Helping value old SAA

[Paddy]

Hi all, I need some help valuing a family revolver. It's an old colt, and my attempt at running the numbers on it with colt, seems to indicate it was made in 1899. This conflicts with the family legend that it was purchased in Kansas in 1880. Of course not having been introduced for another two years past 1880 would also be a conflict on that but hey, it was a long time ago agfter all. Needless to say, it's been in the family a while. It was not purchased by my grandfather, or my great grandfather, but my great great grandfather. Anyway it has all matching numbers, it's chambered in 32wcf and I'm guessing it's a nickel plated model, and most of the nickel is gone. Bore is decent for its age, strong rifling but has some pitting from corrosion I guess. Overall it's tight, great smooth oiled and hasn't been fired since the 50's according to dad.

I'm trying to sort my insurance policy and they want to know a value on this.

What's a value guess?

 

[Paddy]

Pic

 

[Paddy]

Picc

 

[Paddy]

Piccc

 

[Paddy]

Pic4

 

[Paddy]

Pic5

 

[Paddy]

Pic6

 

[CraigC]

I don't know right down to the year but 1899 sounds closer than 1880. The blackpowder/smokeless cutoff is 196,000 just after the turn of the century.

I also can't put a dollar figure on it but it is in great condition for its age. Appears to wear what's left of its original finish with traces of bluing left. No signs of refinishing. A great old blackpowder Colt with the potential of being worth several thousand dollars.

 

[rcmodel]

It has the Smokeless frame base pin latch, so it has to be later than 1896.

Value is all over the place, but for insurance purposes, I'd probably say $3,000 or more.

rc

 

[Jim K]

The gun is a regular SAA of that period (1899). That, plus its general condition and the caliber put it out of the high value category. I would put the retail value at about $2500 and insure it for $3000. But let's see what others say.

Jim

 

[Paddy]

Colt approved the use of smokeless in 1900, and if this is truly a 1899 then it's "not approved". So do you think by the looks of it that is true or can I load some soft shooting grandma loads using smokeless?

 

[Cowhide Cliff]

From the prices I see them go for I'd guess it at somewhere around 2500-3000 dollars. It does appear to be in great shape.

I wouldn't shoot anything but black powder in it. No since in taking chances on something of that value not counting the fact of it being a family heirloom.

 

[Paddy]

Yeah I've already got some 3F powder on the way and I'll try my hand at that type of loading. Thanks for y'alls input. I bet if greatgreat grandpa knew how much this pistol is worth now he'd choke! I wonder what he paid for it?

 

[Arkansas Paul]

I would contact Colt and get a letter on it.
The letter will tell you everything about it including what year it was manufactured and what retailer it was shipped to.

I believe it costs a little money but I think it would be well worth it.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

If I am reading the SN correctly, 183798, your Colt was made in 1899.

It is true that Colt factory warrantied the SAA for Smokeless Powder in 1900, so you are just under the cut off date. In 1900 Colt felt the steel they were using was strong enough for the pressures generated by Smokless powder. I seriously doubt your Colt has not been fired with Smokeless at sometime over the years, but if it was me I would only load Black Powder ammo for it. But I am used to loading Black Powder ammo.

You are going to want to use a bullet with soft Black Powder compatible bullet lube, you will probably get hard fouling if you use modern bullets lubed with modern hard lubes. Fill the case with just enough powder so that the bullet compresses it about 1/16" when you seat the bullet. Do not leave any airspace. You can use regular primers, you do not need Magnum primers or anything fancy.

 

[Hondo 60]

Ark. Paul is right - a letter from Colt would help clear up the mystery of the family story.

http://www.colt.com/Catalog/ArchiveServices.aspx


(In my family, stories leave out the truth - not saying yours is like that, just that stories can be just that - just stories)

 

[Gordon]

with the market the way it is today you would struggle to get my assessment of $3000

 

[Paddy]

Yes families do change the truth, and I'd be lying if I said mine wasn't, especially since they are claiming the gun was purchased before being invented. But all that aside, what is the thoughts on powder coating bullets for black powder use rather than use lubes? I've had luck with it in my other loadings, and I'd like to keep the theme going with this loading too unless there's a reason not to.

Re:colt letters, I'd like that but they seem to want 100$ for the service and while that's not unreasonable I may have to wait and treat myself to that later, as I'm trying to raise funds for a "real" revolver right now.

 

[Hondo 60]

Can't say I've ever heard of a report of coated bullets & black powder.
Might work fine, but might cause a gooey mess too.

My ?? is, would the heat of the black powder exceed the limit of the coating?
I don't know the answer, so I don't think I'd try.

Unless one of the regulars here (think high post count) says otherwise.

C'mon rcmodel, Walkalong, Archangel & others, what are your thoughts on this?

 

[CraigC]

I'm struggling with some of the quoted prices here. I've seen SAA's in a lot worse condition go for more money. In a 10 second search, I found this 1st generation .45 that's already bid up to $3000. Yes, it has ivory. Yes, it's a more desirable chambering (the .32-20 was extremely popular and is a whole lot more desirable than those you can't feed!). But it's also REFINISHED and that makes a huge difference.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=529255825

Here's a refinished, over-polished, cobbled together Frontier Sixshooter for $3500.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=526992716

Here's a later .32-20 with its original finish at $6500 (probably a wee bit optimistic).

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=530231936

A pitted .41 for $2900.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=529299455

A later .32-20 you can buy now for $4250.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=529408816

A refinished .44-40 for $3500.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=529899174

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

with the market the way it is today you would struggle to get my assessment of $3000

Well, that depends on how you were to sell it. If you were to consign it to one of the reputable auction houses, not the online auctions, you would get a good return.

Regarding the letter, yes, lettering a SAA will cost you $100. That's what it cost the last time I lettered one. You will find out the condition the revolver was in when it left the factory; Caliber, Barrel Length, Finish, Type of grips, where and when it shipped. You might also find out something interesting. I found out my 7 1/2" barreled 2nd Gen originally left the factory with a 12" barrel, then it was returned within a year and rebarreled. You may or may not find out something interesting.

P.S. $100 for a letter is always a good investment with an old Colt. It did take several months before I got my letter.


The SAA was first bought by the Army in 1873, so your family story is not out of keeping with the history of the gun, however it shipped in 1899.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Can't say I've ever heard of a report of coated bullets & black powder.
Might work fine, but might cause a gooey mess too.

My ?? is, would the heat of the black powder exceed the limit of the coating?
I don't know the answer, so I don't think I'd try.

Unless one of the regulars here (think high post count) says otherwise.

19th Century cartridges loaded with Black Powder used soft bullet lubes.

I have been loading 45 Colt, 45 Schofield, 44-40, 44 Russian, and 38-40 with Black Powder and SPG lubed bullets (soft BP lube) for years. Yes, the lube melts as the bullet goes down the bore. It is supposed to. If you use BP with normal hard bullet lubes you will probably wind up with hard caked fouling in the bore which is very difficult to remove.

 

[bobinoregon]

I shoot light loads of cast bullets over Trailboss out of my mid 1870's .45 I don't like dealing with the cleanup from black powder personally. For as little as I shoot grandpas pistol a bottle of Trailboss goes a long ways.

 

[Cowhide Cliff]

Yeah I've already got some 3F powder on the way and I'll try my hand at that type of loading. Thanks for y'alls input. I bet if greatgreat grandpa knew how much this pistol is worth now he'd choke! I wonder what he paid for it?

I would use cast lead bullets. I use the Lyman 311008 bullet for 32-20. If you don't cast you can buy them from Buffalo Arms.

 

[smkummer]

I would have no problem shooting current smokeless loads out of that gun which most loads are in the 17,000 CUP or PSI range. Since it was originally designed to be bored out to 45, boring it for 32 leaves a lot of metal in the chambers and barrels. I am just now reloading for 32-20 in a 1920's Colt police positive special which leaves a fair amount of metal also in reserve as it was originally designed for 38 special. Colt went to steel instead of iron in the SAA sometime in the 1880's. The cross pin replaced the screw for cylinder retention in about 1896 and those guns were for years considered the smokeless powder guns. It is doubtful that anything changed from 1899 to 1900 when Colt announced the guns safe for smokeless powder. Your gun and your call.