider this trade if 1) I am going to put new sights on it, or 2) the barrel will need replacement? If the frame and slide appear to be in good condition (the feed ramp is in good shape, no peening on the lugs), if nothing else you will have a gun that you can work into a fantastic range or carry gun.

 

[SouthpawShootr]

never cleaned the gun either (makes me wonder why he says the gun is "clean")

Probably means the legal background on the gun. As in it hasn't been reported stolen or used in a crime.

 

[leadcounsel]

Update

Seller of the 1911 and I conducted the trade. The gun was filthy with caked on grime. It cycled through a 7 round magazine of jhps smoothly and had no visible damage, so I felt good with the trade and we went forward.

I striped it down and even took out the firing pin and extractor. All were very grimey. I soaked and cleaned each piece thoroughly. It's a very nice looking gun with no damage to the bluing to speak of; not even the "dummy" disassembly area.

I haven't shot the gun yet. After cleaning it it cycles through jhps very well, but seems to fail to feed fmj reliably. It even pushed one of the bullets into the casing.

Any suggestions on solving this problem? Will this problem correct itself with actual range shooting?

Thanks.

 

[XavierBreath]

It looks like your pistol might be set up as a hardball gun for target shooting. Before you do anything, shoot the pistol with your JHP of choice; see how it feeds with the pistol doing the work. You might be surprised.

The path of a 1911 cartridge includes a bump and a bounce as it nears the chamber. This is frequently only accomplished reliably through shooting the pistol. This is also why you have setback on one or more of your cartridges now. Throw those cartridges into a can of automatic transmission fluid and destroy them. Once set back, a cartridge is dangerous to use.

If the pistol will not reliably feed JHP while shooting, try a Wilson Combat 47D magazine. Yeah, they are expensive. the thing is, they hold the cartridge a little more in line with the chamber. If that does not get it, you might want to get a good gunsmith to port the chamber for you. Expect to pay around $75-100. If you want a tad more accuracy, you might just go ahead and put in a new barrel and bushing to gain better feeding and more accracy at the same time.

Welcome to the 1911!

 

[leadcounsel]

Oh, here's a picture. The other side is as nice, but the serial is clearly visible so I'll decline posting it online.

I was very happy about the trade and can't wait to shoot it.

 

[SouthpawShootr]

You could always remove the serial number from the picture using the MS Paint program included with every copy of Windows. Just use the select tool, block off the SN, press delete, save it, and post it (if you want to). From what you've posted and your photo, looks like a pretty good to excellent deal. Of course, those Pachmayrs would be the first thing to go, if it were mine.

 

[leadcounsel]

Okay, the serial has been removed from the picture. Safe to post. Here is the other side of the gun.

Not sure what, if any modifications to make. Need to shoot it first before dumping $ into it.

 

[SouthpawShootr]

My own preference is the original 1911. None of that A1 stuff. I generally put a flat mainspring housing and a long trigger in mine (if they didn't already come that way). I've modified 2 of my Colts with Wilson's drop-in (sorta) beavertail gripsafety (which requires not modification to the frame and look every bit as nice as a factory beavertail). I prefer the Commander-style ring hammers, but skeletonized seems to be the in-fashion these days. I can either take or leave extended thumb safeties, although they are pretty nice. You should go shoot the heck out of it. That will give you ideas of some things you like, some you don't. If you find a good local gunsmith, you can customize as you go. Add fitted parts here and there to suit your tastes.

 

[leadcounsel]

If anything, I think the beavertail would be first to be changed. And I don't care for the sights, but they're okay. I do like the extended thumb safeties. Indifferent about the hammer. Trigger seems very light and smooth for dryfiring. Oh, and I don't like the grips much.

Realistically, unless I fall in love with the 1911, I doubt I'll spend much on it.

What "home gunsmithing" can I do, as I'm pretty handy? Which of the following requires a gunsmith and what approx price range could I expect?
Beavertail?
Sights?
Hammer?
Grips?
Thumb safety?
Trigger?