Hey Newbies , plan on buying you're 1st semi auto?

[9mmepiphany]

For instance if your a NEWBIE target shooter & your comparing three different target handguns that are all of equal quality, one of the three fits YOUR hand perfectly. You will shoot that one more accurately than the other two.


TRUE or FALSE?

As a instructor, I can tell you that this is usually false...especially for a new shooter...because they don't really understand how it should feel in their hand. That is why most folks put on grips which are too large for their hands...it gives them more to hang onto. It makes them more comfortable, but not more accurate.

How comfortable a gun feels in your hand is highly overrated for new, casual or hobby shooters. It is much more important for an Olympic class shooter...but only when that bullet that strays out of the X-ring, into the 10-ring, would make a difference.

The other point I would disagree with is excessive practice without formal instruction. The oft quoted Practice Makes Perfect is just that..oft quoted. That doesn't make it true.

Practice Makes Permanent. So if you not using correct technique to begin with, you'll make those bad habits permanent...which might easily take 1000 rounds to break/overcome

 

[triplebike]

As a instructor, I can tell you that this is usually false...especially for a new shooter...because they don't really understand how it should feel in their hand. That is why most folks put on grips which are too large for their hands...it gives them more to hang onto. It makes them more comfortable, but not more accurate.

How comfortable a gun feels in your hand is highly overrated for new, casual or hobby shooters. It is much more important for an Olympic class shooter...but only when that bullet that strays out of the X-ring, into the 10-ring, would make a difference.

The other point I would disagree with is excessive practice without formal instruction. The oft quoted Practice Makes Perfect is just that..oft quoted. That doesn't make it true.

Practice Makes Permanent. So if you not using correct technique to begin with, you'll make those bad habits permanent...which might easily take 1000 rounds to break/overcome

I agree they should have some sort of instruction from an experienced shooter. But lets deal with the real world here, most newbies don't take a class before they purchase a firearm. If they buy a handgun that feels comfortable, there a better than average chance that that handgun is a better fit than one that doesn't.

Most newbies that are changing their grips on a new 1st weapon are doing it because they purchased the wrong gun to begin with. They are trying to make their uncomfortable handgun comfortable. They were given recommendations by friends or they listened to someone at their LGS , internet forum or the like.

As a newbie the handgun that was most recommended to me was a Glock. When I picked one up & held it in my hand it contorted my hand in such a way that it almost hurt. There is no way I would ever be able to fire that gun as accurately.

When I was looking to purchase my 1st firearm , I visited just about every gun shop in a 50 mile radius of my home. I lost count of how many handguns I held before I fired my 1st shot. If I couldn't get it to be comfortable in my hand it got eliminated. That's just common sense.

When I did find one that fit me it was so drastic of a difference that even the newbie that I was, I was able to understand the difference. Everything we do evolves around the proper fit.

 

[9mmepiphany]

You asked a simple question, expected a certain answer and now you are put off that your preconceived answer isn't universal. Why are you so invested in the fit of a gun being so important when folks with decades of experience have independently verified that it isn't?

Most new shooters equate fit with a intuitive feel for the gun in their hand, they think they should be using their thumb(s) to lock down their grip for a more secure hold and they think that the correct way to shoot is to bring more muscles into play to control a gun in recoil. All these beliefs are incorrect technique and have an impact on how a gun would/should fit in your hand to aid in shooting more accurately and more rapidly

 

[Jaymo]

Militaries and police departments issue guns based upon price and politics.
I would never pick a gun based on that criteria.
If military testing were so thorough, the Bradley would have never been used.

 

[jfrey]

I think the OP's suggestions were well intended but maybe due a little tweeking.
I've helped several friends get into shooting and I just load up my ramge bag with different types and calibers of guns and take them to the range to try them out. I just let them shoot what ever they want until they find something they like. I normally even supply my ammo for the first session. Once they decide on the type and caliber that suits them it is off to the LGS to see what sort of a deal they can make. Unlike my FIL, I've never bought a gun off the net. I like to hold them in my hand first and pull the trigger before I buy. He has bought several off the net and been very successful doing so.
Some folks drive cars and some of us drive pickups. Guns are no different. What I like may not suit the next person. That's why you need to try before you buy.
As far as 1000 rounds through a selected pistol, I reload and own only three that didn't get that much in short order anyway.

 

[9mmepiphany]

But lets deal with the real world here, most newbies don't take a class before they purchase a firearm.

I've had clients ask which gun they should buy before their class with me...and I always just tell them not to buy anything. They can use what I have, if they'll supply the ammo.

I've also had clients, who after some instruction, have immediately gone out and sold the gun that felt so good at the gun store and buy one that would shoot better for them.

I'll even let folks having problems at the range, when I'm practicing, try out my gun if I see what they are shooting just isn't working for them.

There are a lot of ways to get some trigger time before buying. Ranges with rental guns really offer a lot of options, but without correct technique, the choice is still complicated

 

[triplebike]

Ok, we can just agree to disagree.

I believe that the average Joe, just like me will be better served if they purchase their 1st handgun based on comfort & fit, rather than buying their 1st handgun based on their friends recommendation or by how many reply's they get on an gun internet forum. if the gun is uncomfortable & they're fidgeting with their hand to get comfortable they are not going to be able to fire than weapon as accurately.

 

[9mmepiphany]

...especially if they resist getting instruction on the correct technique.

I will offer one of my early experiences with both friend's recommendations and gun fit.

For years...before the days of the internet (although it would have told me the same thing)...friends and serious shooters had told me that one of the finest 9mm semi-automatics pistols available was the Browning Hi-Power. I went to a store to fondle one and it felt great in the hand...well, except for that itty-bitty thumb safety.

I just could never get it to shoot anything I'd call a group. But I didn't give up, I actually went through 3 different Hi-powers still believing that the great fit must mean the gun was shootable...I was wrong all three times. Many years later, after changing my shooting style 2-3 times, I finally found one that I could make group...but by then the desire to own another one had worn off

 

[ku4hx]

Bought my first handgun in 1967 ... Ruger Blackhawk. Over the decades I've bought many more and kept them all. Some were easy to shoot immediately, some took a little time. And that covers .380 Auto right up through 454 Casull. To this day some I shoot better than others. Amazing.

Buying a gun that "fits" you is kind of like buying the right size shoes, they may feel good in the store but after a full day of wearing that new feel just isn't so comfortable. But with a little usage, some small adjustments (maybe thinner socks) they all wear in and feel good.

The trick is to understand the process.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

I agree proper hand fit isn't the same as comfort. A "fleaweight" (as I like to call them) .357 Mag. revolver feels "comfortable" ... until you actually touch off a round. But the gun still needs to fit your hand. Surely you don't mean, for example, that you can shoot a long stroke DAO well if the reach is so long that you have to pull with the tip of your finger, or hold it off center so you can get more of your finger around the trigger. And, the gun should "point" reasonably close to where your sights line up.

 

[easyg]

2nd buying a handgun on an internet gun forum recommendation is also foolish.

I disagree with this notion.

Learn from other's mistakes.
Life is too short to make them all yourself.

 

[triplebike]

So if a Newbie post a new thread something like; Hey guys I want to buy my 1st 9mm semi auto , which one should I buy?

And the above thread gets 45 replies, the most recommended handgun accounts for 30 of those 45. Then it's a wise choice for the newbie to buy the 30 replied handgun. That's nuts!

Newbies, use the internet to gain information & to educate, but you should never purchase a handgun because a bunch of fanboys say so.

 

[MCgunner]

I disagree with this notion.

Learn from other's mistakes.
Life is too short to make them all yourself.

But, there are lots of brand fanboys out here in the internet. One man's fave might be another man's POS just because it ain't American made or just ain't HIS brand. If you're a newb, you have to sift through all this CRAP, which is just what it is, worth what you pay for it just like the fanboys MIGHT say about THEIR favorite brand, being as it's usually a way expensive brand and not what I'd call entry level in any case.

For instance, I LOVE my Taurus revolvers, great guns. What would YOU say to THAT? I love my Rugers, great guns, many dis 'em... the fanboys of other brands which shall remain nameless do. Cast vs forged (never mind MIM ) and big and bulky vs slim and less strong, etc. The battle goes back and forth. You expect a newb to get in to this sort of discussion not knowing a THING about guns or gun design?

 

[ku4hx]

When I was a "newb" I wish someone had said these things to me:

Shoot many; buy one.
Start less powerful and work up.
No gun will be absolutely perfect for you ... ever.
You can shoot any gun well, but some you'll have to work at more than others.
Take your time, it's a process not a single event.
Buy the highest quality you can afford.
Find a competent mentor.
Practice, practice, practice...then practice some more.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Surely you don't mean, for example, that you can shoot a long stroke DAO well if the reach is so long that you have to pull with the tip of your finger, or hold it off center so you can get more of your finger around the trigger. And, the gun should "point" reasonably close to where your sights line up.

There are of course physical limitations of gun size compared to hand size...the largest I've handled were the .44 Mag Desert Eagle and the .44 AutoMag.

But I've seen the mistake of buying based on reach made from both ends of the equation.

Buyers thinking the reach to the trigger was too long - because they were comparing a DA trigger to their finger reach:
1. When they were testing for feel with the trigger was completely released rather than when the slack was taken up
2. When they believed that the trigger properly belonged in the first crease of their trigger finger

Buyers thinking the trigger reach was correct when it was comfortable, but was in fact too short, because the release point was now so far back in the trigger stroke that their finger was compressed pass the point where they could press straight to the rear.

It takes some experience to understand what comfortable really is...it isn't intuitive

 

[Shadow 7D]

When considering guns
buy a gun you like, or suits what you wish to do with it

consider the difference between your 'price point' and the next higher grade is usually less than the cost of one case -1000 rounds- of ammunition
if you plan on shooting the gun often, very quickly the ammo you have sent down range will far surpass what you paid for the gun.

 

[MCgunner]

if you plan on shooting the gun often, very quickly the ammo you have sent down range will far surpass what you paid for the gun.

that would take a while with a .22 and a .22 is ALWAYS a great choice for the beginner for that reason and others.

 

[easyg]

And the above thread gets 45 replies, the most recommended handgun accounts for 30 of those 45. Then it's a wise choice for the newbie to buy the 30 replied handgun. That's nuts!

I would not recommend making a decision based upon a single thread, and I seriously doubt that anyone does.
But if one reads hundreds of threads on lots of different forums and one keeps seeing the same dozen handguns recommended, then it's a good bet that those dozen handguns are not junk and are worth further research or test firing.

....but you should never purchase a handgun because a bunch of fanboys say so.

Not every forum member who recommends a certain handgun to a newbie is a "fanboy".
This is a very condescending view.

 

[el Godfather]

I still think the recomendations I posted early stand.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I still think the recomendations I posted early stand.

I think #3 is hard for a newbie to decide as the common first idea is one for everything.

#4, 5 and 6 really requires some practical knowledge of shooting to make an informed decision

 

[el Godfather]

Well if the idea is one gun for everything then it makes sense in terms of what you stated. Although that does narrow down the list of guns that can do bit of everything, like Glock 17. However, there is a segment of folks who get in to this hobby for some particular reason. Some have threat issues where live, and some where they move or work. In both cases different guns can be advised. Some purely are inspired by the shooting sports, and for them there are different guns. Anyone who gets in to this hobby generally has some motivation and if they write down the list of what's most important use they want to get out of the gun, they can figure out which way to go.

On 4,5,6, your reservations are well taken. However, I would say that there are different sort of folks. Some who don't want to do much research or thinking, and just want to start off with something. Nevertheless, there are those (whom my posted address) who like to make informed decision and want to enjoy the process of buying something for the first time. That's like how I am. To me the process is more enjoyable then the eventual outcome, because in the process I get educated with facts that were not in my knowledge. In any case if they do follow the suggestions I presented I am of the opinion they will most like enjoy their first weapon to it potential.

Regards

 

[meanmrmustard]

I put smaller grips on my pistols more often than not, and find myself comfortable AND accurate. I also agree with the Godfathers observation, minus anything related to a G17

 

[grayhambone]

don't get sucked into brands and prices?
well you want a gun with a good track record (ie internet forums can help) but a gun that will fire everytime you pull the trigger.

 

[triplebike]

don't get sucked into brands and prices?
well you want a gun with a good track record (ie internet forums can help) but a gun that will fire everytime you pull the trigger.

Where in the heck did you pull that comment out of? It wasn't this thread. Unbelievable.

 

[triplebike]

The reason I started this thread was to try & help soon to be new gun owners. I tried to make it as simple as possible for the average person to follow. I've been there, done that.

In the real world I'll bet 80% of the above will not take a class or spend the money on a training course. We can talk about the importance of proper training all we want , but it isn't going to change the fact that most soon to be gun owners are not going to make that investment.

Too many buy their 1st gun because there friend had one, or their friends said that one is the best. When they go on the internet most recommendations they get are going to be our personal favorite & that's not necessarily bad, but it's surely not the way to buy.

I really believe that if they follow the steps I've originally laid out that they will have a better chance of purchasing the right gun for them then if they didn't. Is it perfect, nope, but what is.