Here's why Ron Paul can't win.....

[ServiceSoon]

Patriot Act has effected me

For all the bitching about the Patriot Act, has it really affected anyone's life... at all? I can't think of one way in which it has affected mine. Or because I'm not alarmed, am I not paying attention? I think when Libertarian ghosts haunt a building, they say, "Patriot Act" instead of "Boo".

I have been personally effected by the Patriot Act. When I was trying to get my fiancé on my bank account there was extra paperwork to fill out and intrusive questions asked. These forms and questions were very invasive and in my opinion took away essential privacy and liberty. I asked why I had to do this and was told it’s because of the Patriot Act. I have also heard that if you are an individual that makes a bank transaction for more than $10,000 you will be put on a watch list. We are all affected by this Act, we just don't notice it. You will always be blind to something until you know what you are looking for.

 

[seektruth]

Yep, the Patriot Act is enabling the government to invade honest citizens' privacy more than before it was passed.

 

[Autolycus]

Originally posted by Prince Yamamoto:
For all the bitching about the Patriot Act, has it really affected anyone's life... at all? I can't think of one way in which it has affected mine. Or because I'm not alarmed, am I not paying attention? I think when Libertarian ghosts haunt a building, they say, "Patriot Act" instead of "Boo".

Well how many people were affected by the AWB or the Brady Bill? Thats like saying its ok to ban semi-auto weapons as I am a hunter and don't use them. Or lets ban handguns as I have no use for it. Just because it doesnt affect you NOW does not mean that it will not affect you LATER.

 

[Titan6]

Who is effected by the Patriot Act?

EVERY SiNGLE ONE OF US.

Picture this:
Tomorrow you wake up and you have no insurance. No auto, health, life, property whatever.... (oh and by the way you still pay the bills)

Nothing has changed in your life until you wreck your car, your house burns down or you die. And then suddenly you have nothing. So long as you labor under the false illusion that it can not happen to you... you have nothing to worry about....

Your rights have been stripped away and you know it not. But the day you need those rights it will be too late....

 

[hankdatank1362]

I have also heard that if you are an individual that makes a bank transaction for more than $10,000 you will be put on a watch list.

I don't think that has anything to do with the Patriot Act, b/c I've been hearing that for years before G.W. was even the prez. I could be wrong, though.

 

[ceetee]

Bear, if you're reduced to picking on simple and obvious typos, rather than arguing on the merits, perhaps you ought to re-think your position.

You gotta admit... It's pretty funny when a poster cracks on all the idiots in the world, and mis-spells the word "idiot"...

On topic, I certainly hope the rank and file Republicans can put aside their fear of the evil "libertarians" long enough to get behind Paul. He seems to be the only rational candidate I've heeard about for years. Out of everyone in the running as of now, he defintely seems to be the best choice...

 

[High Planes Drifter]

I am also strongly opposed to the prohibition on gay marriage. How is it the business of the government to regulate whether 2 two people, of any gender, get married or not? Marriage is a religious institution and ideal, not a government one.

You're right; in my oppinion consenting adults should be able to mary whomever they choose. Allow me to go one further; if old school Mormon belief is for a man to take on more than one wife, shouldnt he be able to do so, as long as the bride is a consenting adult? Isnt denying Mormons that right an intrusion/restraint into thier religious practice and belief?

For all the bitching about the Patriot Act, has it really affected anyone's life... at all?

Why yes, yes it has. I mean, it hasnt altered my life in a catastrophic way like a serous car wreck or accident, but I know its there. Its an unnecessary intrusion into my private life. Look, I dont wear a tin foil hat, or subscribe to the theory that 9/11 was a govrnment conspiracy; but I do feel that the federal government meddles too much in private affairs. Hell, you and me may be on a watchlist simply for posting on this board, or buying ammo online. I think thats wrong, and I dont think Im being overly paranoid for feeling that way.

I can't think of one way in which it has affected mine. Or because I'm not alarmed, am I not paying attention?

The ban on gay marriage doesnt affect me, Im married to a wonderfull woman. I still know the ban is wrong.

 

[BigG]

Hey - I see where you are coming from - and you - and you - and you, over in the corner. Until the liberaltarians come up with some actual solutions and stop with the "we'd do it better than they do" mantra maybe they will gain some credibility. BTW, unless I'm mistaken, Ron Paul has an "R" after his name in congress. So he can't be a lib because that would be lying, a practice repugnant to libertarian ethics.

 

[antarti]

"Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do."
--Rudy Guiliani

In other words, freedom means doing what you're told.

Hey now, you should take the entire quote, so you'er not putting words in Rudy's mouth (italics mine):

We look upon authority too often and focus over and over again, for 30 or 40 or 50 years, as if there is something wrong with authority. We see only the oppressive side of authority. Maybe it comes out of our history and our background. What we don't see is that freedom is not a concept in which people can do anything they want, be anything they can be. Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do.

 

[Titan6]

Paul is at odds with the libs on abortion, immigration and getting rid of the whole military. These are key issues for the libs. There may be more but these are the only ones I know of.

He is more at odds with the repub platform but he has never signed on to anything he has disagreed with.

 

[StopTheGrays]

I know very little about Rep. Ron Paul. Has he ever introduced a bill which was later signed in to law?

 

[Titan6]

I know very little about Rep. Ron Paul. Has he ever introduced a bill and had it signed in to law?

Introduced? Tons. Just look at this year. Signed into law well... Read the bill titles first and you might see the issues.

May 17, 2007 H.R. 2387: To prohibit the use of Federal funds for any universal or mandatory mental health screening program.

May 2, 2007 H.R. 2117: To amend the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act concerning foods and dietary supplements, to amend the Federal Trade Commission Act concerning the burden of proof in false advertising cases, and for other purposes.

May 1, 2007 H.R. 2096: To sunset Federal laws and regulations which treat the American people like children by denying them the opportunity to make their own decision regarding control of their bank accounts and what type of information they wish to receive from their banks, and for other purposes.

Apr 17, 2007 H.R. 1899: To amend part A of title XVIII of the Social Security Act to clarify that facilities designated as critical access hospitals may use beds certified for such hospitals for assisted living.

Apr 17, 2007 H.R. 1898: To amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to allow individuals a credit against income tax for medical expenses for dependents.

Apr 17, 2007 H.R. 1897: To protect the second amendment rights of individuals to carry firearms in units of the National Park System, and for other purposes.

Mar 27, 2007 H.R. 1720: To amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to exclude from gross income amounts received on the sale of animals which are raised and sold as part of an educational program.

Feb 16, 2007 H.R. 1146: American Sovereignty Restoration Act of 2007

Feb 15, 2007 H.R. 1096: Second Amendment Protection Act of 2007

Feb 15, 2007 H.R. 1095: Taxpayers' Freedom of Conscience Act of 2007

Feb 15, 2007 H.R. 1094: Sanctity of Life Act of 2007

Feb 14, 2007 H.R. 1060: Professional Educators Tax Relief Act of 2007

Feb 14, 2007 H.R. 1059: Teacher Tax Cut Act of 2007

Feb 14, 2007 H.R. 1058: Hope Plus Scholarship Act of 2007

Feb 14, 2007 H.R. 1057: Education Improvement Tax Cut Act

Feb 14, 2007 H.R. 1056: Family Education Freedom Act of 2007

Feb 13, 2007 H.R. 1009: Industrial Hemp Farming Act of 2007

Jan 12, 2007 H.R. 457: Cures Can Be Found Act of 2007

Jan 11, 2007 H.R. 424: To repeal the Military Selective Service Act.

Jan 5, 2007 H.R. 300: We the People Act

Jan 4, 2007 H.R. 220: Identity Theft Prevention Act of 2007

Jan 4, 2007 H.R. 219: Social Security Preservation Act of 2007

Jan 4, 2007 H.R. 195: Seniors' Health Care Freedom Act of 2007

Jan 4, 2007 H.R. 194: Prescription Drug Affordability Act

Jan 4, 2007 H.R. 193: Make College Affordable Act of 2007

Jan 4, 2007 H.R. 192: Social Security Beneficiary Tax Reduction Act

Jan 4, 2007 H.R. 191: Senior Citizens Tax Elimination Act

Jan 4, 2007 H.R. 190: Social Security for Americans Only Act of 2007

Jan 23, 2007 H.Con.Res. 43: Expressing the sense of Congress that the President should implement Recommendation 9 of the Iraq Study Group Report.

Feb 7, 2007 H.J.Res. 23: Proposing an amendment the Constitution of the United States relative to abolishing personal income, estate, and gift taxes and prohibiting the United States Government from engaging in business in competition with its citizens.

Jan 12, 2007 H.Res. 63: Amending the Rules of the House of Representatives to ensure that Members have a reasonable amount of time to read legislation that will be voted upon.

See the problem? See a trend? More freedom, less taxes, more responsible government, less intervention in foreign affairs.

Everything the status quo hates. Why would they back this? Less power? Less resources? Less control? More reponsible government? Who would want these things? Oh yeah...me.

Copies of the bills can be found here:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/person.xpd?id=400311&tab=bills

 

[Oohrah]

The bank most likely misspoke on the reason for paperwork!
This has been in effect many years now,and is an IRS thing
to track money laundering by organized crime etc.

 

[ArmedBear]

Bear, if you're reduced to picking on simple and obvious typos, rather than arguing on the merits, perhaps you ought to re-think your position.
__________________
Be cruel. Make someone think.

Oh, the irony's getting hotter.

Did you not read your own sig line?

There are no "merits" to argue. The mantra of a certain class of Libertarians for FAR too long has been, "That we only get less than 1% of the votes has nothing to do with us. It's because over 99% of Americans are idiots!"

If you can't see the problem with that, or what I was poking fun at, you surely don't deserve your own sig.

Like I said before: keep 'em coming!

Since this thread has nothing else to recommend it, at least it's damned funny.

 

[Thin Black Line]

Wow....great thread.....:banghead:

Here we go:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Defeatism

Let's all demand amnesty boxes be placed in front of all government offices and
begin dropping off our EBRs now while the price of gas is still relatively cheap.
We'll save money in the long run, right?

 

[ArmedBear]

TBL, here's one for you!

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/quixotic

Caught up in the romance of noble deeds and the pursuit of unreachable goals; idealistic without regard to practicality.

Defeatism does not mean "pick your battles, and win them!" unless, of course, you're a Libertarian.

If we really think 99% of Americans are idiots, then we ought to be doing what the real political parties are doing: getting the idiots to vote for us. It shouldn't be so hard to get a bunch of idiots to vote for you, right? If it is, then who are the real idiots?

 

[Titan6]

I wanna play... let me do Bear:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/status quo

status quo

The existing order of things; present customs, practices, and power relations: “People with money are often content with the status quo.” From Latin, meaning “the state in which.”

 

[Johnnybgood]

Back on topic. No matter what anyone else says I will vote Ron Paul! Shoot even if he doesn't win the primary I may write him in. I am done voting for the lesser of two evils.

 

[ArmedBear]

Titan6-

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/irrelevant

having no probative value upon any issue in the case.

And this from Johnny:

Back on topic. No matter what anyone else says I will vote Ron Paul! Shoot even if he doesn't win the primary I may write him in.

How exactly is that on topic? I read the thread title and I can't see it. True, maybe, but on topic, no.

Keep 'em coming.

 

[Titan6]

Hardly. What you want is more of the same. What many people want is more of the same.

That way they do not have to work so hard or think too hard or be have too many freedoms to deal with that they do not know what to do with. What Paul wants is for the status quo to go away. Highly relevant.

 

[Biker]

Pragmatism has gotten us where we are today. I believe I'll go kick the dog crap out of a couple o' windmills.

Biker

 

[ArmedBear]

One more thing, hopefully on topic.

The thread started with the premise that Paul can't win because many conservatives don't some of what he says or stands for, and/or don't take him seriously.

I don't know if it's true. I'd like to see someone refute that premise, not babble about the Libertarian boogeyman. The conservative who compared us with Michael Moore was dead-on, even if he's wrong about a lot of things.

Can anyone really address that? Can anyone suggest how Paul can win without real support from either side of American politics?

I want to know. He needs to know.

 

[ArmedBear]

Hardly. What you want is more of the same. What many people want is more of the same.

That way they do not have to work so hard or think too hard or be have too many freedoms to deal with that they do not know what to do with. What Paul wants is for the status quo to go away. Highly relevant.

Titan, you don't know me, and you surely don't know what I want.

And you're just repeating the same mantra: people don't want to vote us because they're lazy, stupid little slaves. Your strategy has failed.

Show me how Paul can win, rather than making up stories about me to justify your proven losing strategy. That is the topic, I think.

Seems like all you want to do is build your ego up, not win any battles. That's what we've been doing for too long. Self-congratulatory babble, mixed with a general disdain for humanity, instead of strategy, is not going to win anything.

Want to change the status quo? Gotta get in a position to do so.

BTW I was at a Libertarian convention, and someone got up and said these things. They were practically booed off stage by people who pride themselves on their use of "reason." I didn't boo, but I was caught up in the attitude, too. I recognize now that I was wrong.

 

[geekWithA.45]

Biker, I don't know so much as to whether it's pragmatism, or lack of realistic alternatives, given the libertarian penchant for marginalizing and beclowing themselves.

I don't want doctrinaire, ideologically pure libertarians who don't have an ice cubes chance in hell.

I want the upgrades.

I want the smart, pragmatic libertarians who aren't afraid to get a little dirt on their lilly white ideological hands in order to get some progress for liberty.

This is much preferable to the 40 years of inneffectual tire spinning in the mud of politics.

 

[ArmedBear]

the libertarian penchant for marginalizing and beclowing themselves

You gotta admit, though, geekWithA.45, that nobody else has such a damned high opinion of themselves for doing these things. Libertarians are good at SOMETHING, anyway.