Help us test a polymer AR-15 Lower

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My questions on a polymer lower are durability. A quality polymer lower, with metal take down pins, and a mostly metal FCG, I might show some interest, depending on price.

A very high round count shooting 6.8SPC or the 6.5 Grendal would be a good test.

You say quality parts, can you say which ones? And what model stock would be offered at the $100 price?

I have a PC polymer lower. It worked with no problems in my 5.56 gun. I don't care for it. Personal feelings, taste, whatever. I am keeping mine to one day build a fun .22 AR.

I can't say anything bad about the PC lower. I just like aluminum. Some really solid testing with calibers bigger than the 5.56 might make me think about a polymer lower in the future.
 
Where are the $99 complete polymer lowers? I just checked the New Frontier website and they are $130.

http://newfrontierarmory.com/catalo...oduct_info&cPath=91_1_134_135&products_id=312

I have no personal experience with Plum Crazy polymer lowers. I'd like to try one at some point. As far as flexing - I don't think the AR design puts a lot of the recoil energy through the body or grip of the lower. As long as the stock and where it attaches is solid it should be fine.

I think there have been many fine polymer pistols and rifles. I have a FS2000, which I love, that has a lot of polymer in it (including the FCG). I have no problems dropping prone on it but would probably not throw it, or my Aimpoint, out of a helicopter (like in the DD video) - I don't have the money to get another! I've read about tons of people doing 3-gun with Cavarms lowers so a functional polymer lower AR pattern rifle is not outside of the realm of reality.

Back on topic, I'll second the folks' opinions who would like to see 3-gun type testing more than mere high round counts. I'd do lots of butt-swipes of punching bags, drop prone on them, roll around in the dirt with them. Drop them while running. Things like that.

If it can stand up, I think a Plum Crazy lower with a budget priced, light weight upper would be a good combo and very marketable.
 
Boomie, Cav Arms lowers rock because the two weak spots (where things bolt on to a normal lower) are molded in. I would put a Cav Arms lower up against anything.
 
Fatcat said:
Boomie, Cav Arms lowers rock because the two weak spots (where things bolt on to a normal lower) are molded in. I would put a Cav Arms lower up against anything.
Click to expand...

Oh, I get that. I guess what I was saying is that I have no personal experience with Plum Crazy lowers (good or bad) but that I wouldn't discount them just because they are polymer or because they have a polymer FCG. I think butt swiping a punching bag, maybe swinging them over your head by the barrel into the ground (like chopping wood), maybe pin it to a bat and go to a batting cage - whatever would stress where the stock screws in (and where people seem to suspect they are weakest). Of course I'd want to see it done with an aluminum lower too. :D
 
I'll help. I have a few cav lowers that have had my 458 socom upper on them without problems. Maybe someone with a 50 BMG upper can see if it will come apart.
 
Sorry, I haven't read all the responses yet, but you should make some videos of clearing jams (slamming the butt stock on the pavement while holding the charging handle. That would be a good one.
 
why dont you try a drop test from different heights and in different environments. i also sugggest trying to shoot 10k rounds in one go.
 
3-gun... where I go shoot 3-gun there is a big sign that says it is a "REALITY CHECK" for your weapons... and it's true... I can shoot hundreds of rounds at a shooting range at clays or paper without a single hiccup... but once you are going against: yourself, everyone else around you and a timer... stuff starts falling apart... jamming... etc... I'd love to test some of your stuff... would you be able to do custom serial #'s... I'd be interested in that too...
also, I carry and love my Glock 23... I have no issue with the lower part made of plastic... it freaks people out who haven't seen a Glock when I take it apart to show them how light it is... it would be interesting to see an AR or other Evil Black Rifle in plastic... but why are the uppers in Glocks made of metal? as opposed to it being a full plastic gun?
I'm sure there must be some pieces like the bolt made of metal in the plastic ARs you make? right?
also do your plastic ARs eat anykind of ammo... like the steel cased Russian cheapo stuff I love to shoot or just brass cased stuff? Johnny
 
Thanks for a lot of great ideas guys, and feel free to keep them coming.

The product will be out and ready to demo around mid January. I think I've found a few "devils advocates" here that I can send some free demo lowers out to to get them knocked around a bit.

I'm glad I stumbled upon the thread that brought me here!!

And for the mod that thought I was trolling....I've contacted site admin to inquire about becoming a site sponsor already, just so you know I wasn't trying to "dine and dash". :)
 
I really hope you come out with a good product. I implore you not to put out a "good enough" product. If you are going to make it then please make it to the highest quality possible. I have no doubt a good polymer AR lower can be produced. But there hasn't been any made yet.
 
I am running a couple Plum Crazy lowers and they are fine so far. I am not a high volume shooter and don't roll around in the woods playing war games.

One concern I have is the strain on the hindge area if the upper is allowed to fall downward freely. This puts a strain on the hindge , and might be a good test.

Now someone needs to build a complete upper for $300.00 or less .
 
I have a Colt 6920, I'd be happy to run your lower on my upper and see how it goes.

If NOT, I shoot with Gus March-October and we can compare a 'stock' 6920 (I have a different flashhider and pistol grip, that's it) against your complete lower match for match. Round count for round count so to speak.

I'm definitely interested in a 'complete lower' as a test bed for a 22cal CMMG upper I have. At a $100 ish price point for a complete one I'd definitely be willing to buy one.

(And until clicking that link I thought we were talking about something other than Plum Crazy.)
 
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Come on guys, if a polymer lower is lighter than an aluminum lower and can withstand the same kind of abuse as a high-end AR, wouldn't you think it would be significantly MORE expensive rather than less expensive?

This lower is on the market at about 1/2-1/3 the cost of a "standard" complete lower. 1/2 the price and all the performance? If that is true then these will soon be on a 6-month backorder.

Probably not true, I am also worried about the buffer tube threads and pin holes. But if it is reliable and durable enough for your average range toy use, its still a hell of a deal.

I don't own one of these lowers, nor do I have any affiliation with the manufacturer or anyone selling them. But I think that everyone criticizing a new and fairly innovative product because it MIGHT not meet the standards of a Colt with 50 years of development is a little harsh.

I for one would like to get one of these lowers along with a carbon .22lr dedicated upper and make an inexpensive and lightweight fun gun for new shooters.
 
Depending on what tax time looks like, I'm going to be in the market for a new rifle. For the time being, I'm kicking around between an SKS, a Saiga in sporter config (with full conversion coming later on) and a budget AR.

If I choose the budget AR, the Polymer lower has the advantage of price in it's favor. As I'm not a 10k rounds a month shooter, I don't see why a poly lower wouldn't hold up to the light abuse I'd foresee putting it through. However, with the AR market flooded, and prices falling, the polymer lower has a long way to go to convince me it's a better buy than a different budget AR, like say the S&W M&P 15 sport. When an on sale M&P can cost as little as $600, the price point of the polymer lower starts to sink. Sure, Plum Crazy and now New Frontier offer complete lowers for about $100 when they are on sale, but what about uppers? An average upper with few frills is going to cost $350 easy. Is the $150 overall savings really worth it?

I'm intrigued by the polymer lower, but it it comes down to spending $450 on a bare bones unproven poly AR versus $350 for a sporter Saiga made to the same specs as the military model AK, then it isn't much of a decision. I'll save the money and get what's tried and true. I'm intrigued, but far from convinced and parsecs from being sold on the idea.
 
The price will have much to do with the acceptance. Two Plumcrazy lowers for the price of one complete lower sold all over the Internet was a deciding factor for me (there is a thread about the purchase and discussion of their merits).. I am not a big fan of polymer anything but the two PC lowers I placed on .22 uppers has been a great success for my purposes. Good luck and hope the endeavor works well for you.
 
I'm fully satisfied my MY HK UMP/USC conversion. They key though is that it has a metal skeleton at key points. I think doing the same for a polymer AR lower could result in a fine product.

What type of "plastic" are these made of? Is it the same as is used in any existing firearms such as glocks, HK UMPs, etc?
 
essayons21 said:
Come on guys, if a polymer lower is lighter than an aluminum lower and can withstand the same kind of abuse as a high-end AR, wouldn't you think it would be significantly MORE expensive rather than less expensive?

This lower is on the market at about 1/2-1/3 the cost of a "standard" complete lower. 1/2 the price and all the performance? If that is true then these will soon be on a 6-month backorder.

Probably not true, I am also worried about the buffer tube threads and pin holes. But if it is reliable and durable enough for your average range toy use, its still a hell of a deal.

I don't own one of these lowers, nor do I have any affiliation with the manufacturer or anyone selling them. But I think that everyone criticizing a new and fairly innovative product because it MIGHT not meet the standards of a Colt with 50 years of development is a little harsh.

I for one would like to get one of these lowers along with a carbon .22lr dedicated upper and make an inexpensive and lightweight fun gun for new shooters.
Click to expand...

Alot goes into building an AL lower. It's amazing they are as cheap as they are. A polymer lower gets pooped out of a molding machine, ream the pivot holes good, thread the buffer tube mount, and call it a day.

Polymer should be cheaper to produce than a forged then machined lower.
 
The polymer FCG is just terrible, replace the polymer LPK and compare the polymer LPK lower with the non-polymer LPK. I'll take aluminum in most cases, but if I were to build an ultra-light AR-15 I might hunt down a Cavalry Arms. The PC's just need non-plastic LPK's in them, along with reinforcement at key points. I don't doubt polymer, I doubt polymer without reinforcement. I love my polymer handguns.
 
polymer

Polymer for polymer's sake won't sell a product. What are the advantages of your product? Sell me on it over a 65 buck delaware machine forged lower. I own a keltec su16c so i have a polymer rifle. Who is your target market, who are you competing with?

Test that i would like seen done on video. Hot and cold weather tests. I'm also curious to see how the lower would respond to repeated cycles of cold, hot, cold.

For other tests i'd go crazy. Send the lowers to fps russia, and military arms channel. that will get you some sales. If you want your product on t.v. send a couple to red jacket firearms.

Send me a lower and i'll send you marketing plan.
 
Do these have the same magwell area as a Cav Arms lower? I'm thinking about a .45acp carbine that runs on Grease Gun mags (cheap 30rd .45 mags!) and they fit in the Cav Arms lowers (apparently) but not in almost any metal upper.
 
Cecil, we have a pretty good marketing plan (we believe) and will be rolling it out more and more as it gets closer to release.

Our target market is people like you. Who own a Delaware machine lower and a Kel-Tec and realize that both will shoot at the range just fine even though they're not the best thing out there.

To sell you over a $65 forged stripped lower, we're going to sell you a COMPLETE lower ready to snap on to an upper for only $99.
 
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