Help with gang activity!

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A good starting point for anti-gang strategy:

"They should have those guys in every major city"

But thats the course of action you do before you go and create papertrails:neener:





^^hypothetical/humorous intent only:cool: :evil: ^^
 
After reading all the responses to this topic I have seen a lot of great advice. The only thing I have to say is that arming your son with some form of non-lethal defense is a bad idea. If these thugs are really gang related, or seriously pretending to be, macing or stunning them is not going to spread the word that your kid can defend himself. All it will do is create a reason for them to retaliate. The last thing your kid needs is to be ambushed by a group of angry punks whom he embarrassed the day before. Continue on your legal route, raise awareness in the community, and have your son avoid any conflict whenever possible until you can hopefully get the problem cleared up. Best of luck to you and yours.
 
Do all you personally can to protect yourself and your son

Many have offered some great advice on this thread. I especially appreciated the mention of considering the walkie-talkie-type phone and the GPS so that your son can communicate immediately his whereabouts if a problem arises.

I recently purchased Dial 911 and Die, and to say the least, I was absolutely shocked at what I discovered in the book. The public, for the most part, has been led to believe that the police or ambulance are just a 911 call away. According to the documentation in Dial 911 and Die, there are serious problems with thinking that the police are 'required' to respond to your call for help in a timely manner, and if they happen to fail to respond, for any variety of reasons (some good and some not so good, like negligence), you will have little to no legal recourse. The book is shocking to say the least.

I do appreciate 911 and all that the service can offer. I appreciate the thought of restraining orders, etc., but those are only as good as the police who are putting them into effect. If they don't, too bad.

I do not want to sound so pessimistic, maybe realistic is how I think now, but you better do all that you personally can to protect yourself and your son.

Thanks for keeping us posted on your results.
 
Edgeofthewoods

No such thing as a wannabe. They are gonnabes. Deciding you're a gang makes you a gang. Support from an established set can bring money, weapons, guidance, or other support, but two friends loyal to each other can bring you hell.
 
There are no easy answers to your dilemna. At least you are making an effort to address the problem. That is far more than many parents who want to play ostrich. Jump through all the hoops, follow all the recommended procedures. They may actually work. You could find the problem dissolving in response to pressure. Or it may not. If that is the case have a plan B in place.

A number of years ago when my two girls were not even in school yet, the neighborhood we lived in had a teenage boy who was a wannabe/gonnabe.
He was loud, abusive and threatening. He believed that as a relatively large young male he "ruled the neighborhood". He made the mistake one day of
yelling at my wife. She informed me of his verbal abuse. The next time I saw him I informed him that he had overstepped the bounds of polite society.
He of course accepted the challenge and specifically threatened the health and welfare of my wife and daughters. He was well known to the local authorities at that time and their response to my call was the predictable,
"yes, we know all about him but we really can't do much unless he actually does something".

Two days later I got home very late from work one night. He was outside
by himself. That was his mistake. I cornered him, took him down and choked him to the verge of "lights out". I then informed him that if anything ever happened to my wife, my kids, my house, my cars or anything else I owned
that I would pay him a repeat visit. I also informed him that the Great Basin Desert is an enormous place and that the odds of his body ever being found would be minimal at best. I made sure he was aware that no amount of "backup" or "buddies" that he might have could guarantee that he was out of my reach. I never had a problem with him after that.

Would such an approach work for you? Can't say for sure. What I can say
is that these types really do understand force. When presented with a credible threat they believe. But you have to be credible. I was fully prepared to make that young miscreant disappear if he harmed my family and I made sure he knew that fact.

Sometimes violence is the only language some people speak. We must be prepared to speak to them if necessary.
 
Xray,
I also have a couple stories like that, 1 of my dad which I will not speak for him on but lets just say it left quite the impression on me and that punk in the neighborhood and also a couple of my own which would be considered "bloodlust" here I guess. I have had a couple run-ins with gangs here down here and it is very nerve racking. The bad part is there is nothing you can do to get rid of them here. They are too imbedded.
I can say that meeting force with force has worked for me but not sure I would put my family in harm's way nowadays (older and wiser).
 
A few months back at night there was severe tire squealing followed by sirens.
Went by the house and a few seconds later it stopped.
Going outside saw the blue lites down the street and the police yelling to get out.

Turned out to be a gang of 12 to 16 year old kids who stole a car. Three bailed in the neighborhood.

1/2 hour later my dog goes nuts indicating something outside.

Out to investigate, 3 kids about 14 hiding by the truck. When instructed to leave they came to the sidewalk and stood there claiming the sidewalk was not my yard and I couldn't make them leave.

The biggest called me every name in the book including an old man, which really pissed me off.
They stood their ground to my surprise.

I yelled to the wife to let Remmy(short for remington) out the door.
She ran to my side and sat facing the kids.

The site of a german shepard/bull dog mix even at night startled them but the biggest wouldn't move.

I gave her a command that starts her growling with the teeth showing.
Then I told the kid the next command I would give the dog would be to grab onto his throat and rip it from his head.

At which point they turned and ran.

While watching them disapear, a cop car pulls up asking if I saw 3 kids, I point to a trail into some woods and said thru there a minute ago.

Cop said to be careful that they were gang mambers and suspected to be armed. Bailed out of the car they stopped down the street, which I had already knew from a neighbor who called.

Cops got them after the K9 arrived. Paraded them down the street in cuffs back to the scene. They had no weapons.

It seems these kids did not respond to anything but threats of violence.

Violence from my dog and violence of the K9 being released into the woods.
 
A lot of good advice. Get the whole town in on it.

Keep in mind a few things though.

First off make sure your son knows there is no such thing as a fair fight.
No punks go around thinking...

"Hey, I doubt I can beat that guy one on one so I'm going to start a fight with him".

They only fight if they have the numbers, weapons, or size to win. No need
for your son to fight fair if it comes down to it. Bite, gouge, and go for the fruits.

Second.... as one poster said it usually goes to the ground. Being on the
ground is the last place he wants to be. One on one thats fine but he would
get the crap stomped out of him by being out-numbered.

Lastly.... unless he is real fast, running is not always the best idea. Being
taken down from behind is no fun and puts you in a very bad position.

A bad situation all around.
 
Gang Activity

Without reading all the previous 80 something post, my .02 worth. Try and document every incent with either the police and/or the school system. You really need to create a "PAPER TRAIL" and document everything with the school board and local LEO's. Creating liability is sometimes the only way to make them take you seriously and devote enough manpower to cause a change.

Being in a smaller community should really work to your advantage in this situation, especially when appealing to as many local community groups on behalf of the children and their protection. There are state and federal laws in place to help discourage against organized gang activity, use it. Zero tolerance is the only way to exert enough pressure on these "wannabe's" to make them realize that this course of action and activity is not worth the trouble.
 
it sounds as if you have a pretty good handle on this situaton. parental and community involvement will most likely be the key to finding a solution.

the good news is that it is only the one troublemaker with a history, and the rest are just going along for the ride. hopefully when you hit them with the community spotlight they will scatter. better yet convince the community they need something better to do with there time, like different youth leagues, etc. try to get the kids involved in a positive, supervised program.

all of this still could lead to trouble for you and your family. where i live there was one person known to be a barn burner. it seemed anyone who had a serious disagreement with him had something happen to their personal property, with three burned barns being attributed to him. there was never any hard evidence, so he is still on the loose. be prepared. survielance, etc, may catch someone in the act, but may not stop the act itself. visible camera's (or dummies) may deter someone from attacking your home, but your son cannot stay on your property indefinitely. there will always be a time when he is alone. if this person or persons are determined to attack your son or family, there will be an opportunity.

moving has been suggested. i am not one to run away from a fight, but, as with running from a single encounter, sometimes it is the best option. you know your situation. you know the value of your families safety. for me it would depend on the "gangs" attitude, but i would hate to be the one to bug-out after someone where seriously hurt or worse.

a small town should be able to straighten this out. good luck, and let us know how this turns out.
 
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My entire spare time was devoted to full contact kickboxing on a competative level. So does that make me an expert?
Click to expand...

Good question. Competitive = sport.

However, I do agree with your points, many of them, so I'll just mention that many budoka, modern practitioners of any fighting art, do separate sport from self defense, even those in sport should know the difference, and be proud of what they do too.
Both are better than sitting playing video games!

This may not be the best advice, it could get someone killed, in fact its not advice, and your situation may be very different. BUT,

I have been involved in a situation where the group physically assaulted me (beyond threats) twice. The first, a ring of 10 guys of opposite race beat the crap out of me in 8th grade. One reason I was pushed into martial arts training although over the years it really evolved out of that.

The second time I was about 20. The group was much larger, probably 20-30 guys and a few girls, also opposite race, ranging in age from 15 to 19. This is how I handled it, and I was blessed to say the least.

I remarked about how they were p**sies for all having to take me on at the same time, that if they were so bad they should do it one at a time. They went for it. I pointed at someone I thought looked kind of strong, he threw his friend out. In my own mind I considered that I may be about to get beat down but I acted like it was a casual walk in the park wipe this guys face on the floor. It was very short - he threw a lame punch or two and I hit him twice. The bigger guy came out (now HE was on the spot with friends). I hit him in the stomach really hard and knocked the air outta him. At this point it was basically over, they were all laughing at each other and the aggression was somewhat diffused. They could have laid into me at any moment but for whatever reason, the psychology of not being a victim, in this particular instance, worked. Two more guys came out and they weren't even doing anything, again, a few hits, low hi, hi low, side kick. Done. About 30 minutes later a bunch of them came back around and said I was invited to join their gang, to be the first White Guy. I don't even remember what I said, I think ok, I was still coming down from the adrenaline rush.

This had all started cause I choked some guy out wrestling and he went and got all his friends down the neighborhood. Because I worked in a program for some of them I know many had records and the energy of the senario could have gone south fast. It didn't.

Good luck. Psychology counts for a lot. Weight training, wrestling, sports, martial arts, all those can help with that end. The way someone stands and walks (not arrogant mind you) can often do more than any technique, spray, or weapon.

ST
 
Sam,

Seems like you are I are on the same page in thinking about martial arts.

I actually answered the "expert" question in the next word.... No...experienced yes... not an expert. I agree with you on the issue of competative being a sport. There is a huge difference between what you do in competition verses real self defense. Fortunately, my school (instructer HATED the word dojo) entirely focused on practical fighting skills. My instructor wouldn't get into any philosophy, etc.--- saying that you could go to your minister to save your soul, but to go there to learn to fight.

I did competative kickboxing on my own time. I've actually only HAD to use martial arts 4 times in my life--- and one of those times it was MY fault. (ended good though-- we ended up having a few drinks together after the girl blew us BOTH off.)


My point was that it takes time to develop the skills needed--- time it doesn't sound like the poster has at the moment.

John
 
Throw the spotlight on these creeps. Don't just get a push to talk phone get one with a good camera (still or video, with as many pixels as possible) built in as well. Learn how to use it and to send the pictures quickly.

Any time these cretins threaten, tape or shoot it and mail it ASAP. Let them know that there is evidence not on your person. At the very least should anything happen there's photo/video evidence conveninetly time & date stamped waiting in an inbox somewhere that can be used in court.

You should be able to at minimum with that evidence get restraining orders. with restraining orders the police will be compelled to arrest if it is violated. And you will have evidence of the violation thanks to the phone, right?

Just a thought. I've take Tae Kwon Do and its been great for my confidence and in no small part has kept me out of trouble, but on the street, I'll use every tool at my disposal before going "empty hands."

Remember a street fight like a war is dirty and ugly, there is no such thing as an underhanded tactic so long as you win. And also like a war, gathering of intelligence is more important than most battles themselves.

HTH
 
You might want to consider getting your son a cellular phone with GPS tracking abilities.

I've been playing around with this software on a prepaid Boost Mobile (Nextel) phone:

http://www.mologogo.com/

I picked up the Boost Mobile i415 phone at Target for $29. It came with $10 in service. You'd need the phone and to sign up for unlimited internet at 35 cents/day. Then load the Mologogo application on the phone. You'll need a cable for this, which costs $30 at the Sprint/Nextel store or about $10 online (eBay).

I do have another cellphone for voice -- it just doesn't have GPS and Java built in, so I can't use this software on it.

The beauty of this system is that you'll be able to hop online anytime and see where the phone (and presumably your son) is. For about $10 a month (35 cents/day) it's probably money well spent.

Feel free to PM if you have any questions about the software or installation.

Stay safe.

Steve
Just a happy customer, otherwise not affiliated with Sprint/Nextel/Boost or Mologogo.
 
About restraining orders (former LEO's perspective).
Sometimes they work but often they are just a goad to the person you want kept away.

Mostly what they are good for is so the cops have a solid reason to arrest after the order has been violated. Operative word here... AFTER.

If you get a restraining order don't start thinking there is some magic shield between you and the badguys or you may get a rude and harmful surprise.
 
Restraining orders

ZeSpectre said:

About restraining orders (former LEO's perspective).
Sometimes they work but often they are just a goad to the person you want kept away.

Mostly what they are good for is so the cops have a solid reason to arrest after the order has been violated. Operative word here... AFTER.

If you get a restraining order don't start thinking there is some magic shield between you and the badguys or you may get a rude and harmful surprise.
Click to expand...

Thank you ZeSpectre for the clarification on restraining orders.

I mentioned the book, Dial 911 and Die, in my earlier post for this very reason. And, I'm not trying to malign any police officer, etc., because there are many who are doing a wonderful job of protecting us. I appreciate that.

But at the same time, Dial 911 and Die (available from Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership, www.jpfo.org) by Richard W. Stevens, looks at every State's laws and statutes concerning police 'duty', 'liability', 'immunity', etc. It is an excellent read and you will be, if you didn't know this already, sobered up as to what Police Protection amounts to. They have a general duty to protect the public, but not any specific duty to specific individuals, unless that individual has a 'special relationship' with the police (informant), or has been promised protection, etc.

It is very helpful and a great reminder to deal with things on your own, as much as possible.

I would bring the light of day to all that these punks are doing. I would exhaust every possible avenue of help (school, community, courts, law enforcement, church, etc), but I would most concentrate on what I could do personally to protect myself and my son.

Does it really matter if you could hold the police or courts liable for failing to protect you if your son has already been harmed in some way?

I hope you will keep us posted.

Thanks.
 
BEWARE

I've been following the Latin Kings, MS-18, SUR-13, the Gulf Cartel, MS-13, The Mexican Mafia and their racist supporters such as La Raza, Mecha and Voz de Atzlan invasion of the SW USA for some time now and after last year's "May Day" demonstrations - organizing 1/2 million radicals on the streets in a dozen US cities alarms the Hades out of me. Please review Voz de Atzlan's website: www.atzlan.net MS-13's overall plan is to continue building up strength in America, to bring in more drugs and slaves and to replace law enforcement as the dominant factor on the streets. They intend to rule here as they rule in large swaths of Central America. And there is evidence that these gangs are loosely aligned (though they sometimes do fight each other)

Bear with me bit, please

Russia and China have been supplying small arms into Mexico for decades now and much of it has been tracked into the US. Remember the Norinco Arms Smuggling issue back in 1997? Well, that was only one incident that made public - there have been several. One container was tracked into New Jersey.

At any rate, these weapons are being used by the illegal gang element pouring into the Desert Southwest. The Hispanic/Latin gangs have seriously reduced the number of Crips and Bloods in South Central Los Angeles and the STATED claims made by La Raza and other pro-immigrant groups are to "take back the desert southwest" known as ATZLAN before the Europeans arrived here.

As an aside, what cities did the less well-armed, but equally violent Black gangs all go??? :uhoh:

Okay, back to "your" issue

Why all of this and what has it to do with you?

You may be in more danger than you currently perceive yourself to be in.

All of our border states and the Fed need to wake up to this. Thus far few seem to have taken notice outside of those living in the border states. I'd try to pair up with other organizations who are aware of this and lobby my public officials - including my Congressmen.

I'd also research the gangs listed and see if you can identify any of their tagging and tattoos on the local population. Encourage your neighbors and other parents to do likewise.

I feel your pain. I was approached years ago by some Black Pan-Africans at a convention of some sort when I first moved to Detroit. They wished that I sign a partition for reparations "from the White man" :barf: When I refused he threatened to "'cut my neck off' on the day of the revolution'. I reached out, shook his left hand and drew my blade,pressed it against his belly and told him I'd cut his fvkkin' balls off right now if he doesn't leave me alone. Long story short ,I was politely escorted out of the building by Detroit's finest probably as much as for my safety and causing a small scene. Since that time I've been (a) a great friend with the understanding now retired DPD officer and (b) esepcially aware of any and all groups and/or "gang" (whether perceived or real) activity.

Check your Six.

Keep us posted, please
 
link correction

http://www.aztlan.net


That is the corrected link for Voz de Aztlan.

Chui, you have given lots to consider. Doesn't sound too good for what our government is doing about this problem, or what it should be doing about it.
 
Sounds like you're on the right track. About a decade ago, when I was in my late teens, in my little town of about 20,000 a group of friends and I ended up in a parking lot, in a brawl. No choice. They followed us into the parking lot and blocked our exit. We had size, they had numbers. It all started over a buddy taking exception to an inappropriate lane change on thier part, BTW.

Then another 2 cars come pulling in and out they pile. It's on now. I can see the station atttendant on the phone, and she's freaking out.

One more car pulls up, and I see the whole car lift up as this GREAT BIG dude gets out. He dropped our two biggest guys with one punch each. About this time a big guy we don't even know comes around the side of the station with an ozark tire thumper and goes after thier big dude.

About now we start hearing sirens. They pile in thier cars and off they go, just before the first cruiser comes into sight.

So here we stand, every one of us bleeding all over and the cops are trying to sort it out.

Turns out this was what happened:

Seems thier big dude was a crip with a murder warrant out of California, along with a few of his buddies and they were up recruiting new members. The big guy with the stick that helped us out just happened to see what was up as he pulled in to gas up, and he knew a few of the other guys by sight. So he was pretty sure whos side to jump in on. Looks like we were targeted for an initiation beating from what the cops figured.

Don't know if they ever caught him. But that was the last time I allowed myself to get boxed in by anybody that worries me.

Bottom line-
Be careful. And remember sometimes the wannabes are more dangerous than the real thing due to thier need to prove themselves.

Like others have said though- Get the WHOLE town on your side, and they'll leave. If you all band together, and they take heat EVERY time they step out of line they'll go.
 
A few have posted about this earlier, and it fit me at the time mentioned above.

Make sure your kid has his head on straight. I didn't at that point, and the above post was the result. I grew up a lot that weekend. That marked the last fight I have ever been in. Sorta helped me figure a few things out.

Not saying you have a bad kid. Just make sure that he isn't conrtibuting to it.
 
If none of the above work, there are other alternatives to fight this invasion by an army of goblins.
 
Living in a town with useless gangsters sucks, in my mind all they are good for is target practice or chumming the river, but unfortunatley they have more rights than you do. We deal with crips (Cowards Run In Packs) Varrio, Colonia, Bakers, & a few other smaller gangs. most of ours come from LA thinking that a "hicktown" can't do anything, but they get popped on a regular basis & our cops CAN hit what they shoot at. From experience I can tell you that unless you have superior numbers & superior "back-up" you'll loose in a fight cause those little punks come back again & again. Get the cops involved as well as the community, make it were the gang families don't feel welcome there, if momma & pappa as doing ANYTHING illegal call the cops, get the community watching them. If your son or friends retaliate to them, they will retaliate back, so be prepared. I have wondered what would happen if the whole community beat the gangs & families to pulps, then kicked em out of town??????????????? Cops don't have the facilities to hold 1500 law abiding citizens that got fed up. Keep us informed of what happens.
 
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