High end rifle scopes?!

[Jasper1573]

I have a friend/fellow shooter who has a Sightron SIII in the 10-50x60mm model and he absolutely loves it. Can't remember what he paid for it, but it was around a $1000 plus or minus.

Truthfully, I am not convinced that I need a scope with that much power, but 32x or 42x is in that mid-range between the 20x I have and the 50x that my friend has.

Still studying on it and will eventually make a purchase. I really like the NF MOAR reticle...relatively simple with a lot of internal adjustment as well. Nope, it's not strictly a target scope, but if I am spending that much on a scope, I don't want it to be a uni-tasker...should be able to hunt with it as well. Unfortunately, there isn't one scope that does everything...suppose that why the mfrs. make so many;0)

 

[BillB204]

I thought about this (elevated mounts), but I didn't want to shim or adjust a scope to make it do more than it is truly designed to do.

Most if not all scopes are going to have the reticles close to center of the tube with approximately equal up and down elevation available. The lowest elevation you would likely need would be zeroed at about 200 yards. Assuming an 80 MOA range, the lower 30-35 MOA is wasted. To get the most out of virtually any scope at long range, the best option - and the one used most often - is elevated scope mounts. That way you have most of your elevation adjustment capability going up - and likely no problem at all zeroing to and past 1000 yards. You're not making it do anything it wasn't designed to do.

 

[2000Yards]

2000yrds, he's shooting f-class. why would he want a tactical style scope with FFP, ranging reticles and locking turrets? yeah, i want all that stuff shooting tactical matches, but i don't want any of it on my scope shooting f-class.

Well, you've got me on the FFP and reticle (though the OP did say he wants a Horus reticle). I'd take the locking turrets regardless, but that's just me.

Given the OP's list, what scope would you recommend for f-class (nevermind the Q if you already made a recommendation)? - Ah, gotcha, the Nightforce.

2KYDS

 

[BullfrogKen]

If you want the added flexibility of a reticle suitable for hunting, expect that you are going to pay more for it.

If you stick to something that you'll just use for F-class, you can do fine without a mil-dot reticle if you need to make slight adjustments for wind.

You already know the sizes of the scoring rings. If you want to favor a bit more or less for a change in wind conditions without adjusting your windage, hold that much more or less into the bull.

 

[Tempest 455]

Might consider a Millet LRS. I'm not suggesting it's a NF but they have 140 MOA of internal travel. I've shot mine to 800 yards and it's crystal clear.

 

[Jasper1573]

Purchased a NF 8-32x56 this past weekend...to be delivered on Thursday. It will meet my needs well and last a long time, I hope.

Thanks for all the inputs and advice...they always help to steer me in a better direction.

 

[One_Jackal]

Most rifle competitions spec the equipment you can use. That way it's not a match of the best equipment but the best shooter. They also spec equipment to control cost to shoot.

 

[redneck2]

I know you've already bought the scope, but if you want the 20 moa bases, I've used Burris rings with the floating inserts. You can get them in 0, .010, and .020 (and maybe others) offset.

Nice thing is, they don't leave any marks on the scope. Pull it off and it still looks new. Easy to change if your needs change.

HTH

 

[Hoser]

Most rifle competitions spec the equipment you can use. That way it's not a match of the best equipment but the best shooter. They also spec equipment to control cost to shoot.

Luckily all the matches I shoot dont have any silly rules like that.

 

[BullfrogKen]

Most rifle competitions spec the equipment you can use. That way it's not a match of the best equipment but the best shooter. They also spec equipment to control cost to shoot.

Not really. Not any rifle/any sight. Or F-class.


The specify the characteristics of legal competition rifles for that class.

Now the Service Rifle Division permits very little in modifications.

But others, the sky's the limit. When you I $5,000 Tubb 2000 rifles out on the line, you cannot convince me the equipment race doesn't exist in rifle competition.


Outside the Service Rifle division show me where the equipment is spec'd.

 

[BullfrogKen]

FYI Jackal - NRA High Power Rifle Rules

3.2 Any Rifle - A rifle with no restrictions on sights or accessories including Schuetzen type buttplates and palm rests except that it must be safe to competitors and range personnel. Ammunition will be restricted to no larger than .35 caliber. (Attention is directed to safety fan limitations of various ranges. Individual ranges may further restrict ammunition.). The provisions or Rule 3.16.1 apply to this definition.
(a) See Rule 3.4 and 3.14.
(b) Any rifle not meeting eligibility requirements of 3.1, .3.3, 3.3.1 or 3.3.2 is considered to be an Any Rifle.

3.3 NRA Match Rifle - A center fire rifle with metallic sights and a magazine capable of holding not less than 5 rounds.
(a) See Rule 3.14, Palm Rest.
(b) A service rifle may be used as a match rifle unless otherwise stated in the program. Any service rifle used as an NRA Match Rifle shall conform to Rule 3.1 as applies to trigger pull.
(c) Semi-Automatic rifle. M-16 or commercially equivalent rifles, configured or customized as NRA Match Rifles are exempt from the 4 1/2 pound trigger weight requirement.
(d) Any semi-automatic rifle that has an original factory design receiver/frame in excess of 3 1/4 inches below the center line of the bore may be used as an NRA Match Rifle.
(e) Other Nations - A center fire rifle with metallic sights. This rifle must meet the requirements to be a legal target rifle in the participant’s home country, and may only be used by someone who is a foreign national, and can provide evidence thereof. (It would be wise for a foreign competitor to have a copy of his own country’s rifle rule, or letter of certification from his National Association with him when competing under this rule.)

3.3.1 U.S. Palma Rifle –
(a) A rifle with metallic sights chambered for the unmodified .308/7.62 or .223/5.56 NATO cartridge case.
(b) Any service rifle with metallic sights chambered for the unmodified .308/7.62 NATO or .223/5.56 NATO cartridge case.

3.3.2 NRA Any Sight Match Rifle/Tactical Rifle – Same as NRA Match Rifle Rule 3.3 except there is no restriction as to sights. The following restrictions will apply:
(a) No person firing an any sight rifle under 3.3.2 will be allowed to compete with any other group of shooters who are also firing. A competitor using any sight rifle under Rule 3.3.2 will only be eligible for awards in their own division.
(b) Bipods may be attached but not utilized. Ammunition will be restricted to no larger than .35 caliber.

3.7 Sights
(a) Metallic -
(2) Corrective Rear Sight -Any sighting system constructed of metal or equivalent which provides a method of aiming or aligning two (2) separate but visible sights or reference points, mounted on the rifle including tube sights and non-magnifying filters except that a lens or system of lenses, not containing an aiming reference or reticle at the focal plane or any side lens or system of lenses may be included in such system. A corrective lens may be placed inside the rear sight hood on service rifle conforming to Rule 3.1. No part of the lens or method of installing the lens may protrude outside the rear sight hood.

 

[BullfrogKen]

F-Class rules -

3.4 F-Class Rifle -
(a) F-Class Open Rifle (F-0) - A rifle restricted to a bore diameter no larger than .35 caliber. (Attention is directed to safety fan limitations of various ranges. Individual ranges may further restrict ammunition), “Rail guns” and positive mechanical methods of returning to the precise point of aim for the prior shot are not permitted. Any safe, manually operated trigger is permitted. Any sighting system is permitted, but it must be included in the rifle’s overall weight.

The provisions of Rules 3.16 and 3.16.1 apply to this definition.

(1) The rifle’s overall weight, including all attachments such as sights and bipod, must not exceed 10 kilograms (approximately 22 pounds). An “attachment” also includes any external object, other that the competitor and apparel, which recoils or partially recoils with the rifle, or which is clamped, held, or joined in any way to the rifle for each shot, or which even slightly raises with the firing of the rifle from the rests).
(2) The width of the rifle’s forend shall not exceed 76mm (approximately 3 inches).
(3) The rifle must be fired in the prone position from the shoulder of the competitor using rifle rests as defined in Rule 3.4.1(a).

(b) F-Class Target Rifle (F-TR) - A rifle restricted to the chambers of unmodified .308 Winchester/7.62mm NATO or unmodified .223 Remington/5.56mm X 45 NATO cartridge cases. The rifle must be fired off a bipod, rigidly attached to the rifle’s for-end, and/or a sling. Any bipod, meeting the definition of a bipod, may be used but its weight must be included in the rifle’s overall weight. Any safe, manually operated trigger is permitted. Any sighting system is permitted, but it must be included in the rifle’s overall weight.

The provisions of Rules 3.16 and 3.16.1 apply to this definition.

(1) The rifle’s overall weight, including all attachments such as sights, sling and bipod, must not exceed 8.25 kilograms (approximately 18.18 pounds. An “attachment” also includes any external object, other than the competitor and apparel, which recoils or partially recoils with the rifle, or which is clamped, held, or joined in any way to the rifle for each shot, or which even slightly raises with the lifting of the rifle from its rest/firing point.
(2) The rifle must be fired in the prone position from the shoulder of the competitor using rifle as defined in 3.4.1(b).

As you can see, some of those categories are pretty wide open, and you can spend as much as you want.

 

[Mauser lover]

Wow, I just stumbled onto this competition section of THR, and the first thing that I see is

32x or 42x is in that mid-range

I thought 16x was high power for a scope ...

I am not a competition shooter though, I guess I thought that I didn't need a super high power scope... Guess I do now!

 

[Jim Watson]

Now the Service Rifle Division permits very little in modifications.

There are some modifications allowed and the competitors push them as far as they can.
Without reading the Compass Lake Engineering or White Oak catalog I can think of:
High grade barrel as large diameter as the gas tube will accomodate under the handguards, standard profile only where exposed.
Free float tube under handguards.
Wider front sight blade.
Rear sight rebuilt for finer adjustments and no play.
Trigger smooth and crisp at minimum pull.
Weights in foreend and butt trap.

 

[BullfrogKen]

Jim, you have to admit, compared to the other rifle divisions, Service Rifle modifications are quite limited.

We're not talking about rack grade restrictions, but they're still pretty limited.

 

[Jasper1573]

i have to concur that F-Class has few restrictions on the rifle set up, weight being the primary restriction. Service rifle, however, is much more specific...type of rifle, limit on trigger pull in lbs, and so on.

All are good competitive venues, and $$$ spent on equipment does help in F-Class. I have a friend who has put together a nice F-Class rifle in 308 Win on a Savage action, and he has a Sightron 10-50x60mm scope on top of it...at 1000 yards he can clearly read two inch high mailbox letters that identify his target position, so there is value in the money spent.

Then again, I shoot for the enjoyment of it, not just to win. Winning a match once in a while is nice, but good competitive shooting with others makes me a better marksman.

 

[Jim Watson]

Oh, I agree that Service Rifle modifications are limited relative to other divisions, but there is still a lot of stuff going on in there.

Gotta admire George Farr, toughed it out at Wimbledon with a rifle and ammunition issued on the firing line.

 

[BullfrogKen]

No kidding. What a tale, huh?

 

[Sheepdog1968]

A few months a friend and I were shooting 300 yards. Three weren't many on the range that day so there was plenty of time to talk to those who shot the long distance competitions out to 1000 yards. Leupold was mentioned favorably.

 

[MtnCreek]

Wider front sight blade.

Is this useful for holding wind? Does making the front sight wider make it easier to spot the sight because of the large, black target? I guess you can tell I know nothing about Highpower because this just doesn’t make sense to me.

Thanks.

 

[taliv]

wider front sight is for people over 40 whose eyes have difficulty focusing up close on tiny objects. sharp focus on front sight is critical, so if you have to widen it to see it, it's worth it. you just have to be good at centering the fuzzy bullseye over a wider post

 

[BullfrogKen]

The biggest benefit is it reduces eye strain.

Finding - and focusing intently -on the top, dead center of a wider front sight post is easier then trying to focus intently on the top, dead center of a thin front sight post. The eye muscles actually become fatigued trying to fous that hard on something at roughly arm's length. Now that I'm older I find it affects me the most during the 20 minute slow fire string at 600.

 

[Howard Roark]

The eye muscles actually become fatigued trying to focus that hard on something at roughly arm's length.

The Microsight eliminates this problem. It puts the front post and target in the same focal plane using it's zone plate technology.

You can actually see machining marks in the front post while also seeing a very clear bullseye at all yardages. You have to use your normal perscription glasses if you have them in conjunction with the sight.

 

[Jasper1573]

Received the NF NXS 8-32x56mm scope today. I have a Larue 20 MOA base and Larue rings on my rifle, so I went ahead and mounted the scope today to zero at 100 yards. No issue with objective bell clearing the barrel.

Zeroed the rifle at 100 yards and took it around a box pattern 30 MOA in elev and 10 MOA windage. Tracking was very good.

So here is my question...the NF elevation range is 65 MOA...about 32 MOA up and 32 MOA down. So after I zeroed the rifle at 100 yards, I checked to see how much upward elevation I had remaining on the scope. To my surprise, I only had about 32 MOA of upward elevation remaining. Now, with a 20 MOA rail, shouldn't I have more upward elevation adjustment than that? The scope at a 100 yard zero is in the middle of its elevation adjustment range...I am under the impression that the 20 MOA rail should add 20 MOA to the 30ish MOA scope elevation upward adjstment and give me around 50 MOA.

Can anyone clarify?

 

[atblis]

It is possible the barrel and/or receiver are not true.